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AG Barr confirms spying on Trump campaign

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and then
On 4/11/2019 at 12:50 PM, hacktorp said:

Wrong.

Barr said there is, at this point, no evidence of laws broken...but that spying did occur.

Try to get it right next time.

Their protests are becoming weaker but more shrill.  How otherwise intelligent people can sell themselves out to the crumbling narrative of the Prog media is difficult to watch.  If it continues, they'll be totally discredited and will have to either admit the truth or appear virulently partisan.

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F3SS

They'll never admit anything at this point. They're heading fast towards Stage 5 Trump derangement syndrome to be either bound to the rubber room or talking to themselves while they walk down the street.

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Agent0range
44 minutes ago, and then said:

Their protests are becoming weaker but more shrill.  How otherwise intelligent people can sell themselves out to the crumbling narrative of the Prog media is difficult to watch.  If it continues, they'll be totally discredited and will have to either admit the truth or appear virulently partisan.

People can call themselves "intelligent people" all they want.  Intelligent people believe lizard people inhabit inner earth.  They call themselves intelligent.  Intelligent people believe Hillary Clinton runs a child sex ring in a Comet Pizza in DC.  They call themselves intelligent.  Just because people think they are intelligent, doesn't make it so.  The majority of people are stupid.  Do you think you're intelligent?  Probably.  Odds say otherwise.

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skliss
1 hour ago, and then said:

Their protests are becoming weaker but more shrill.  How otherwise intelligent people can sell themselves out to the crumbling narrative of the Prog media is difficult to watch.  If it continues, they'll be totally discredited and will have to either admit the truth or appear virulently partisan.

My fear is that even if evidence is found, showing that there was illegal spying and real corruption with attempts to oust a legally elected, sitting POTUS, they will feel it's okay because..ya know...Trump.

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Tatetopa
11 minutes ago, skliss said:

My fear is that even if evidence is found, showing that there was illegal spying and real corruption with attempts to oust a legally elected, sitting POTUS, they will feel it's okay because..ya know...Trump.

Let the investigations happen and the chips fall where they may.  Who will be in charge of investigating, the President's hand picked man.    Who will try the case, the president's Supreme Court.

It is not OK because ya know Trump just as it is not OK because ya know crooked Hillary.  The light has to shine here for any sort of future recovery to happen.

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Tatetopa
On 4/10/2019 at 8:05 PM, and then said:

Funny how a lot of Trump haters suddenly seem about to be "all funned out".  Fair is fair.  Let's see where the evidence takes us.  

Indeed, lets see where the evidence takes us.  It would be great to clean house on both sides of the aisle.  Probably won't get that far.

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and then
Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Who will be in charge of investigating, the President's hand picked man.

Can you name an AG that wasn't the "handpicked" man of a sitting president?  Your blatant bias is astounding and you should be ashamed.  The man has a reputation for integrity and honesty.  I guess in the coming days we'll see if it is deserved.  I have little doubt that Dems and their propaganda arm will eviscerate him if he finds proof of the spying and pursues legal action against those involved.  It will be sold as a conspiracy by a Trump shill in revenge for a valid, justifiable investigation.  The only problem with that is that if he's honest enough to go that far with an investigation and prosecution, he will have something Mueller never found... actual EVIDENCE.  IF it gets that far and you and the others here who hate Trump so vehemently are still denying the evidence then any opinion you state in the future will be forever ignored or discounted by reasonable people.  Your choice.

Edited by and then
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South Alabam
56 minutes ago, and then said:

Can you name an AG that wasn't the "handpicked" man of a sitting president?  Your blatant bias is astounding and you should be ashamed.  The man has a reputation for integrity and honesty.  I guess in the coming days we'll see if it is deserved.  I have little doubt that Dems and their propaganda arm will eviscerate him if he finds proof of the spying and pursues legal action against those involved.  It will be sold as a conspiracy by a Trump shill in revenge for a valid, justifiable investigation.  The only problem with that is that if he's honest enough to go that far with an investigation and prosecution, he will have something Mueller never found... actual EVIDENCE.  IF it gets that far and you and the others here who hate Trump so vehemently are still denying the evidence then any opinion you state in the future will be forever ignored or discounted by reasonable people.  Your choice.

Nothing will satisfy all of these never-Trumpers until his last day in office, at the end of his second term.

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South Alabam
2 hours ago, Agent0range said:

People can call themselves "intelligent people" all they want.  Intelligent people believe lizard people inhabit inner earth.  They call themselves intelligent.  Intelligent people believe Hillary Clinton runs a child sex ring in a Comet Pizza in DC.  They call themselves intelligent.  Just because people think they are intelligent, doesn't make it so.  The majority of people are stupid.  Do you think you're intelligent?  Probably.  Odds say otherwise.

If you ever post anything that doesn't make you look stupid, please message me. I want to see it.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
1 hour ago, and then said:

Can you name an AG that wasn't the "handpicked" man of a sitting president?

LOLOLOLOL!    Twue dat!    Like JFK choosing his brother, Bobby as AG, and more than  just him.,

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Tatetopa
2 hours ago, and then said:

Can you name an AG that wasn't the "handpicked" man of a sitting president?  Your blatant bias is astounding and you should be ashamed.  The man has a reputation for integrity and honesty.

Interesting interpretation of my comment.   No kidding every AG is hand picked.  Although to be catty about it, so was Jeff Sessions.  I don't think the President would be so confident with Jeff at the helm. Barr is going to lead the investigation.  Also the Supreme Court should be  pretty favorable to his arguments.  I don't really know the guy. I am not showing bias, but stating a fact .   Generally, I am a reasonable guy, I don't like the President, but I don't think he is Satan incarnate.  He has even done a couple of things like.

Skliss had a concern. that somehow this investigation will be subverted.

My point is this:  Barr is selected by the President as his best guy in the aftermath of the Mueller investigation to protect presidential power.   The Supreme Court is, as I repeat, likely to be favorable to Barr's arguments.

Don't confuse me with Nancy Pelosi.  I didn't say I don't trust Barr. I don't know skookum about Barr but hear he is reputable.  He favors Presidential power, but if he is at least as honest as Mueller, then things  will be done professionally.

 

Now what grinds my gears is that even though conservatives hold a senate majority and constitute at least half  of the voting population, they want to play the little snowflake victim  game like the big bad liberals are going to pull some amazing  trick.   

Wake up dude, conservatives hold the power, act like adults and stop whining.  Don't  you kind of get the sense that the President has just triumphed over a two year investigation?  If it had been a crooked or rigged investigation, some charges would have been Trumped up.  But they were not.   Don't you have enough confidence to know that any trick can be uncovered and nullified?  Liberals are really no smarter than conservatives as I am sure you know..

If conservatives or the President screw this up it will be your fault and Trump's fault. 

If Hillary or Obama officials are indicted, let it be so.

If AG Barr greatly increases the power of the President, then let it be so. 

When the next Obama comes along in 10 or 14 years, the groundwork will be laid.  And that is the very reason it is best for both sides to play it straight.  What goes around eventually comes around.  I rest my case.

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Tatetopa
2 hours ago, South Alabam said:

Nothing will satisfy all of these never-Trumpers until his last day in office, at the end of his second term.

 

1 hour ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

LOLOLOLOL!    Twue dat!    Like JFK choosing his brother, Bobby as AG, and more than  just him.,

Golly, I feel like I just threw a june bug into the chicken coop. Relax y'all.  I think Mueller was honest, I think Barr will be too.  Of course he is hand picked, that was meant to give skliss a little confidence not state some shady goings on.   Yes I do care what happens, I still love America although you will claim I don't because I only agree with a few of your views.  I still believe in truth and equal justice under the law  for every citizen.

I am sure some Democrats will try to throw shade at the process.  But so what really?  The show must go on.  Most  of all,  I believe this rock must be turned over for all the plots and creatures to be exposed to the light of day.  So let it be D's or R's  , either way the average citizen will be better off.

My bet is another Republican will follow Trump's second term, but he likely  won't last eight years.  Another Republican will not be able to follow T rump successfully. .  He will be a shadow.  Then the Dems will take it. 

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and then
2 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Interesting interpretation of my comment.

If I misunderstood, I apologize for the attitude.  You'll forgive me for the assumption.

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skliss
8 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

President's hand picked man.

Well, at least you've got the talking point down. It's so ridiculous, they are all hand picked. He was also reluctant to take the job, which I like, was from an era where they actually remained neutral once they had the job and was confirmed by both sides. Now his integrity is impuned left and right simply because they dont like the outcome of a report he didnt even write. I read an article yesterday where Rosenstein called the fact the left is disputing his summary and demanding an unredacted report "bizarre".

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Tatetopa
6 hours ago, skliss said:

Well, at least you've got the talking point down. It's so ridiculous, they are all hand picked.

Yes of course they are.  You seemed concerned that things would go amiss, I thought you would have a little more confidence if you remembered this and the current Supreme Court.

The reaction is interesting as it seems to offend some, like I am accusing you of being caught with your hand in the cookie jar.  It is what every President does.  It is smart.  In this case well timed.   As I said somewhere up above, Jeff Sessions was handpicked too, but he probably was not as qualified to handle this situation.  I still think Jeff Sessions was an honorable man trying to do the right thing, support the president and be true to his own values and honor. 

Barr is a perfect choice, maybe one of Trumps best appointments. This may have repercussions for the presidency for many terms to come.

 

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Pettytalk

Talking about handpicked people? Trump is said to be God's handpicked man, and some here would make a devil out of him. Here is who claims Trump is God's choice, either for good, or for evil.

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/politics/2019/february/paula-white-sanders-is-right-trump-was-chosen-by-god-to-protect-religious-values

The Democrats and the mainstream media shouldn't be so quick to mock White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders for suggesting that President Trump was chosen by God to lead this country.

"I think God calls all of us to fill different roles at different times and I think that he wanted Donald Trump to become president, and that's why he's there," Sanders said in a recent interview with the Christian Broadcasting Network. "I think he has done a tremendous job in supporting a lot of the things that people of faith really care about."

Talk about twisting and turning the essence of the Bible, the New Testament in particular.

Can there be any talk so evident as to its foolishness than going around telling others that president Trump is God's choice to protect Judeo-Christian religious values? Actually it's no mere foolishness, but sure as hell is damned funny. What these so-called preachers mean is not virtuous religious values, but rather wealth-religion values. The "people of faith" who support Trump have faith only in monetary values, and their religion is material prosperity.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology

But there are some Christians that support Trump because they believe Trump will be the catalyst that will usher in the End-Times prophecy of the Book of Revelation. Trump is, according to them, a benevolent person, one that will be responsible for triggering the return of Jesus Christ, and therefore bringing the Kingdom of heaven down to earth.  https://www.thetrumpet.com/16702-donald-trump-brings-bible-prophecy-alive-in-jerusalem  https://theoutline.com/post/939/donald-trump-antichrist-apocalypse?zd=1&zi=p23rqkdi

Other Christians actually wonder if Trump may not actually be the anti-Christ of the Book of Revelation, and that is why we have the following. https://www.endtime.com/podcast/is-president-trump-the-antichrist/

Who and what is Donald Trump? 

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Will Due
5 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

Who and what is Donald Trump? 

 

You're fired.

 

 

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skliss
On 4/13/2019 at 1:43 PM, Tatetopa said:

Yes of course they are.  You seemed concerned that things would go amiss, I thought you would have a little more confidence if you remembered this and the current Supreme Court.

The reaction is interesting as it seems to offend some, like I am accusing you of being caught with your hand in the cookie jar.  It is what every President does.  It is smart.  In this case well timed.   As I said somewhere up above, Jeff Sessions was handpicked too, but he probably was not as qualified to handle this situation.  I still think Jeff Sessions was an honorable man trying to do the right thing, support the president and be true to his own values and honor. 

Barr is a perfect choice, maybe one of Trumps best appointments. This may have repercussions for the presidency for many terms to come.

 

Your implication is that he's a good pick because he'll lie or hide for Trump, that he's some sort of Trump patsy. That's just an attempt to manipulate perception about a man who has done this very job in the past in a neutral fashion. Seemed like you want to preempt a truth you won't like and mostly likely won't accept.. 

What are the "repercussions " you seem to fear?

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Tatetopa
2 hours ago, skliss said:

Your implication is that he's a good pick because he'll lie or hide for Trump, that he's some sort of Trump patsy. That's just an attempt to manipulate perception about a man who has done this very job in the past in a neutral fashion. Seemed like you want to preempt a truth you won't like and mostly likely won't accept.. 

What are the "repercussions " you seem to fear?

Hold on skliss.  He is a good pick because he has strong views about presidential power.  No offense to Jeff Sessions, but he was not the same type of scholar that Barr is.  Yes I fully expect Barr to defend the President's position to the best of his power.  He doesn't need to lie or hide.   Trump patsy?  What does that mean?   He was selected by the President for his sympathetic views about presidential power,  He can still be honest.   Would the President have been smart to pick a guy who thought Congress should have a lot more power and the President less?  I don't think so.  Still there may be some smart honest Republicans out there that might believe something like that.  Barr is certainly not antagonistic to the president or his view, otherwise he would not be chosen.

It is not wrong, illegal, or unethical  to pick an appointee with an opinion favorable to you.  From what I see of legal proceedings, the attorney counsels his client to  answer questions but don't volunteer extra information.  Barr can do that without being dishonest or a liar.   If he is honest, that is enough.  What that means to me is that  Barr does not have to reveal everything the Mueller report said.  If it does not cast the president in the best light, he does not have to volunteer that information.  He does have to answer truthfully if he is asked.  That is our system and I am OK with it.  Wasn't meant to be a rant.

 

Repercussions I fear?   Strong use of Presidential power under President Trump will be a precedent for future Presidents.   So, as my theory goes up above, Trump wins a second term.  A Republican follows but cannot excite the base and they don't come out to vote..  A Democrat is elected in 2028 or 2032, maybe a far left Progressive.  On his second day in office he writes an executive order that says climate change is a national emergency. He shuts down coal mines and coal fired power plants.  Then he appropriates defense money to reward cities with solar and wind power alternatives and cuts aid from cities that don't.    

Or he could want to play tit for tat and cut off disaster aid from red states that don't believe in climate change, because they deserve the hurricanes, tornadoes, and floods they get.  That is what I see.

 

Now I might like the environmental part a little bit, but even I think that is  too far for a President to go.   I don't want our government to be a tool for teaching opponents  painful lessons.  I don't want either side to be so dominant that they step all over the other citizens.  I include Democrats in that  too btw. Not saying we are there yet, but it could be a future choice.  I am still hoping to see an even greater America than has yet been.  

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skliss
17 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

What that means to me is that  Barr does not have to reveal everything the Mueller report said.  If it does not cast the president in the best light, he does not have to volunteer that information.  He does have to answer truthfully if he is asked.  That is our system and I am OK with it.  Wasn't meant to be a rant.

This is what I mean, right here you are saying you think Barr will not be neutral but will hide information, essentially lie by omission.

17 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

 I don't want our government to be a tool for teaching opponents  painful lessons.

And this is exactly what the Democrats have been doing for the last couple of years, making it as painful as possible for anyone associated with Trump, god forbid that you once shared an elevator with Trump. They punish anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with a far left agenda, even their own candidates. And they've been using government agencies to do it. 

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Earl.Of.Trumps

Bang on, @skliss

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Tatetopa
2 hours ago, skliss said:

This is what I mean, right here you are saying you think Barr will not be neutral but will hide information, essentially lie by omission.

Of course Barr will not be neutral, that is not his job.    He will publish a redacted report.  That means some lines and words  will be blacked out.    No, he is not going to lie by omission. He will answer truthfully if the questions are asked. Skliss, that is as it should be.   All of the Presidents appointees and cabinet should share similar views to his own.  That is the only way an administration works effectively.   That is why the President replaced some cabinet members, they did not agree with him or were neutral toward his desired policies. Do you propose that Barr voluntarily  issue an uncensored report instead?

I am not a big Trump fan, but he deserves every advantage the law allows.    Justice should be equal and blind.  If some folks riding his coat tails committed crimes, they should be outed.  Same with either party.

 

2 hours ago, skliss said:

And this is exactly what the Democrats have been doing for the last couple of years, making it as painful as possible for anyone associated with Trump, god forbid that you once shared an elevator with Trump. They punish anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with a far left agenda, even their own candidates. And they've been using government agencies to do it. 

Trump associates were indicted and tried for breaking laws, not for being the President's friends.  I believe at least one Obama administration official was called out in the Mueller report too.  It is likely to be more if  an investigation is warranted. 

I am not sure how you arrived at that conclusion.  Rex Tillerson was not punished.  Gen. Mattis was not persecuted.  Jeff Sessions was not persecuted.   Scaramucci wasn't black-balled.  Omorosa is out there writing books.  Kelly was not indicted and neither was McMaster.  Plenty of people in the Trump business organization had to testify but were not punished.

Democrats resisting Trump?.yes.    Democrats arguing over moderate vs. extreme?  Yes.  Dust hasn't settled yet.  Remember the heroes of the tea party?  They did not compromise or agree to go along with fellow Republicans.  Are they far right loonies and traitors because they didn't?

Let it happen.  Shake as many crooks out of both parties as possible. before it settles down. 

 

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skliss
14 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Of course Barr will not be neutral, that is not his job

That is EXACTLY his job! The reasons for reactions are to protect people, whether they are innocent or if their undercover activities will be exposed putting them in jeopardy. Not to protect Trump as you suggest. It's merely your way of preparing your disbelief/excuse for not believing Trump is innocent of these charges being made by Dem because you already know you won't like what the report and Mueller concluded.

14 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

 

I am not a big Trump fan, but he deserves every advantage the law allows.

Unless it doesn't agree with your pre-decided opinion.

 

14 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Trump associates were indicted and tried for breaking laws, not for being the President's friends

But they aren't the only ones lamblasted, slandered and/or punished for working for Trump or in his administration. Look how Barr, who had a sterling reputation is suddenly a partisan hack and willing to sell his integrity and soul to lie for Trump. How about the way Sarah Sanders or Kellyanne Conway are talked about and treated.

15 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Rex Tillerson was not punished.  Gen. Mattis was not persecuted.  Jeff Sessions was not persecuted.   Scaramucci wasn't black-balled.  Omorosa is out there writing books.  Kelly was not indicted and neither was McMaster.  

You're kidding, right? All these people are and were treated like they are low IQ patsies who know Trump is a criminal but blindly do whatever he says, rip off the world, eat babies for breakfast, become a dictator, etc. Mindless zombies who live to do Trumps bidding no matter what evil he dreams up. Omorosa lied to try and throw Trump under the bus when she got fired. I'd hardly call her a Trump associate any more. I'm not talking about indictments, I'm talking about career ending public perceptions based simply on the fact they know or work for Trump. The POTUS. 

 

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Tatetopa
3 hours ago, skliss said:

That is EXACTLY his job! The reasons for reactions are to protect people, whether they are innocent or if their undercover activities will be exposed putting them in jeopardy. Not to protect Trump as you suggest.

Sorry, I was probably not being clear.  AG Barr is a staunch believer in a strong Presidency and extensive powers. He was selected for his philosophy.  It is not illegal or immoral or unethical.  It is an opinion.  Other people have opinions too.  When opinions conflict, the final decision maker is the Supreme Court.  They decide which opinion about the Constitution best  aligns with what the founding fathers laid out.  So far, there is no credible challenge to AG Bar'rs interpretation of the Constitution.

I do not think AG Barr is hiding the truth. First off, he doesn't have to publish the report at all.  I do not know what the redactions are for, and until Thursday, neither do you.  Likely, some of them may  redact opinions of Mueller or his team.  Barr will defend his opinion of the Constitution and give the President the shelter of the law.   That is good, that is the law.

It is the law that matters most.  Personalities come and go, but hopefully the Constitution as the basis for our government will last another couple hundred years.   

 

3 hours ago, skliss said:

You're kidding, right? All these people are and were treated like they are low IQ patsies

No I am not kidding and no, the mainstream media and the Democrats did not treat Tillerson, Mattis, Kelly , and McMaster as low IQ patsies.  Tillerson was well respected as the CEO of one of the largest corporations on earth.  Mattis is still honored as one of the greatest generals of our age.  Two of my office mates who are veterans think he is awesome.  It was Donald Trump that challenged Rex Tillerson's IQ, not the press or Democrats. Own it.  In fact, the MSM and the Democrats often referred to these men as "The adults in the room"  with the implication that they were preventing some spur of the moment terrible presidential ideas from becoming reality.  It is the President who has bad mouthed all of these people.

Omorosa was his associate until they had a falling out.  Manaford,  Flynn,  Cohen, and the others were presidential associates who were convicted of breaking laws like tax evasion.   They were exposed during the investigation.  

You can assume the president was an outsider and too trusting if you want, but a number of opportunists flocked to his administration.  That includes some of his cabinet appointments.  For example, it is not acceptable to be a former Boeing executive, be appointed to head the Pentagon and dis Lockheed, the Boeing competitor. That is not leaving your former life behind and being impartial.

 

Last time.   The report is done and handed in.  The President was not accused, indicted, or convicted, nor likely to be impeached.  It is done.

Democrats can oppose every single policy that President Trump proposes, but they have no grounds to remove him from office now.

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skliss
2 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Sorry, I was probably not being clear.  AG Barr is a staunch believer in a strong Presidency and extensive powers. He was selected for his philosophy.  It is not illegal or immoral or unethical.  It is an opinion.  Other people have opinions too.  When opinions conflict, the final decision maker is the Supreme Court.  They decide which opinion about the Constitution best  aligns with what the founding fathers laid out.  So far, there is no credible challenge to AG Bar'rs interpretation of the Constitution.

I do not think AG Barr is hiding the truth. First off, he doesn't have to publish the report at all.  I do not know what the redactions are for, and until Thursday, neither do you.  Likely, some of them may  redact opinions of Mueller or his team.  Barr will defend his opinion of the Constitution and give the President the shelter of the law.   That is good, that is the law.

It is the law that matters most.  Personalities come and go, but hopefully the Constitution as the basis for our government will last another couple hundred years.   

 

No I am not kidding and no, the mainstream media and the Democrats did not treat Tillerson, Mattis, Kelly , and McMaster as low IQ patsies.  Tillerson was well respected as the CEO of one of the largest corporations on earth.  Mattis is still honored as one of the greatest generals of our age.  Two of my office mates who are veterans think he is awesome.  It was Donald Trump that challenged Rex Tillerson's IQ, not the press or Democrats. Own it.  In fact, the MSM and the Democrats often referred to these men as "The adults in the room"  with the implication that they were preventing some spur of the moment terrible presidential ideas from becoming reality.  It is the President who has bad mouthed all of these people.

Omorosa was his associate until they had a falling out.  Manaford,  Flynn,  Cohen, and the others were presidential associates who were convicted of breaking laws like tax evasion.   They were exposed during the investigation.  

You can assume the president was an outsider and too trusting if you want, but a number of opportunists flocked to his administration.  That includes some of his cabinet appointments.  For example, it is not acceptable to be a former Boeing executive, be appointed to head the Pentagon and dis Lockheed, the Boeing competitor. That is not leaving your former life behind and being impartial.

 

Last time.   The report is done and handed in.  The President was not accused, indicted, or convicted, nor likely to be impeached.  It is done.

Democrats can oppose every single policy that President Trump proposes, but they have no grounds to remove him from office now.

I still think you are implying Barr will somehow hide crimes by Trump because he "shelters" the Presidency or Trump himself....And by saying that you are saying there are crimes to be hidden. Own it.

And all I can say to the rest is you must not watch much TV. 

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