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onlookerofmayhem

Atheist vs. Agnostic Label

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XenoFish

I really don't give any credit to the paranormal now. It's too much of a cash cow. People milk it for money or attention. 

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Horta
22 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

I agree. People hold so many opposing viewpoints and I try to understand why they believe or disbelieve each one individually.

I do my best to explain my point of view.

I find that believers in the paranormal/supernatural simply have a much lower threshold to their beliefs in such. 

The worst is when the conversation boils down to, "Well, ya just gotta have faith."

To me, that means you don't have sufficient evidence or reason to back up your belief.

I find it absolutely insane that people believe Jesus rose from the dead. It's so far removed from everything I understand is possible. Without firsthand witnessing, I could never believe such a claim. But the crux of an entire religion depends on having the faith that it actually did happen.

I just read an article about a South African preacher claimed to bring a man back to life.

https://churchleaders.com/news/345138-south-african-pastor-claims-he-raised-a-man-from-the-dead.html

It's mind boggling to see how gullible people can be. It is good to see that he is now under investigation stemming from this incident. 

In another thread someone pointed out a man named Satya Sai Baba as being the main reason the believed in the supernatural. 

So, I looked this guy up and wasn't surprised to see he is shrouded in controversy. 

To me he was a simple magician doing sleight of hand parlor tricks. Coughing up eggs, pulling gold chains out of thin air, manifesting ash and sand out of nowhere. All basic and easily replicated magic tricks. Although the are plenty of other unverified claims to his name.

Yet somehow he has an estimated 100 million!!! followers. And left behind a 5.5 billion dollar fortune.

Does that change my mind about the possibility that he was truly God incarnate? Nope. 

To get it all back to the topic, I agree that agnosticism is a subset of atheism. It's just going deeper into saying that it's impossible to say yes or no.

As someone said earlier, it's about the specific definition. 

I can definitely say, no Thor is not real. There's no guy up there throwing lightning bolts around.

But there are definitions where I would have to say I don't know.

Jesus could have also simply been a 1st century stage magician/illusionist. Though I have doubts the story is based on any particular historical person. It seems more like a collection of different myths, using a fictional hero to place the stories in a historical setting.

Something I usually find with paranormal believers is that they often have an unusually strong emotional element or attachment to their belief. With bigfooters and alien proponents especially, far more so than religious believers, strangely enough. Though I can sympathise with people who feel they have seen a bigfoot for instance, the same as people who believe they have experienced god in some way. I think it is possible to have such experience for various reasons, or at least to believe you have. At least they base their belief on something.

I still find "agnosticism" a bit vague and not clearly or specifically indicative of belief. Though the way it is generally being used does make it seem like another term for atheist. Then again, I see pantheism as another term for atheist too. The only difference being that it uses the words god/universe interchangeably lol.

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Horta
49 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I really don't give any credit to the paranormal now. It's too much of a cash cow. People milk it for money or attention. 

I'm open to the possibility. I just don't see any good evidence of it.

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XenoFish
6 minutes ago, Horta said:

I'm open to the possibility. I just don't see any good evidence of it.

Neither do I. Mostly due to how highly inconsistent it is. If it even exist at all. 

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Golden Duck
On 19/04/2019 at 4:35 PM, Horta said:

It is the only pov that is logical.

The other pov requires something that has never been observed in any physical system. That physical processes can result in something not caused by the process itself/preceding events. That is logically ridiculous.

Only two outcomes are observed in our universe. Causally determined outcomes, and causally indeterminate outcomes.  Both require preceding causes, neither of them can result in free will. Nor can any mixture of the two result in free will. That would be like claiming apples can fall from trees, but they don't have to, it's all irrespective of forces such as gravity.

ps. it's not so much that we are spectators, more that "we" are an illusion (as in something that is not what it seems to be).

Hasn't this been modelled in learning theory? The discussion seems to be comparing conscious competence and unconscious competence. 

You learn the steps and you learn the steps; and then, one day, you learn to dance

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Horta
3 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Hasn't this been modelled in learning theory? The discussion seems to be comparing conscious competence and unconscious competence. 

You learn the steps and you learn the steps; and then, one day, you learn to dance

No, what I'm saying isn't really relevant to that.

It's a causally determined physical system. It all follows the laws of physics underneath it all. There is no magic.

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Will Due
7 minutes ago, Horta said:

It's a causally determined physical system. It all follows the laws of physics underneath it all. 

 

Then if it isn't magic, what or who caused it? 

 

 

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