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Captain Risky

Native American legends about the Vikings

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Tatetopa
On 5/22/2019 at 7:03 AM, Kenemet said:

Living and processing in large groups is more efficient.

More resource efficient for sure.  Are there some limiting factors on group size based on human psychology?  Do people who live in large dense groups become more aggressive, or psychotic, or  is their overall mental health or quality of life reduced?  Just wondering.

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Kenemet
31 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

More resource efficient for sure.  Are there some limiting factors on group size based on human psychology?  Do people who live in large dense groups become more aggressive, or psychotic, or  is their overall mental health or quality of life reduced?  Just wondering.

That depends on the society.  Japan, for instance, is arguably less violent in many ways than the United States.

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Hanslune
1 hour ago, Kenemet said:

That depends on the society.  Japan, for instance, is arguably less violent in many ways than the United States.

1920px-Global_Peace_Index.svg.png

Green for most peaceful red for most violent

Global Peace Index (GPI) measures the relative position of nations' and regions' peacefulness

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index

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South Alabam
2 hours ago, quiXilver said:

Little Falls... sigh.  Memories of home.  Sometimes I miss The North Star State.

Know any Hunnels?

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
4 hours ago, Hanslune said:

1920px-Global_Peace_Index.svg.png

Green for most peaceful red for most violent

Global Peace Index (GPI) measures the relative position of nations' and regions' peacefulness

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index

I'm from the fifth most peacefull country and if anyone disagrees I'm gona beat them up !

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quiXilver
6 hours ago, South Alabam said:

Know any Hunnels?

Nope, but we used to do a long summer bicycle camping tour that would take us through little falls some years.

I miss Thunderstorms and Fall the most.  Winter second most.  Dearly miss cross country skiing alone in the woods...

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Jarocal
On 5/21/2019 at 3:39 PM, Kenemet said:

8 billion people "living naturally" would wreak more havoc on the ecosystem than we have going now.  If you think a "simple" lifestyle is eco-friendly, you should do more research.  It's only "eco-friendly" because there are few people on the landscape.

In an "eco-friendly" primitive group, everyone gets up and defecates outdoors in wherever's a convenient place.  Now, imagine a city of a million people where everyone does this every day.  For decades.  Or centuries.  Or they poop and move.  How long before they run out of places to poop?  How much land does it take to have a million tiny farms capable of sustaining a million families?  (It takes about 2.5 acres per person (with enough water) to be able to grow enough vegetables to survive on for a year if the crop doesn't fail... and this doesn't count space for meat animals.  Just vegetables.)  At 8 billion people and climbing, there's not enough land to sustain everyone with a small homestead farm... and that would not leave any space for wildlife or parks or trees, etc.

Not sure where you got the 2.5 acres per person for a years worth of vegetables but I grew/preserved enough for a family of four for the year on far less. What, where, and how things are grown have a large impact on such a statement. 

Prior to the Columbian exchange the native population in the Americas did grow cereal crops such as beans and maize but they also incorporated a various assortment of perennial crops, nuts, and berries into their diet. 

Meat requires a large footprint if you are focused on beef, lamb, goat or chicken as the primary meat source. Changing out cows for a small rapid reproducing herbivore like rabbit or guinea pig immensely reduces the amount of land needed.

Chicken can be fed kitchen scraps and from the environment of a well managed small homestead most of the year with supplemental feed being required for around 100 days per winter in the MidAtlantic region of the U.S. Since that time coincides with the annual decline in egg production that is a good time to cull the majority of the flock.

Solarium additions to the south side of a house (in the northern hemisphere) provide season extension that allows production of appropriate crops almost year round. Some vegetable plants can be grown inside the house in a pot.

I'm not advocating that we should give everyone a small homestead. But the industrialized western diet is an abnormal blip on the radar in how humanity has fed itself even if you start the clock with Sumer.

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Piney
34 minutes ago, Jarocal said:

Solarium additions to the south side of a house (in the northern hemisphere) provide season extension that allows production of appropriate crops almost year round. Some vegetable plants can be grown inside the house in a pot.

 

I have a small one attached to my bedroom and one in our kitchen. Along with the hydroponics tower in the sun room we have fresh salad all year round. :yes:

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Kenemet
46 minutes ago, Jarocal said:

Not sure where you got the 2.5 acres per person for a years worth of vegetables but I grew/preserved enough for a family of four for the year on far less. What, where, and how things are grown have a large impact on such a statement. 

Were you living completely off the grid, there?  The number is an average... certainly on good land (if you can find it) and with good access to water, that's possible.  But, say, in West Texas things would be a mite different.  Ditto Alaska.  Or the Rocky Mountains.  In any case, I sampled a number of sites for th enumber.

Quote

Prior to the Columbian exchange the native population in the Americas did grow cereal crops such as beans and maize but they also incorporated a various assortment of perennial crops, nuts, and berries into their diet. 

Meat requires a large footprint if you are focused on beef, lamb, goat or chicken as the primary meat source. Changing out cows for a small rapid reproducing herbivore like rabbit or guinea pig immensely reduces the amount of land needed.

Chicken can be fed kitchen scraps and from the environment of a well managed small homestead most of the year with supplemental feed being required for around 100 days per winter in the MidAtlantic region of the U.S. Since that time coincides with the annual decline in egg production that is a good time to cull the majority of the flock.

Solarium additions to the south side of a house (in the northern hemisphere) provide season extension that allows production of appropriate crops almost year round. Some vegetable plants can be grown inside the house in a pot.

I'm not advocating that we should give everyone a small homestead. But the industrialized western diet is an abnormal blip on the radar in how humanity has fed itself even if you start the clock with Sumer.

You are assuming ideal condition and that there's no problem with livestock, diseases, insects, etc, etc.  And "supplemental feed" kind of implies you're getting animal chow from somewhere else... not self-sufficient.  And I'm not sure I have enough shelf space to grow all the vegetables I'd like inside my house.

There's a difference between "ideal" and "where I live" and "where people actually live."  

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Jarocal
1 hour ago, Kenemet said:

Were you living completely off the grid, there?  The number is an average... certainly on good land (if you can find it) and with good access to water, that's possible.  But, say, in West Texas things would be a mite different.  Ditto Alaska.  Or the Rocky Mountains.  In any case, I sampled a number of sites for th enumber.

You are assuming ideal condition and that there's no problem with livestock, diseases, insects, etc, etc.  And "supplemental feed" kind of implies you're getting animal chow from somewhere else... not self-sufficient.  And I'm not sure I have enough shelf space to grow all the vegetables I'd like inside my house.

There's a difference between "ideal" and "where I live" and "where people actually live."  

I am in no way assuming ideal conditions. Actually one needs look to what will grow in that environment naturally and look to put in edible plants that will work in those conditions. Concurrent to that one alters the microenvironment over time. There are several different tools that can be used to alter the soil in regards to fertility, moisture level, temperature and composition.

Most diseases in livestock are due to management practices such as too many animals crowded into an area. Manure slurry pits that hold a nutrient rich liquid fecal solution at perfect temperatures to promote bacterial growth.

The amounts of animal chow I brought in over winter were 150 lbs chicken feed, 4 bales of hay. I also brought in bales of straw for bedding. I never stated I was self sufficient. An individual or small family group being completely self sufficient is a pipe dream. 

What one eats in their diet also is a big factor. This time of year I am practically a vegetarian taking advantage of fresh fruits/vegetables in season and preserving surplus. In the winter I eat more meat with the vegetables having been canned, frozen, dried.

 

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Pettytalk
7 hours ago, Jarocal said:

There are several different tools that can be used to alter the soil in regards to fertility, moisture level, temperature and composition.

And let us not forget the one tool to really make the soil fertile, all that BS manure as a fertilizer agent, one at the perfect temperature, in perfect balance, and at the proper time. BS can also stand for Bison ****, and even for Bear ****, or scientifically put, fecal matter, when we are discussing really fertile soil conditions of the Great Plains.

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Hanslune
22 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

And let us not forget the one tool to really make the soil fertile, all that BS manure as a fertilizer agent, one at the perfect temperature, in perfect balance, and at the proper time. BS can also stand for Bison ****, and even for Bear ****, or scientifically put, fecal matter, when we are discussing really fertile soil conditions of the Great Plains.

Yes and from what we've seen you are truly and expert on that subject matter.

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