Dispilio Tablet

[Tatetopa]

2 minutes ago, Piney said:

They are too long and would break easy. Generally on habitation sites we find buck loads of thumb scrapers and thumb size gravers. Then adzes for big stuff.  I carve charm masks out of soapstone with just one thumb graver.

Good call.  Modern chip carving knives have a blade of around an inch long.

Piney, would you mount a small graver in a handle or just hold it by hand?

[BorizBadinov]

6 minutes ago, Piney said:

They are too long and would break easy. Generally on habitation sites we find buck loads of thumb scrapers and thumb size gravers. Then adzes for big stuff.  I carve charm masks out of soapstone with just one thumb graver.

I would agree the pictured tools are a bit large for the task. I was shooting for the hook shape and that was the best I could find. Any sharp edge would work really. 

[Piney]

7 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Piney, would you mount a small graver in a handle or just hold it by hand?

It depends. I was just looking for a pic of a thumb graver in my files but all I have is lithic reduction stuff and projectiles

[Piney]

Here's some Archaic-Woodland carving tools.

[Piney]

14 minutes ago, Piney said:

Here's some Archaic-Woodland carving tools.

 

30 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Piney, would you mount a small graver in a handle or just hold it by hand?

Second one, top left is a "thumb graver". 

[BorizBadinov]

So I went to my box of obsidian and flint chunks because everyone has one of those right? First one I pick up I find this little beauty which fit perfectly in my hand. Normally these pieces are junk to me, just leftovers from flaking off bigger pieces. I also had this piece of wood from Italy. I know it is because the crate it was from said so  but I am not sure what it is.

I did a quick pattern and it grooved out very nice. The more you go over it the deeper the groove. Pretty much anything with a sharp edge works and depending on fit you might want a handle. 

[Piney]

1 minute ago, BorizBadinov said:

So I went to my box of obsidian and flint chunks because everyone has one of those right? First one I pick up I find this little beauty which fit perfectly in my hand. Normally these pieces are junk to me, just leftovers from flaking off bigger pieces. I also had this piece of wood from Italy. I know it is because the crate it was from said so  but I am not sure what it is.

With core reduction there is no "junk". Just tools with other uses. 

[BorizBadinov]

Just now, Piney said:

With core reduction there is no "junk". Just tools with other uses. 

My survival instinct has gotten soft 

[BorizBadinov]

11 minutes ago, Piney said:

 

Second one, top left is a "thumb graver". 

I think that one would be my pick. Looks like it would be comfortable and good control.

[Hanslune]

I wonder if someone was teaching some one how to make marks in wood - or was practicing themselves or as noted above 'doddling'.

Would little slivers of woods be of some value - seems like a work for kindling or maybe Kenemet is right it is just an artist experimenting

[Piney]

8 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Would little slivers of woods be of some value

It does smell wonderful when you carve it and burn it. The little slivers could of been a "incense".

 

[BorizBadinov]

10 hours ago, Hanslune said:

I wonder if someone was teaching some one how to make marks in wood - or was practicing themselves or as noted above 'doddling'.

Would little slivers of woods be of some value - seems like a work for kindling or maybe Kenemet is right it is just an artist experimenting

 

2 hours ago, Piney said:

It does smell wonderful when you carve it and burn it. The little slivers could of been a "incense".

 

Just speculating but perhaps it could have been a "list" of people filling a role as chief or shaman? Burn the shavings after carving your mark? 

I have to believe it held some value or it would have ended up in the cook fire probably. Its also interesting they chose a piece with a knothole as that would be harder to carve around but gives a place to hang it on a peg or tie a string through? 

Or is the knothole possibly a drill hole for starting fire? 

[Piney]

2 minutes ago, BorizBadinov said:

I have to believe it held some value or it would have ended up in the cook fire probably.

Certain aromatic woods can make food taste bad or even poison it. Upland red will. The resin actually crystalizes even when sanding it. When we sawed it I always wore a respirator and face shield. 

[fred_mc]

On 2019-04-13 at 6:41 AM, Hanslune said:

The Dsipilio Tablet  is a wooden tablet bearing inscribed markings, unearthed during George Hourmouziadis's excavations of Dispilio in and  carbon 14-dated to 5202 (± 123) BC. It was discovered in 1993 at a neolithic lake shore settlement that occupied an artificial island near the modern village of Dispilio on Lake Kastoria in Greece.

 

https://www.quora.com/What-is-currently-known-of-the-Dispilio-tablet

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispilio_Tablet

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/radiocarbon/article/radiocarbon-dating-of-the-neolithic-lakeside-settlement-of-dispilio-kastoria-northern-greece/759AA29502776E142883F1971293BEB1

http://maajournal.com/Issues/2003/Vol03-2/Full6.pdf

Does anyone have any additional information?

 

 

The lower right part looks like drawings to me. I filled out in a crappy way with Paint what I'm seeing. Looks to me like a cat, birds, possibly deer, and a human (or bear?) on his knees praying to some kind of God, maybe a fire God or a tree God (not sure if the lower part below its big head is flames or tree branches). However, my interpretation might very well be wrong. Anyway, I don't see writing, I see a story in the form of drawings.

 

[fred_mc]

1 hour ago, fred_mc said:

The lower right part looks like drawings to me. I filled out in a crappy way with Paint what I'm seeing. Looks to me like a cat, birds, possibly deer, and a human (or bear?) on his knees praying to some kind of God, maybe a fire God or a tree God (not sure if the lower part below its big head is flames or tree branches). However, my interpretation might very well be wrong. Anyway, I don't see writing, I see a story in the form of drawings.

 

In this post I tried filling out a bit more but I made too many mistakes so I removed it again.

 

Edited April 14, 2019 by fred_mc

[Hanslune]

14 hours ago, BorizBadinov said:

So I went to my box of obsidian and flint chunks because everyone has one of those right? First one I pick up I find this little beauty which fit perfectly in my hand. Normally these pieces are junk to me, just leftovers from flaking off bigger pieces. I also had this piece of wood from Italy. I know it is because the crate it was from said so  but I am not sure what it is.

I did a quick pattern and it grooved out very nice. The more you go over it the deeper the groove. Pretty much anything with a sharp edge works and depending on fit you might want a handle. 

I still have my cores and tools from when I learned stone tool making in '73. Learned on obsidian - have some nice scars from that too....

[BorizBadinov]

4 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

I still have my cores and tools from when I learned stone tool making in '73. Learned on obsidian - have some nice scars from that too....

That's about when I first started knapping. I was looking for points on a riverbank and not finding anything good I started working a piece of agate. When I go camping I usually have some along because what's camping without a little blood?

3 hours ago, Piney said:

Certain aromatic woods can make food taste bad or even poison it. Upland red will. The resin actually crystalizes even when sanding it. When we sawed it I always wore a respirator and face shield. 

Very true, although some cedar is used to cook fish on in the BBQ also. Never tried it myself, more of a hickory fan myself 

The resin is why I thought it might make a good friction tool for starting fires. 

[Hanslune]

2 minutes ago, BorizBadinov said:

That's about when I first started knapping. I was looking for points on a riverbank and not finding anything good I started working a piece of agate. When I go camping I usually have some along because what's camping without a little blood?

Very true, although some cedar is used to cook fish on in the BBQ also. Never tried it myself, more of a hickory fan myself 

The resin is why I thought it might make a good friction tool for starting fires. 

Mastic is good in Greek food also, especially Rizogalo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastic_(plant_resin)#Culinary

I spent enough time on Cyprus, Crete and Rhodes to develop a taste for that particular resin

[Jon101]

The vertical line marked B and the last line are substantially the same.

Repetition suggests a formal system whether 'hunting sign' or other. It has the look of a practise piece, although that is my opinion only.

The signs appear animalistic or at least representative.

[flashman7870]

By itself, the Dispillo tablets are not particularly interesting. They give the vague impression of writing, but they could easily be chicken scratch. What makes it potentially quite interesting is its proximity to the Vinca Signs, the gradeshnitsa tablet, and the Tartaria tablets: all quite well-developed seeming proto-writings, all form a similar region (the Balkans), all from roughly the same era.

I think its very likely that these inscriptions represent proto-writings. As to why they didn't get the chance to develop into full writings? Maybe the Indo-European invasion destroyed these cultures too thouroughly. 

[Piney]

20 minutes ago, flashman7870 said:

I think its very likely that these inscriptions represent proto-writings. As to why they didn't get the chance to develop into full writings? Maybe the Indo-European invasion destroyed these cultures too thouroughly. 

The new theory is the PIE speakers were running from the plague and brought it with them. 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/12/did-new-form-plague-destroy-europe-s-stone-age-societies