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Sir Smoke aLot

IRGC placed on terrorist list by Trump

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Earl.Of.Trumps
On 4/8/2019 at 2:53 PM, RoofGardener said:

 

 

On 4/8/2019 at 2:36 PM, RoofGardener said:

Well, I'm not surprised - or even particularly interested - in the Islamic Republican Guard Corps' response. We are accustomed to their deranged bombastic pronouncements. 

What I would be MORE interested in investigating is whether this classification (the IRGC being a terrorist organisation) is justified ? 

What'app, Roofie?

WHAT Justification,  a definition (terrorist) designed and applied by Zionists?  Good luck!!

Tell me RG, When a zionist terrorist group, Irgun, blew up the King David Hotel killing 90 people, most in Brit diplomat corps, do the Zionists call that a "terrorist act"?  Menachem Begin masterminded the attack. He later went on to become PM of Israel.   Seeing how the game works, RG?  

I once looked into the definition of "terrorist" according to the people who do the classification (Israeli).  There is no doubt in my mind that  CIA, MI6, Mossad fit the bill, they are all terrorists. BUT... guess who makes the call?  yup.

If I recall, it's either Hamas or hezbollah that is classified as "terrorist"  but only two countries respect that classification, The United States of Israel.

To me, it looks like this:  anti-Zionist = Terrorist   (or so says Zionists)

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RoofGardener
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

 

What'app, Roofie?

WHAT Justification,  a definition (terrorist) designed and applied by Zionists?  Good luck!!

Tell me RG, When a zionist terrorist group, Irgun, blew up the King David Hotel killing 90 people, most in Brit diplomat corps, do the Zionists call that a "terrorist act"?  Menachem Begin masterminded the attack. He later went on to become PM of Israel.   Seeing how the game works, RG?  

I once looked into the definition of "terrorist" according to the people who do the classification (Israeli).  There is no doubt in my mind that  CIA, MI6, Mossad fit the bill, they are all terrorists. BUT... guess who makes the call?  yup.

If I recall, it's either Hamas or hezbollah that is classified as "terrorist"  but only two countries respect that classification, The United States of Israel.

To me, it looks like this:  anti-Zionist = Terrorist   (or so says Zionists)

Well, in THIS case, it is the USA that has applied the 'terrorist' label to the Islamic Republican Guard Corps. So I'm not sure why you refer to "Zionists"  ?

Oh.. and when has the British Secret Security Service (MI6) ever indulged in terrorist acts ? 

Oh.. and in regards Hezbollah... it is regarded as a terrorist group by the USA, Canada, the UK, the European Union, The Arab League, Australia, the Gulf Co-operation Council, and the Federated States of Micronesia. 

HAMAS is regarded as a terrorist group by the USA, the UK (the military wing only), Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Japan, New Zealand, Australia, and Tuvalu. 

And yes, the Irgun was a terrorist group. But they where disbanded when Israel declared itself as a country. 

 

Edited by RoofGardener
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1 hour ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

To me, it looks like this:  anti-Zionist = Terrorist   (or so says Zionists)

I'm a Zionist and that description doesn't work for my outlook.  Terror-ists are comprised of any person or group that uses violence and intimidation to achieve political goals.  That is, to instill TERROR in the hearts of their enemies.  People who sincerely believe that the descendants of Jacob/Israel have an inherent right to live on that land, cannot reasonably be deemed to be terrorists simply because of their belief.  That said, some Zionists are definitely terrorists.  The "PriceTag" group is an example.  Using the standard definition of terrorism, the IRGC are masters of the use of fear and intimidation through violent attacks.  The fact that they use proxies does not erase their bloody fingerprints for anyone willing to accept the evidence.  But that isn't the issue, is it?  

Yes, the Irgun, Stern Gang, hell, the Haganah in general, killed innocents in their quest to build a homeland and to protect Jews in Palestine.  How are they any different than the countless other examples of groups struggling for political independence and statehood?  They did not appear in a vacuum, either.  Just their presence in Palestine as JEWS who refused Dhimmitude was enough to force them to fight or die.  Human history is littered with groups of people who were displaced by conquest or who started wars and lost.  Only the Palestinian in all of history has had an immutable right of return to the land they once lived on.  Why?  Native Americans, indeed, indigenous peoples in every country that was brutally colonized by the Europeans, have no "right of return".  I can assure you that the trail of tears was a far worse burden than any suffering the Palestinians have undergone.

No, the real issue and the choice that has to be made by anyone who concerns themselves with this conflict is simple.  Who do YOU choose to support?  Like the man said: "you pays your money and you takes your chances"  

Trump and CO. are about to drop a "Deal of the Century" on the world and I think that reasonable, fair-minded folks are going to have to grudgingly admit that while not perfect, it's as fair as can be contrived.  Then we can see who wants to stop the slaughter and who wants to try to live in peace.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
8 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Well, in THIS case, it is the USA that has applied the 'terrorist' label to the Islamic Republican Guard Corps. So I'm not sure why you refer to "Zionists"  ?

Are you saying the US did this before Israel did??   So shock me!

8 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Oh.. and when has the British Secret Security Service (MI6) ever indulged in terrorist acts ? 

I could tell you but then I'd have to take you out,ya know?   RG, you have to look at what is considered a terrorist act, like killing civilians.

8 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Oh.. and in regards Hezbollah... it is regarded as a terrorist group by the USA, Canada, the UK, the European Union, The Arab League, Australia, the Gulf Co-operation Council, and the Federated States of Micronesia. 

HAMAS is regarded as a terrorist group by the USA, the UK (the military wing only), Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Japan, New Zealand, Australia, and Tuvalu. 

All I can say is, others came on board after I read that assessment long ago.

8 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

And yes, the Irgun was a terrorist group. But they where disbanded when Israel declared itself as a country. 

 

Anyway, I was never one for classifying enemies this way. they are fighters. They don't have bombs, jets etc. It's asymetric warfare. And it is war.  Publicly classifying groups like that is a propaganda stunt. We know how they fight, we don't need it reinforced.  

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Earl.Of.Trumps
8 hours ago, and then said:

I'm a Zionist and that description doesn't work for my outlook.  Terror-ists are comprised of any person or group that uses violence and intimidation to achieve political goals.  That is, to instill TERROR in the hearts of their enemies. 

and then, PLEASE!?  You don't think the civilian population of palestinians is not and has not been in absolute terror when Israel is on the prowl?  You know how Israel does the group punishment thing, like a few years ago when Israel leveled Gaza after the three yashiva students were murdered. I don't know how many innocent Gazans were killed but 301 were children. There is no question that act struck terror in their hearts. And there have been many others.

8 hours ago, and then said:

People who sincerely believe that the descendants of Jacob/Israel have an inherent right to live on that land, cannot reasonably be deemed to be terrorists simply because of their belief. 

No, not because of THAT belief as you STATED it.  But they go well beyond that. They further say  it is Ok to STEAL land and drive people off of it, people who don't pray in the jewish faith. That's terrorism in my book.

8 hours ago, and then said:

That said, some Zionists are definitely terrorists.  The "PriceTag" group is an example.  Using the standard definition of terrorism, the IRGC are masters of the use of fear and intimidation through violent attacks.  The fact that they use proxies does not erase their bloody fingerprints for anyone willing to accept the evidence.  But that isn't the issue, is it?  

To me it's only an issue because the US made it an issue. propaganda, that's all

8 hours ago, and then said:

Yes, the Irgun, Stern Gang, hell, the Haganah in general, killed innocents in their quest to build a homeland and to protect Jews in Palestine.  How are they any different than the countless other examples of groups struggling for political independence and statehood? 

How are they any different...?   As bad as the Euro settlers in America were, they never pushed the indians off into canada and mexico. You forget that what makes Israel's actions so poignant  is that many palestinians today have no home. It is a humanitarian crisis.

8 hours ago, and then said:

They did not appear in a vacuum, either.  Just their presence in Palestine as JEWS who refused Dhimmitude was enough to force them to fight or die.  Human history is littered with groups of people who were displaced by conquest or who started wars and lost.  Only the Palestinian in all of history has had an immutable right of return to the land they once lived on.  Why? 

 

8 hours ago, and then said:

Native Americans, indeed, indigenous peoples in every country that was brutally colonized by the Europeans, have no "right of return".  I can assure you that the trail of tears was a far worse burden than any suffering the Palestinians have undergone.

You don't need a right to return if you were given the right to go anywhere you want, which the indians do have. were they compensated enough...? pro'ly not. Are they under distress like the Pals...?  surely not.  But they can choose to be  american citizens. Displaced Pals can never be citizens of Israel.

8 hours ago, and then said:

No, the real issue and the choice that has to be made by anyone who concerns themselves with this conflict is simple.  Who do YOU choose to support?  Like the man said: "you pays your money and you takes your chances"  \

I concur. Zionists threw the dice long ago.  And yet it is far from over.

8 hours ago, and then said:

Trump and CO. are about to drop a "Deal of the Century" on the world and I think that reasonable, fair-minded folks are going to have to grudgingly admit that while not perfect, it's as fair as can be contrived.  Then we can see who wants to stop the slaughter and who wants to try to live in peace.

Well, and then, I can certainly take the Pals side if they want revenge. I understand.  Now, from my point of view, if you steal my car, why must I bargain with you to get *some* of it back????

But you hit  it above.  you pay your money, you take your chances.  War has no rules. Who knows what will happen,  The only thing I would predict is, don't look for peace any time soon. 

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2 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

You know how Israel does the group punishment thing, like a few years ago when Israel leveled Gaza after the three yashiva students were murdered.

I don't feel the need to make excuses for what Israelis do in their own defense.  You seem to believe that they have no justification for counter-attacking people who slaughter them at every opportunity.  These aren't Christians... they're JEWS.  "If someone rises to kill you - kill him first".  As a culture today, the Palestinians are fed hate with their mother's milk and think of Jews as subhuman.  Until they decide they want peace more than to eradicate Jews they will continue to suffer.  You can't fix stupid OR hate...

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2 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I concur. Zionists threw the dice long ago.  And yet it is far from over.

I agree but be assured, the clock is in full countdown mode now.

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RoofGardener
10 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Are you saying the US did this before Israel did??   So shock me!

What ??? The whole thread is about the USA designating the Islamic Republican Guard Corps as a terrorist organisation. What have "Zionists" got to do with this ? And are Saudi Arabia "Zionists" as well ? 

10 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I could tell you but then I'd have to take you out,ya know?   RG, you have to look at what is considered a terrorist act, like killing civilians.

The Secret Intelligence Service (SIS) does not, and never has, killed civilians. Or anybody.

10 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Anyway, I was never one for classifying enemies this way. they are fighters. They don't have bombs, jets etc. It's asymetric warfare. And it is war.  Publicly classifying groups like that is a propaganda stunt. We know how they fight, we don't need it reinforced.  

There IS a difference. Soldiers fight other soldiers, and have to obey the Geneva conventions regarding civilians. Terrorists, on the other hand, actively target civilians. They fight in VERY different ways, and they deserve different titles, as well as different treatment. 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
7 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

What ??? The whole thread is about the USA designating the Islamic Republican Guard Corps as a terrorist organisation. What have "Zionists" got to do with this ? And are Saudi Arabia "Zionists" as well ? 

The Secret Intelligence Service (SIS) does not, and never has, killed civilians. Or anybody.

There IS a difference. Soldiers fight other soldiers, and have to obey the Geneva conventions regarding civilians. Terrorists, on the other hand, actively target civilians. They fight in VERY different ways, and they deserve different titles, as well as different treatment. 

Seriously, RG.  I 'splain.

I watch how things operate over the years between Israel and the US. We all do, I guess.

As soon as I saw that the US had designated the RG as "terrorist", I said to myself, they are following up on orders from Israel, who must have done this already themselves.  Now, if Israel has not classified RG as terrorist, I will be amazed.  Is that so?

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RoofGardener
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Seriously, RG.  I 'splain.

I watch how things operate over the years between Israel and the US. We all do, I guess.

As soon as I saw that the US had designated the RG as "terrorist", I said to myself, they are following up on orders from Israel, who must have done this already themselves.  Now, if Israel has not classified RG as terrorist, I will be amazed.  Is that so?

Ahhh.. I see. Because - of course - the jews control America. 

Gotcha. Right. Silly of me to have forgotten that. 

< sigh > 

Oh.. minor detail for you. Israel has NOT declared that the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps is a terrorist group. 

Edited by RoofGardener

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Earl.Of.Trumps
55 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Ahhh.. I see. Because - of course - the jews control America. 

Gotcha. Right. Silly of me to have forgotten that. 

Well, it's true,isn't it?   Israel and the US always vote the same way in the UN, as an example. We're tied at the hip.

55 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

< sigh > 

Oh.. minor detail for you. Israel has NOT declared that the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps is a terrorist group. 

Ok, then I not only stand corrected, I stand shocked and corrected.  :unsure2:

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Setton
3 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Now, if Israel has not classified RG as terrorist, I will be amazed.  Is that so?

I hope Israel hasn't classified @RoofGardeneras a terrorist :o

I like his posts and it would be a shame if he suddenly disappeared in definitely-not-mysterious circumstances. 

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Sir Smoke aLot
Posted (edited)
On 4/9/2019 at 9:59 PM, and then said:

their leaders aren't really insane.

Of course that they are not, they have been standing for over 4 decades. That says a lot.

On 4/9/2019 at 9:59 PM, and then said:

They are religious zealots but they will not push Israel so far that she would respond with tactical nukes.

Thing is if Iran launch all conventional missiles i believe that Israel might have no time to respond but in any case Iran would be committing mass murder, something which they can't, ideologically and religiously that's not part of their identity. 

If Israel nuke anyone they would be also committing mass murder.

Whoever does something like that i believe that we would see something like ''Nurnberg process'' against them, after destroying their country first. But we will never know i hope. Also, if Israel says that it will destroy others in case of their fall, then, by the same standards, if USA and Israel attack Iran they might claim to have the same right? What then?

That's what bothers me and politics right now with so much anti Iranian BS all around might lead to some absurd situation. This is where international law plays a role and is the only thing which can prevent mass murders but many neglect the importance of international law, of UN and all similar institutions. By doing so one damages itself too.

On 4/9/2019 at 9:59 PM, and then said:

Israel has a real problem with how to handle Tehran.

Israel can't handle Iran. No one can.

On 4/9/2019 at 9:59 PM, and then said:

That government has made it abundantly clear that they seek the end of the Jewish state and they are moving all the pieces into place to accomplish that. 

Isn't Israel democracy? I have problem with that. I have also problem with ''Muslim state'' or ''Orthodox state'' or any similar BS which is made on such principles. People have the right to be treated equally no matter where they live. Aside from that, Iran never claimed such thing, Hamas didn't either nor did Hezbollah. Egypt never did, Syria also never did that and they waged many wars against Israel.

That's one of many logical twists and turns which make my mind about this topic.

I mean, if it's not true that others seek destruction of Jews in Israel then it must mean that Israeli regime needs such external threat, something which gives them carte blanche for whatever.

With all that in mind, what Zionists are doing is really harming both Jews and Israel i mean just look at all those allegations of anti Semitism (in the US that Muslim congresswoman or Corbyn in UK for example). In year time people will laugh on such accusations because most of them are empty. And when something evil really happens, who would know?

At the same time Netanyahu has decent relationship with Orban who is known to actively promote some essentially anti Semitic views.

Based on that, if something evil happens would we laugh, doubt, cry? I can't really say. Instead of protecting values of Jewish people today we see that Jewish people are kinda abused by Israel and Zionists who hide behind them. It doesn't do good to Israel and in the end it won't be good for Iran either. 

On 4/9/2019 at 9:59 PM, and then said:

Israel has a knack for surviving situations where no one thinks they can.  

Survival against poorly equipped armies is one thing, as it was since 1973 up until 2006 for Israel. Even in 1973 Israel had problems, a lot of problems in first days of operations. Things were tough for a while.

In 2006, when Israel faced Hezbollah it ended up as an embarrassment for ''invincible army''. All because Hezbollah managed to get some more modern tools, aside from having just cause and liberating their country. Israel doesn't have such luxury as it had in past.

[edit] sorry for late answer, have barely time to sleep because i am working on new project

Edited by Sir Smoke aLot

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RoofGardener
10 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Well, it's true,isn't it?   Israel and the US always vote the same way in the UN, as an example. We're tied at the hip.

Umm.. possibly that's because they have similar outlooks on the world ? They are both liberal democracies ? 

However, the US has NOT always voted the same way as Israel. (though it usually does, I'll grant you). 

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RoofGardener
10 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Ok, then I not only stand corrected, I stand shocked and corrected.  :unsure2:

Yeah.. it surprised me as well !! 

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and then
On 4/8/2019 at 1:42 PM, Sir Smoke aLot said:

but since they were never aggressors

How do YOU define aggression?  They've been sending proxies to kill for them all over the world since 1979 or so.  Their fingerprints have been identified on crimes in Europe and the M.E.  The only reason they haven't done anything large in the U.S. is they fear the hell it would unleash on them.  Those old men are as crazy as a **** house rat and once they get nukes, no one is going to escape the consequences.  I get that you are blinded by your faith and your worldview.  You reject anything that comes from a source other than those positive to your beliefs but if you live long enough, you will see Israel conquer her enemies after suffering horrific loss at home.  The countries and peoples down through the millennia who have attempted to destroy them have inevitably suffered the fate they had planned for them.  The nations that have welcomed their arch foes into their countries have uniformly had the nation weakened and put in chaos.  That's going to be set right in the future.

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