Native American legends about the Vikings

[Harte]

11 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Modern Danish is derived from many different sources. It may have its root in old Norse, but it also have a healthy dose of other languages, particularly German, and these days a lot of English aswell. 

As for Danish being barbaric and incapable of higher thought as @Pettytalk seems to think: There are 14 nobel laureates from Denmark. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Nobel_laureates_per_capita

He said the same thing about German. That was a real hoot too.

Harte

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

4 minutes ago, Harte said:

He said the same thing about German. That was a real hoot too.

Harte

Its not like the German speakers ever contributed anything meaningfull to things like science, art and philosophy....... 

[Hanslune]

40 minutes ago, Mellon Man said:

or the latter. 

True - is your excavation going to be a continuation at the site between Peel and Kirk Michael or a new one?

[Mellon Man]

36 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

True - is your excavation going to be a continuation at the site between Peel and Kirk Michael or a new one?

Continuation. 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Mellon Man

[Tatetopa]

2 hours ago, Mellon Man said:

The Eneolithic site is undisturbed, however, better to have no expectations. 

Very best to you.

[Unusual Tournament]

On 4/2/2019 at 4:10 AM, Kenemet said:

I'm sure there are any number of reasons... but the aggressive inhabitants probably wasn't much of a factor.  In general, it was a long and difficult distance away (so no immediate support from the homeland) and there was not a great wealth of desperately needed resources there.  So no one was going to get extremely wealthy from acquiring resources in this area... and that meant it was easy to abandon.

really not so long away from resource poor Greenland and Iceland. timber and animal skins were very much in demand and North America was a perfect spot to exploit. i guess you can only freely exploit an area until the natives fought back and made small expeditions into North America not worth the risk. 

[Kenemet]

On 4/2/2019 at 4:58 PM, Tatetopa said:

Yep.  Many sad parent's underfloor dweller stirs away from his dream viewer only to take up his thumb talker in a twitching   Cheeto scooper.

He taps out a chatter call, thought-treadings  disturbing Ullr's handiwork; the blankness of new snow. on dream viewers far away.  Swifter than the frost bowman's arrow it passes and lasts but a moment before Sif's vigilant son, skillful skater covers in with new snow.

That was (quite literally) epic!  

[Tatetopa]

21 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

That was (quite literally) epic!  

Thanks, missed the word order, should have written vigilant Sif's son.

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

really not so long away from resource poor Greenland and Iceland. timber and animal skins were very much in demand and North America was a perfect spot to exploit. i guess you can only freely exploit an area until the natives fought back and made small expeditions into North America not worth the risk. 

Except we didn't fight the Basque fishermen, Swedish and Finnish Ginseng, sassafras and pelt traders or the Quaker settlers. Just the ones who took the first shot. 

[Unusual Tournament]

2 minutes ago, Piney said:

Except we didn't fight the Basque fishermen, Swedish and Finnish Ginseng, sassafras and pelt traders or the Quaker settlers. Just the ones who took the first shot. 

we don't really know that for sure. i bet if anyone came too close there could have violence from both sides. BTW what do you mean by Swedish and Finnish Ginseng, sassafras? i assume there were traders also around the time of the Vikings? 

[Piney]

13 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

we don't really know that for sure. i bet if anyone came too close there could have violence from both sides. BTW what do you mean by Swedish and Finnish Ginseng, sassafras? i assume there were traders also around the time of the Vikings? 

The Swedes were around in the 1630s. They hired us as guides and mercs (Vilde) too. We have a unbroken treaty with them that's get the U.S. upset. The Basques were here in the 1500s.  

[Unusual Tournament]

1 minute ago, Piney said:

The Swedes were around in the 1630s. They hired us as guides and mercs (Vilde) too. We have a unbroken treaty with them that's get the U.S. upset. The Basques were here in the 1500s.  

what about the French and British didn't use you guy's as guides and Mercenaries during their war? 

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

what about the French and British didn't use you guy's as guides and Mercenaries during their war? 

Both.

 Half my family the Josephs, fought for the Americans and stayed on the Indian River. The other half fought for the British and wound up on the Grand River Reserve.

The hilarity is we still got along with each other even during wartime. 

[Harte]

The Sassafras were a peaceful people with no time for violence with their neighbors.

Most of their time was spent perfecting the heady brew they invented.

IIRC, their territory encompassed several hamlets along the A&W River. They used the river for transporting this product in their Barq canoes.

Harte

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by Harte
by cracky!

[Hanslune]

Came across the Smithsonian published discussion of the Norse visits to NA - written in 1913 so before the evidence of L'Anse Aux Meadows was known - its is interesting as it gives the depth of argument that existed over a century ago.

 

https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=4-0_AAAAYAAJ&pg=GBS.RA1-PA132

[Unusual Tournament]

Not Viking but there are some legends of white and blue eyed Indians. 

https://nativeheritageproject.com/2012/04/29/the-mandan/

Why was John Evans interested in discovering whether or not the Mandan had Welsh words in their language?  That seems rather unusual.  This was not the first report of Welsh Indians however.  In 1608 one of the Jamestown settlers reported that the Mandoag Indians spoke a language that resembled Welsh and he had been asked to interpret.  Later the Tuscarora, called the Doag, included a war captain who spoke Welsh.  A location called Devil’s Backbone about 15 miles upstream on the Ohio River from Louisville, KY was reported to be an ancient home of Welsh Indians.  Fortifications in Georgia and Alabama are also attributed to the Welsh as Indians were not known to use that type of construction.  The Cherokee in Georgia also carried the story of “moon eyed” people matching the descriptions of Europeans having lived in Georgia as well.    

In 1810, John Sevier, the first governor of Tennessee, wrote to his friend Major Amos Stoddard about a conversation he had in 1782 with the old Cherokee chief Oconostota concerning ancient fortifications built along the Alabama River. The chief allegedly told him that the forts had been built by a white people called “Welsh”, as protection against the ancestors of the Cherokee, who eventually drove them from the region. Sevier had also written in 1799 of the alleged discovery of six skeletons in brass armor bearing the Welsh coat-of-arms.

 

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

written in 1799 of the alleged discovery of six skeletons in brass armor bearing the Welsh coat-of-arms.

Brass armor and a Welsh coat of arms?  Sounds a little jinke doesn't it?  

[Unusual Tournament]

53 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Brass armor and a Welsh coat of arms?  Sounds a little jinke doesn't it?  

the armour and coat of arms sounds a little wacky if thats what you're alluding too. but could a group of Europeans have found their way to America and ended up mixing with the locals? yea thats possible. whats jinke? 

[Hanslune]

An image of the reconstructed settlement:

I visited the site in 1987

Edited April 13, 2019 by Hanslune

[jaylemurph]

4 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Brass armor and a Welsh coat of arms?  Sounds a little jinke doesn't it?  

...especially considering the effort the English put into making sure the Welsh didn’t use cultural symbols like coats of arms, or are we pretending undocumented, fictitious pre-Medieval Welshmen made it to the New World?

—Jaylemurph 

[Swede]

8 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Not Viking but there are some legends of white and blue eyed Indians. 

https://nativeheritageproject.com/2012/04/29/the-mandan/

Why was John Evans interested in discovering whether or not the Mandan had Welsh words in their language?  That seems rather unusual.  This was not the first report of Welsh Indians however.  In 1608 one of the Jamestown settlers reported that the Mandoag Indians spoke a language that resembled Welsh and he had been asked to interpret.  Later the Tuscarora, called the Doag, included a war captain who spoke Welsh.  A location called Devil’s Backbone about 15 miles upstream on the Ohio River from Louisville, KY was reported to be an ancient home of Welsh Indians.  Fortifications in Georgia and Alabama are also attributed to the Welsh as Indians were not known to use that type of construction.  The Cherokee in Georgia also carried the story of “moon eyed” people matching the descriptions of Europeans having lived in Georgia as well.    

In 1810, John Sevier, the first governor of Tennessee, wrote to his friend Major Amos Stoddard about a conversation he had in 1782 with the old Cherokee chief Oconostota concerning ancient fortifications built along the Alabama River. The chief allegedly told him that the forts had been built by a white people called “Welsh”, as protection against the ancestors of the Cherokee, who eventually drove them from the region. Sevier had also written in 1799 of the alleged discovery of six skeletons in brass armor bearing the Welsh coat-of-arms.

 

•  

Yes, legends. Just legends.

http://native-languages.org/iaq10.htm

.

[Unusual Tournament]

8 minutes ago, Swede said:

Yes, legends. Just legends.

http://native-languages.org/iaq10.htm

.

the thread is about legends... whats your point? 

[Hanslune]

9 hours ago, Swede said:

Yes, legends. Just legends.

http://native-languages.org/iaq10.htm

.

http://www.languagegeek.com/siouan/mandan_is_not_welsh.html

[Swede]

12 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

the thread is about legends... whats your point? 

The reference speaks for itself.

The proliferation of erroneous information is of no good service to anyone.

.

[Vorg]

You know what is crazy? My Uncle Jim, who is 90 visited my mom and I at the end of March. He was talking about the old farm that my mom and him used to live on in the 30's. He talked about finding a gray stone along the fence line that was buried and about 2 feet high, maybe 16 inches wide and about 6 inches thick and covered in writing that he couldn't understand. Not just a stone, but apparently a carved stone. I was intrigued at what it could be and just thought about it, but didn't say anything. Less than 5 minutes later I found this thread and it was less than 24 hours old.

I called my Uncle Jim back here to my computer to show him this thread after telling him and my mom about it. He became really interested. He said there is a Museum nearby and though the land is now sold, knows the owners and would work with both if possible to find that stone.

I talked to my mom a few day later, and he is back home now and working on it.

It may be an old gravestone, who knows? He couldn't understand the writing. But like the Kensington stone, this stone is in Little Falls, Minnesota roughly 75 miles away. So what it turns out to be, well, I'll keep you updated as my Uncle works on it, but remember he's 90. http://kensingtonrunestone.us/

 

Edit to add: Oh yeah and it is still cold and snowy up there, so that will delay it for a while. I'm basking down here in South Alabama, which is why he came, to get a break from all that.

 

Edited April 14, 2019 by South Alabam