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and then

Is The Kingdom going nuclear?

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and then
Posted (edited)

https://www.jns.org/images-show-saudi-nuclear-reactor-plant-near-complete/ 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-03/saudi-arabia-faces-nuclear-delays-without-tighter-monitoring

This is the first I've heard of it but thought it would be interesting to discuss.  It seems as plausible to accept this as it would be to accept Iran being nuclear.  Unlike Russia and Iran, however, some American officials don't want to help the Saudis.  What say you?  Should America demand they join the IAEA or just stay out the way as we do with Israel?

Edited by and then
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Piney

All the wind and sun availability there and they want to go nuke...  Nah, they aren't backwards. :lol:

 

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Tatetopa

Is the thought that they will use it to produce power, not their most effective choice as Piney points out or to sneak off enough fuel to enrich for weapons material? 

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Piney
17 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Is the thought that they will use it to produce power, not their most effective choice as Piney points out or to sneak off enough fuel to enrich for weapons material? 

I'm thinking the latter. 

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and then

I think THAT kind of goes without saying, it's kind of the point of the thread ;) 

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Tatetopa

Yeah, I just wanted to be clear, I certainly think bomb development is top of their list.

I believe we have tried to keep a bomb out of Iran's hands.  I know there will be some disagreement on the success of that, but I think our goal is to keep the Middle East non-nuclear.

Iran is currently an adversary and Saudi Arabia is an ally, but I think the culture in Saudi Arabia is even more feudal and repressive than Iran.  I don't think Saudi Arabia has much respect for our culture or form of government.  It seems a rather bad idea for them to have nuclear weapons.  

 

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Jon the frog
8 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Is the thought that they will use it to produce power, not their most effective choice as Piney points out or to sneak off enough fuel to enrich for weapons material? 

No need to sneak off... they are on the ''good'' side of the coins for the US.

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RoofGardener

They're building a reactor. But they have NO ability to source uranium for it. Not until they comply with IAEA inspection protocols.

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Ogbin

I heard about this awhile back. I believe them going nuclear has everything to do with Iran. They want a deterrent against their enemy. 

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aztek

solar and wind is not nearly as effective as nuke. SA is developing at very fast rate,  those tech just can't deliver enough power,  as far as nukes, i'm sure usa would not mind if they developed them openly. (not that they need to) or got  them from someone as Pakistan did. or they may just go israel route, and claim they have no nukes, but they will use them if needed

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Earl.Of.Trumps

If this is a breeder plant (produces plutonium) they should have stated that in the article.  But if Saudi wants a nuke plant, that's their decision. If the don't want to play by the rules, that's what we all get for not making Israel comply.

It's the Middle East. Everything is a cluster %%%%

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and then
14 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

They're building a reactor. But they have NO ability to source uranium for it. Not until they comply with IAEA inspection protocols.

Not legally.  They have literally all the cash in the world, though.  You know what they say about money and talking.  FTR, I think they should be resisted in developing the bomb just as Iran is and basically for the same reason.  Once the house of Saud falls and it eventually will, that would create a situation like Pakistan where we couldn't just sit back and watch insane religious types acquire the Big Fire.  Only one thing is sure about this new attitude toward proliferation that is occurring in the EU, specifically regarding Iran today.  That is that these countries are willing to roll the dice on humanity's future for some extra business today.  At some point, SOMEONE will use one of these damned things.  God help us all on that day.

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Phaeton80
Posted (edited)
On 4-4-2019 at 2:04 PM, RoofGardener said:

They're building a reactor. But they have NO ability to source uranium for it. Not until they comply with IAEA inspection protocols.


Yeah, everyone needs to comply to IAEA inspection protocols.. except ofcourse, Israel (which, FTR, isnt ruled by 'insane religious types', yay!). :rofl:

Edited by Phaeton80
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and then
7 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:


Yeah, everyone needs to comply to IAEA inspection protocols.. except ofcourse, Israel (which, FTR, isnt ruled by 'insane religious types', yay!). :rofl:

Actually, P80, they AREN'T ruled by those types.  Unless you think that the Orthodox crazies are down with the annual gay parades in Tel-Aviv :w00t:   Tool...

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Sir Smoke aLot

If South Africa worked on nuclear arms during time of Apartheid i am kinda surprised that Saudis do not have them already. There are links between South Africa and Israel, regarding nuclear material, also dealings Israel had with North Korea (after which NK sent pilots to fight Israel in 1973). But since Israel is special friend they can do that. 

Reason i mention this is that if Saudis want it they will have it as they are also special kind of friend :D

But jokes aside, being able to bomb civilians for years without any proper criticism or boycott means that you can do what ever you please. Too bad that international law is less worth than paper on which it's written. Europe allowed siege of a city on it's soil to last longer than siege of Stalingrad, even tho Europe said there won't be more wars. It's about who can do what not about what is allowed, unfortunately.

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Phaeton80
Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, and then said:

Actually, P80, they AREN'T ruled by those types.  Unless you think that the Orthodox crazies are down with the annual gay parades in Tel-Aviv :w00t:   Tool...


Actually, AT, I think you, as well as your hero Bibi Netanyahu (lets be honest here, there isnt that much difference) do in fact fall in the 'those types' category.

Crazy huh. ;)

 

Edited by Phaeton80

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and then
6 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Too bad that international law is less worth than paper on which it's written.

When implementing it could cause a nuclear exchange, people tend to comfort themselves with hundreds of outraged resolutions ;)   As to the Kingdom obtaining nukes, they probably already have a deal with Pakistan.  They helped fund Khan's work.

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Hammerclaw
On 4/3/2019 at 9:47 PM, and then said:

https://www.jns.org/images-show-saudi-nuclear-reactor-plant-near-complete/ 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-03/saudi-arabia-faces-nuclear-delays-without-tighter-monitoring

This is the first I've heard of it but thought it would be interesting to discuss.  It seems as plausible to accept this as it would be to accept Iran being nuclear.  Unlike Russia and Iran, however, some American officials don't want to help the Saudis.  What say you?  Should America demand they join the IAEA or just stay out the way as we do with Israel?

Islam already has the bomb. The Saudis having probably been in possession of warheads manufactured elsewhere for quite some time. 

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Golden Duck
On 04/04/2019 at 11:47 AM, and then said:

Should America demand they join the IAEA ...?

How would USA do that. Do the Saudi's have a couple of mates in the UNSC with veto powers?

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Sir Smoke aLot
8 hours ago, and then said:

When implementing it could cause a nuclear exchange, people tend to comfort themselves with hundreds of outraged resolutions ;) 

It seems realistic i agree but on the other hand it makes UN so weak and also conflicts with it's charter. Truth is, whoever use nukes in war or in retaliation that country will cease to exist, one way or the other. This is different time and environment than WW2. 

Even if some conflict arise it's still hard to make a case in which anyone could use nukes without having to pay greatly for it, maybe there would be great economical and political isolation of that country. This does feel a bit naive but i still do have some hope in humanity.

9 hours ago, and then said:

 As to the Kingdom obtaining nukes, they probably already have a deal with Pakistan.  They helped fund Khan's work.

Maybe, especially since there have been many political changes in Pakistan, regarding relations with the West (mainly USA). Article on Haretz (there are many more stories and events which support this story). Alto i am not sure that they are on so good terms with SA but everyone is on good terms with $$$ hmm :D

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Earl.Of.Trumps
Posted (edited)
On 4/8/2019 at 12:52 AM, Hammerclaw said:

 The Saudis having probably been in possession of warheads manufactured elsewhere for quite some time. 

Oh....?   That's a prolific statement, Claw.  :huh:

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps

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Hammerclaw
5 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Oh....?   That's a prolific statement, Claw.

Prolific? Pakistan has the bomb, there are tactical nukes unaccounted for in several former Russian vassal states and the Saudi's are filthy rich and Israel never messes with them and vise versa. Seems pretty likely.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

Prolific? Pakistan has the bomb, there are tactical nukes unaccounted for in several former Russian vassal states and the Saudi's are filthy rich and Israel never messes with them and vise versa. Seems pretty likely.

Pakistan, yes, as well as India having the bomb. There's a great combo to have nukes, eh?  LOL  -   Kashmir. 

The missing Russian nukes I knew about from about 25 years ago. If I recall there were many nukes left unaccounted for in Ukraine.  So I guess it's possible,. yes.  And of course, Israel will never mess with the Saudis because the Saudis are buddy buddy with the US and Saudi has agreed to be neutral to Israel. 

And SA has tons of $$$ so they are a good candidate I suppose.  Wish we could know that for sure.

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Razumov

This podcast explains the Trump administration's deal and how completely illegal it is:

https://www.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/1206881/ip3-yeah-you-know-me/

The Chairman of the Committee on Oversight and Reform wants answers to allegations about influence peddling and a grandiose plan to sell Saudi Arabia up to 40 nuclear reactors. This week, Aaron and Jeffrey dig into the interim staff report detailing the allegations, what the purported IP3 plan really means, and safeguards on civil nuclear technology. 

 

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