Notre-Dame cathedral

[+susieice]

I just can't even imagine. All the stained glass windows, the statues, the pillars, the gargoyles, the tombs, the memorials to French history...gone and irreplaceable. Centuries of craftsmanship. No religion involved...I'm having a difficult time grasping all of this right now.

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, RabidMongoose said:

You just went real dark real quick lol

Expect nothing less.

Maybe in the end they'll be something salvageable from the ruins.

[stevewinn]

French minister the building is totally destroyed. 

[freetoroam]

46 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

Tragic the loss of such a beautiful historic building is heartbreaking it matters not if you believe in god. 

I am not religious but have been there a few times.

To quote Xeno

45 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Many of those old structure are a work of art. I often greatly admire the time, energy, and effort that people put into such things.

You have nailed it as i see it.

I love history and old buildings, i always (when i can)  touch the walls, out of respect for  men of great talent from the past,  to those who designed, built and died building these amazing buildings.

They built them in the past and we can touch and see them in the future, until.they are destroyed. 

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by freetoroam

[Duke Wellington]

Rest assured atheists, they have announced they rescued Christs crown of thorns.

[RavenHawk]

8 minutes ago, The Wistman said:

Where the hell was Quasimodo when he was needed?

 

[pallidin]

I have no great love for the Catholic tradition, but I feel their pain with respect to such an iconic, historical structure.

[Wistman]

Part of my heart has died today.  Civilization sometimes achieves beauty and nobility of spirit, regardless of the religion or politics or economics that are part of its making.  This loss is wounding.

[Orphalesion]

I hope there is enough documentation of the various works of art so that as many as possible can be restored/recreated in some way and that there will be enough money to do that.
Of course nothing can replace the original and all. But maybe there's a small hope to be had in the thought that across Europe many priceless works of architecture have been destroyed in wars or by carelessness and have been recreated and with a building like Notre Dame it is certain that it will rise from the ashes.

Is there any word on whether people were able to evacuate some of the artifacts within the church? Or was anything stored outside of the church because of the renovations?

As to how this can happen...it sadly happens during restoration work, it doesn't even need someone to be particularly careless. Somebody made a wrong movement, somebody plugged in something where it shouldn't go, some equipment might have been old or worn out...

And as to whether this is any evidence for or against god....at a time like this I don't really feel like debating that. But I think it very fortunate that this didn't happen on Easter Sunday with the church packed full with people.

[Minimalists]

1 hour ago, stevewinn said:

How is it so combustible? Its a massive empty air space made of stone. The roof might go but surely the rest is survivable. 

From what I heard on the news the inside (interior) is built of timbers I guess that's the reason its burning so fast.....

[stevewinn]

7 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

I hope there is enough documentation of the various works of art so that as many as possible can be restored/recreated in some way and that there will be enough money to do that.
Of course nothing can replace the original and all. But maybe there's a small hope to be had in the thought that across Europe many priceless works of architecture have been destroyed in wars or by carelessness and have been recreated and with a building like Notre Dame it is certain that it will rise from the ashes.

Is there any word on whether people were able to evacuate some of the artifacts within the church? Or was anything stored outside of the church because of the renovations?

As to how this can happen...it sadly happens during restoration work, it doesn't even need someone to be particularly careless. Somebody made a wrong movement, somebody plugged in something where it shouldn't go, some equipment might have been old or worn out...

And as to whether this is any evidence for or against god....at a time like this I don't really feel like debating that. But I think it very fortunate that this didn't happen on Easter Sunday with the church packed full with people.

Apparently all the artworks and treasure was saved by staff and firefighters. If true a slither of good news. 

[Minimalists]

21 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Rest assured atheists, they have announced they rescued Christs crown of thorns.

See no call for this remark....Very unneeded...

[Orphalesion]

1 minute ago, stevewinn said:

Apparently all the artworks and treasure was saved by staff and firefighters. If true a slither of good news. 

That would really be a, sorry for the wording, miracle.
And a tremendous achievement on part of those brave people.

[Michelle]

8 minutes ago, Alien Origins said:

From what I heard on the news the inside (interior) is built of timbers I guess that's the reason its burning so fast.....

52 acres of trees were used to build the roof. It was nicknamed "The Forest".

What a devastating loss. 

[+susieice]

22 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

I hope there is enough documentation of the various works of art so that as many as possible can be restored/recreated in some way and that there will be enough money to do that.
Of course nothing can replace the original and all. But maybe there's a small hope to be had in the thought that across Europe many priceless works of architecture have been destroyed in wars or by carelessness and have been recreated and with a building like Notre Dame it is certain that it will rise from the ashes.

Is there any word on whether people were able to evacuate some of the artifacts within the church? Or was anything stored outside of the church because of the renovations?

As to how this can happen...it sadly happens during restoration work, it doesn't even need someone to be particularly careless. Somebody made a wrong movement, somebody plugged in something where it shouldn't go, some equipment might have been old or worn out...

And as to whether this is any evidence for or against god....at a time like this I don't really feel like debating that. But I think it very fortunate that this didn't happen on Easter Sunday with the church packed full with people.

I did hear some statues had been removed prior to the start of work. I'm thinking they may have been the statues on the spire. I also heard they were saving what artifacts they could. 

 

39 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

French minister the building is totally destroyed. 

I heard speculation that when the roof and spire collapsed, It may have smashed the pillars holding the roof of the nave up. That would have crushed everything inside. I am still hoping that isn't true.

[freetoroam]

33 minutes ago, pallidin said:

I have no great love for the Catholic tradition, but I feel their pain with respect to such an iconic, historical structure.

To many of the French it was the history of Paris which made this building so important. Built on an island it was seen by many as the heart of Paris.

This building meant a lot to people,  religious and not religious.

But for the Catholics, especially this week, a double blow, as if the first blow were not hard enough for all.

 

 

 

[RavenHawk]

Every time we lose such a landmark, civilization takes a step backward.  Enough steps back and a culture falls into anarchy.

[RavenHawk]

Hearing word now that the towers may be saved.

[Orphalesion]

7 minutes ago, susieice said:

I did hear some statues had been removed prior to the start of work. I'm thinking they may have been the statues on the spire. I also heard they were saving what artifacts they could.

Yes, I just read that the statues that decorated the spire had, fortunately, been removed for the restoration and are safe:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/notre-dame-cathedral-paris-fire-1.5098604

[freetoroam]

31 minutes ago, Alien Origins said:

From what I heard on the news the inside (interior) is built of timbers I guess that's the reason its burning so fast.....

Plus the building was surrounded by scaffolding, i would imaging once the metal had heated up,  with the amount of wood and centuries old materials,  it would have spread quickly and intensely downwards.

Apparently it started in the roof area. There was a sermon going on below and visitors inside, the smoke was noticed from outside,  coming from the roof.

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by freetoroam

[Orphalesion]

I hope what happened to the Frauenkirche Chruch in Dresden doesn't happen to Notre Dame...tha church survived the bombing of Dresden in World War II, but the heat from the surrounding fires made the stone so porous that the great dome shattered a few days later and it became a ruin. 
It would be absolutely terrible if the same happened to parts of (let alone the whole of) the cathedral.

[RavenHawk]

If things stay as they are now, come Easter the bells will ring louder than they ever had before.

[+OverSword]

1 hour ago, freetoroam said:

Yeah i know.

Was really replying to the Jesus question.

To me this is a shocker as i have been there many times and it meant a lot to my catholic French relatives.

There are the obvious questions of how could this posibly happen,  this has happened at a very religious time of year for the religious people, do they question how could their god let this happen? Anytime would be bad enough, but around Easter is even worse.

LOL!  Maybe it's a warning.

[Kenemet]

2 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

I agree that it is probably from renovation.  Somebody was still drunk from the weekend.  However, to consider other possibilities, Islamic Hijrah is one, but also it could be that the YellowJackets are responsible.  But it could also be Macron trying to eradicate a backward religion and will fiddle while it burns and blame his political opponents.  Not good in any case.  It is a loss of world culture.

How do you propose that they got on the roof in the middle of the workday?

Because that's where it started.

2 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

Here's the thing: if this was committed by a migrant/Muslim/terrorist/minority, they probably wouldn't tell you for fear that some patriot would retaliate by burning down a Mosque. There are countless examples of under reporting or mis-reporting of migrant crimes to soften public tension. This fire may have been caused by renovators. Or it might have been caused by someone else, given the widespread desecration of cemeteries and Churchs in France. 

Seriously now.  It started in the middle of the day.  In broad daylight.  On the roof.

The idea that some migrant runs up to a work site and scales the roof to start a fire (and nobody notices) doesn't make a lot of sense.  Work crews know when some unlicensed dolt shows up, and they'd certainly notice where this person went.

[Kenemet]

I'm horrified and heartbroken.  I hope they could save the objects inside, but ... wow.  Watching history turn to ash in front of our eyes...