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Eldorado

US College admissions scandal trial begins

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Eldorado

"The first group of parents accused of paying $25m (£19m) in bribes appeared in Boston federal court on Wednesday.

The elaborate scheme, which aimed to acquire places for children at elite US universities, was revealed by federal investigators last month.

In total 50 people, including 33 parents and college athletic coaches, have been charged."

Full report at the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47808530

At Boston Globe: https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/04/03/felicity-huffman-and-lori-loughlin-due-boston-court-college-cheating-scandal/4MLzJDNPIFmpYCLwQNkfEP/story.html

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aztek

i do not think they should pay for anyone.  there are plenty of collages that more people can afford,   i strongly believe someone who wants to go to college, should find a way to get there themselves.  

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Stubbly_Dooright
21 hours ago, and then said:

I think those found guilty should have to pay heavy fines and EVERY PENNY of that money should pay for scholarships for young people who have proven they want to succeed by making good grades but whose parents cannot afford to send them to school.  Every school that was tainted by the scandal should DOUBLE the amount that is raised by those fines and use it for the same purpose.  

For once, I 100% agree with @and then 

It makes me wonder, how this institutions would have the involuntarily back-lash of not being trusted institutions to be considered to attend. Yes, I know, the colleges involved report that they have had no knowledge and part of this, but it still makes me wonder some people will avoid them in the near future now. 

 

20 hours ago, aztek said:

i do not think they should pay for anyone.  there are plenty of collages that more people can afford,   i strongly believe someone who wants to go to college, should find a way to get there themselves.  

I think @and then   mentioned the one’s who would be most hurt by this situation. And, I think they are being hurt. 

Granted, I have always felt anywhere is what you make of it, colleges included, (and I attended two of them, a community college and a state university and I felt that way there) sometimes, you can do only so much. I think, that the level of what goes into an institution shows in how those that are part of it put their work into it. 

In the state university I went to, one of the degrees I was trying to minor in, I never completed it, because of one particular professor I had in one course lied to me. I went to him for help in his course, so I could improve my grade in it, and he said it’s something I didn’t have to worry about, it’s how he grades students and their work, and I was given the impression that my grade would be higher then I’m assuming it would be. Of course, that never happen, and I am left with a disgust and disappointment in him. 

What could I do, take him and the school to court? I ended up concentrating on my major degree and graduated with that. (In which, I feel has come in handy in two particular companies I worked for) There are some courses from my goal in going for my minor, I feel I have used to refer to. But, in the end, I wonder if I had completed the minor, where would I have been working for today. 

I reflect, would a professor in a bigger university, behave that way? 

I feel, in my experience of searching, attending, and having my children do the same thing, colleges, the lack of resources do show less effort. In that mindset, I also have noticed, along with those not with degrees from colleges, employers show biasness sometimes in where job applicants have gone to get their degrees. 

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aztek
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

 

I think @and then   mentioned the one’s who would be most hurt by this situation. And, I think they are being hurt. 

Granted, I have always felt anywhere is what you make of it, colleges included, (and I attended two of them, a community college and a state university and I felt that way there) sometimes, you can do only so much. I think, that the level of what goes into an institution shows in how those that are part of it put their work into it. 

In the state university I went to, one of the degrees I was trying to minor in, I never completed it, because of one particular professor I had in one course lied to me. I went to him for help in his course, so I could improve my grade in it, and he said it’s something I didn’t have to worry about, it’s how he grades students and their work, and I was given the impression that my grade would be higher then I’m assuming it would be. Of course, that never happen, and I am left with a disgust and disappointment in him. 

What could I do, take him and the school to court? I ended up concentrating on my major degree and graduated with that. (In which, I feel has come in handy in two particular companies I worked for) There are some courses from my goal in going for my minor, I feel I have used to refer to. But, in the end, I wonder if I had completed the minor, where would I have been working for today. 

I reflect, would a professor in a bigger university, behave that way? 

I feel, in my experience of searching, attending, and having my children do the same thing, colleges, the lack of resources do show less effort. In that mindset, I also have noticed, along with those not with degrees from colleges, employers show biasness sometimes in where job applicants have gone to get their degrees. 

yes college professors sometimes do that,  they have strong dislikes for some students for whatever reason,  and college administration will punish you for making a complaint about them in 9 out 10 cases. we had similar cases in school i went to, it is not uncommon. and that is also a part of learning, adopt, improvise, and use social engineering skills. it will help you get along with people at work. that is what we go to school for, not just learn math, history, economy,...... and get  a diploma. it's a but more than that

Edited by aztek
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Stubbly_Dooright
1 minute ago, aztek said:

yes college professors sometimes do that,  they have strong dislikes for some students for whatever reason,  and college administration will punish you for making a complaint about them in 9 out 10 cases. we had similar cases in school i went to, it is not uncommon. and that is also a part of learning, adopt, improvise, and use social engineering skills. it will help you get along with people at work. 

Funny, they don't seem to advertise that in college pamphlets. :rolleyes:  

You could also look at the other side of that, and see it as a way to build a lack of trust in your superiors, and the lack of will to improve situations in the workplace. 

I'm sorry, but I cannot see how anyone can condone that kind of behavior. Especially, when you receiving it at an institution one is paying for. Hell, that kind of behavior can be taught to you, by not going to college and thus saving you and whole boatload of money. 

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aztek
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

 

I'm sorry, but I cannot see how anyone can condone that kind of behavior. Especially, when you receiving it at an institution one is paying for. Hell, that kind of behavior can be taught to you, by not going to college and thus saving you and whole boatload of money. 

well yes, it sucks, it is unfair, but it is a real world, it happens,    we can feel victimized by it, or we can adopt to situation and get whatever you need out of it. and come out on top.  

you can avoid college, but you can't avoid world around you that is full of such situations,

Edited by aztek
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Stubbly_Dooright
1 minute ago, aztek said:
5 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

 

I'm sorry, but I cannot see how anyone can condone that kind of behavior. Especially, when you receiving it at an institution one is paying for. Hell, that kind of behavior can be taught to you, by not going to college and thus saving you and whole boatload of money. 

well yes, it sucks, it is unfair, but it is a real world, it happens,    we can feel victimized by it, or we can adopt to situation and get whatever you need out of it. and come out on top.

That's not the point. Are you condoning the behaviors of those who took part in these college admission scandals? 

Yes, it's good to have a strong will and resourcefulness in your life, but I consider it extremely wrong to excuse the behaviors of those who tarnish the institutions, and in the long run, their behaviors actually harming those who actually need what is being taken from them. 

How far will people go, to actually show college isn't even worth going? A lot of times, resourcefulness and the willingness to adapt can only get so far. And there is a big difference to feeling victimized, and actually being a victim. 

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aztek
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

That's not the point. Are you condoning the behaviors of those who took part in these college admission scandals? 

 

i could not care less. they do not affect me or my kids. in fact i do not believe they took anyone place. technically it is a crime what they did,  but victims here are only their own kids and their bank account.

i do not have to neither condone nor condemn every thing that happens in the world. i tend to care only about what affect me, or things that i can change.

Edited by aztek

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and then
4 hours ago, aztek said:

i could not care less. they do not affect me or my kids. in fact i do not believe they took anyone place. technically it is a crime what they did,  but victims here are only their own kids and their bank account.

i do not have to neither condone nor condemn every thing that happens in the world. i tend to care only about what affect me, or things that i can change.

I think there were a few other victims in this story, aztek.  Many of those who got accepted through the bribery path took places on athletic teams that could have been used by scholarship athletes.  No, I don't think that tens of thousands of students were cheated but it is tearing down the fabric of trust in our society.  At some point, it's going to cause a serious problem.  Where do we go to regain trust in the essential functions in our lives where we have to depend on fair decisions by others?  

I certainly agree that the worst losers here are those children.  They're being taught that they don't need to compete or strive to overcome obstacles and that will bite them in a big way, sooner or later.  NO ONE is insulated from the need to grow through adversity and no amount of wealth shields humans from that fact of life.

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aztek
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, and then said:

I think there were a few other victims in this story, aztek.  Many of those who got accepted through the bribery path took places on athletic teams that could have been used by scholarship athletes.  No, I don't think that tens of thousands of students were cheated but it is tearing down the fabric of trust in our society.  At some point, it's going to cause a serious problem.  Where do we go to regain trust in the essential functions in our lives where we have to depend on fair decisions by others?  

I certainly agree that the worst losers here are those children.  They're being taught that they don't need to compete or strive to overcome obstacles and that will bite them in a big way, sooner or later.  NO ONE is insulated from the need to grow through adversity and no amount of wealth shields humans from that fact of life.

i think it is not the case, if anything school created additional place for those that paid.  and it does not look like those who parents paid for are athletes anyway. most of them did not even want to be there. 

Edited by aztek
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and then
3 minutes ago, aztek said:

i think it is not the case, if anything school created a additional place for those that paid.  and it does not look like those who parents paid for are athletes anyway. most of them did not even want to be there.

That could be true, in fact, it probably is logical but it still doesn't help with the sense of trust people have had in the college admission testing standards.  Not being able to trust the gatekeepers is a terrible burden, IMO.  I think colleges are overpricing their product at this point and when families do a cost-benefit analysis, they'll increasingly find that the degree won't pay for itself for 20 years or more.  What would be the point?

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aztek
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, and then said:

That could be true, in fact, it probably is logical but it still doesn't help with the sense of trust people have had in the college admission testing standards.  Not being able to trust the gatekeepers is a terrible burden, IMO.  I think colleges are overpricing their product at this point and when families do a cost-benefit analysis, they'll increasingly find that the degree won't pay for itself for 20 years or more.  What would be the point?

i'm pretty sure their degree will never pay off, most rich spoiled kids will graduate, throw their diploma someplace far, and continue living off their parents.  why would they work? the college was a status thing, something that parents can brag about to their buddies. how smart their kids are.   

i'm pretty sure the biggest victims are their kids, such parents destroyed them as productive members of society, and it started well before college.

Edited by aztek
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Stubbly_Dooright
5 hours ago, aztek said:

i could not care less. they do not affect me or my kids. in fact i do not believe they took anyone place. technically it is a crime what they did,  but victims here are only their own kids and their bank account.

i do not have to neither condone nor condemn every thing that happens in the world. i tend to care only about what affect me, or things that i can change.

Really?!?! :huh:

why even bother reading and debating about other people, if you don’t care about them?!

:no: 

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Stubbly_Dooright
22 hours ago, aztek said:

well yes, it sucks, it is unfair, but it is a real world, it happens,    we can feel victimized by it, or we can adopt to situation and get whatever you need out of it. and come out on top.  

you can avoid college, but you can't avoid world around you that is full of such situations,

 Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......

Quote
 
well yes, it sucks, it is unfair, but it is a real world, it happens,    we can feel victimized by it, or we can adopt to situation and get whatever you need out of it. and come out on top.

So, you updated it. 

Someone who doesn’t attend colleges (avoiding it, in your words) do it for varying reasons, doesn’t necessarily mean they are avoiding ‘the world around them’. I don’t think, that was even brought up. So again, that wasn’t the point. The point was the behavior of some in the colleges. And considering that colleges are usually considered in how to prepare you more for the real world, it would seem a waste of time on their part if they don’t help one in that area. 

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susieice
Posted (edited)

Hallmark has cut it's ties with Lori Loughlin. She's really clueless, acting like this is just a minor incident that will pass. I can't get over $500,000 to get a school to accept her 2 daughters. How bad did they flunk their tests? Most reports say a half million but the NY Times article says $50,000. I think they forgot a 0.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherrim/2019/03/16/the-money-lori-loughlin-used-to-allegedly-bribe-usc-coaches-couldve-made-olivia-jade-an-olympian/#5d2c97a816ba

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/14/arts/television/lori-loughlin-hallmark-cheating.html

Edited by susieice
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and then
On 4/5/2019 at 4:30 PM, aztek said:

i'm pretty sure their degree will never pay off, most rich spoiled kids will graduate, throw their diploma someplace far, and continue living off their parents.  why would they work? the college was a status thing, something that parents can brag about to their buddies. how smart their kids are.   

i'm pretty sure the biggest victims are their kids, such parents destroyed them as productive members of society, and it started well before college.

I've heard the theory that just being accepted to the right schools guarantees prestige and access to a network of powerful people.  That's probably what it's all about.  You're right, they'll never have to do any REAL work so they don't need the education unless they want to keep from being embarrassed.

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Phaeton80
Posted (edited)

Pandamonium! Scandal! Conspiracy!

Like this is anything new, its not. Ivy league schools are populated with elite offspring who would never be able to attend these universities if their parents werent extra-ordinarily affluent.

Anyone here suppose Bush 'W' would have had a chance in hell to attain? I really, really wouldnt think so. These Ivies have been a platform for untalented rich people to kickstart their shallow life of material gains since I can remember. Another example, one who is generally boasted as being 'self made', 'a peoples champion from amongst themselves', no less..

Quote

In her 2001 biography, “The Trumps,” Gwenda Blair reported that Trump’s grades at Fordham were not good enough to qualify him to transfer to Wharton. According to Blair, Trump got into Wharton as a special favor from a “friendly” admissions officer who was a high school classmate of Trump’s older brother, Freddy. The college’s admissions staff was surely aware that Trump’s father was a wealthy real estate developer and a potential donor.

Other than his father’s money and his family’s connections, Trump had no qualifications that would have otherwise gotten him into Wharton. (Most people who mention Wharton refer to its prestigious MBA program, but Trump was an economics major in the undergraduate program.)

[..]

Despite this, Trump often tries to portray himself as a self-made entrepreneur. “It has not been easy for me,” Trump said at a town hall meeting on Oct. 26, 2015, acknowledging, “My father gave me a small loan of a million dollars.”

But an investigation by The Washington Post last year demolished Trump’s claim that he made it on his own. Not only did Trump’s father provide Donald with a huge inheritance and set up big-bucks trust accounts to provide his son with a steady income, Fred was also a silent partner in Trump’s first real estate projects. According to the Post:

Trump’s father — whose name had been besmirched in New York real estate circles after investigations into windfall profits and other abuses in his real estate projects — was an essential silent partner in Trump’s initiative. In effect, the son was the front man, relying on his father’s connections and wealth, while his father stood silently in the background to avoid drawing attention to himself.

Born into privilege, Trump got into Wharton through family connections and then inherited a fortune. Now his administration is preparing to thwart efforts by colleges and universities to recruit students of color who had to overcome obstacles that Trump can’t even imagine. The Justice Department memo uncovered by The New York Times described its plan as challenging “intentional race-based discrimination,” referring to programs designed to bring more minority students to college campuses.

 


Oh well, guess its not as laudible as scamming people with his Trump University.. robbing the middle class dupes of their hard earned, sparse cash. Ironically, he is now doing thesame on a national level; only this time being cheered on by thesame (as long as the dream lasts, this time around).

:)

 

Edited by Phaeton80
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Myles
On 4/12/2019 at 7:38 PM, susieice said:

Hallmark has cut it's ties with Lori Loughlin. She's really clueless, acting like this is just a minor incident that will pass. I can't get over $500,000 to get a school to accept her 2 daughters. How bad did they flunk their tests? Most reports say a half million but the NY Times article says $50,000. I think they forgot a 0.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherrim/2019/03/16/the-money-lori-loughlin-used-to-allegedly-bribe-usc-coaches-couldve-made-olivia-jade-an-olympian/#5d2c97a816ba

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/14/arts/television/lori-loughlin-hallmark-cheating.html

Didn't she also use it as a tax deduction.

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susieice
1 hour ago, Myles said:

Didn't she also use it as a tax deduction.

I wasn't sure so I looked. The answer is yes. These bribes were claimed as tax deductable charity donations. There's a lot of links if someone wants to look. This will likely bring tax issues into this also I would think.

https://bold.global/sashas/2019/03/18/lori-loughlin-felicity-huffman-bribed-college-admissions-then-got-tax-breaks/

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Phaeton80
Posted (edited)

Just ran across this one.. which seems relevant somehow.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04-14/college-we-knew-it-broken-usa

 

Edit: well, mildly relevant anyway.

 

Edited by Phaeton80
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Not Your Huckleberry

College admissions IS a scandal.

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Eldorado

Related news...

"Less than two months after the Justice Department charged 50 people in the largest college-admissions cheating scandal in U.S. history, Hollywood already has plans to adapt the scam for the small screen.

And why shouldn’t it? As Vanity Fair’s Kenzie Bryant noted in March, Operation Varsity Blues is the mother lode of true-crime stories, complete with “TV celebrities, elite colleges, Photoshopped images, parental overreach, the theft of places from more deserving students, and several forms of alleged fraud.”"

At Vanity Fair: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/05/college-admissions-scandal-tv-show

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