Notre-Dame cathedral

[RavenHawk]

 

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by RavenHawk

[+susieice]

According to a recent update by ABC News, firefighters have said the building's main structure and the towers have been saved.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/fire-breaks-paris-notre-dame-cathedral/story?id=62411000

Edited April 15, 2019 by susieice

[RavenHawk]

3 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

How do you propose that they got on the roof in the middle of the workday?

Because that's where it started.

Seriously now.  It started in the middle of the day.  In broad daylight.  On the roof.

The idea that some migrant runs up to a work site and scales the roof to start a fire (and nobody notices) doesn't make a lot of sense.  Work crews know when some unlicensed dolt shows up, and they'd certainly notice where this person went.

How do you think?  Don't you think that a possible saboteur can be a licensed workman?  As I said, I don't think that is what happened but it helps to explore the possibilities.  I believe it was a stupid accident started by a licensed dolt not watching what he was doing.

[Eldorado]

There was an urgent appeal to save the building last year...

"The Catholic Church in France has launched an urgent appeal for funds, to save Notre Dame cathedral.

Parts of the 850-year-old Gothic masterpiece are starting to crumble, because of pollution eating the stone, and there are fears the structure could become unstable."

Video at the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-43258266/notre-dame-cracks-in-the-cathedral

"Crumbling Notre Dame Cathedral Seeks US Donors to Repair It"

At Newsmax: https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/notre-dame-paris-monuments-catholicism/2018/03/20/id/849792/

Am always suspicious when "crumbling" buildings catch fire.

 

[Kenemet]

7 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

How do you think?  Don't you think that a possible saboteur can be a licensed workman?  As I said, I don't think that is what happened but it helps to explore the possibilities.  I believe it was a stupid accident started by a licensed dolt not watching what he was doing.

Responding agencies all report that it seems to be an accident.  However, in our current Information Firehose age which is rife with badly constructed conspiracy memes all over the place, it seems that people are rushing in to speculate without getting even the basic facts (beyond "fire, Notre Dame").  My personal opinion is that it's particularly irresponsible to start blaming groups (tempting as it is.)

It does a lot of harm, as the parents of Sandy Hook can tell you.

[freetoroam]

7 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

How do you think?  Don't you think that a possible saboteur can be a licensed workman?  

If it had started below it might have been posible, but as it started on the roof it seems much less likely. Reason is a terrorist arsonist would be more inclined to start a fire lower ground as fire rises. 

If there had been lots of workmen there at the time,, one at least would have noticed the smoke, so a chance it could have been put out. If there was only a.couple of guys or one on that area,,then it should not be too difficult on tracking who was working within that area at the time.

Maybe this is what they are looking into wirhin their investigation , but not saying they are looking for a terrorist, am saying they are looking for the workman.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

It has burned in the past, it will burn again.

It was a triumph of human ingenuity and creativity, but that ingenuity and creativity has not been lost, it will be rebuilt. 

Weep for what was lost. Marvel at what is to come.

[RavenHawk]

1 minute ago, Kenemet said:

Responding agencies all report that it seems to be an accident.  However, in our current Information Firehose age which is rife with badly constructed conspiracy memes all over the place, it seems that people are rushing in to speculate without getting even the basic facts (beyond "fire, Notre Dame").  My personal opinion is that it's particularly irresponsible to start blaming groups (tempting as it is.)

It does a lot of harm, as the parents of Sandy Hook can tell you.

No one is blaming any group.  Just considering the wide range of possibilities.  Before anyone is blamed.

[Orphalesion]

6 minutes ago, Eldorado said:

There was an urgent appeal to save the building last year...

"The Catholic Church in France has launched an urgent appeal for funds, to save Notre Dame cathedral.

Parts of the 850-year-old Gothic masterpiece are starting to crumble, because of pollution eating the stone, and there are fears the structure could become unstable."

Video at the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-43258266/notre-dame-cracks-in-the-cathedral

"Crumbling Notre Dame Cathedral Seeks US Donors to Repair It"

At Newsmax: https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/notre-dame-paris-monuments-catholicism/2018/03/20/id/849792/

Am always suspicious when "crumbling" buildings catch fire.

 

Thing is the Gothic Cathedrals of Europe are constantly crumbling.,due to the (relatively) soft kinds of stone used in many of them and their location in large cities were they suffer from pollution and pigeon droppings. So them falling apart or deperate pleas to safe them are not anything completely new. There's hardly a year when the largest church in my home town doesn't have some part covered in scaffolding with construction going on to prevent it from being dissolved away by the various environmental hazards.

And especially with Notre Dame I think it's destruction and reconstruction, especially considering the potential damage to tourism in Paris resulting from it, might be much more expensive than a restoration.

[RavenHawk]

3 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

If it had started below it might have been posible, but as it started on the roof it seems much less likely. Reason is a terrorist arsonist would be more inclined to start a fire lower ground as fire rises. 

If there had been lots of workmen there at the time,, one at least would have noticed the smoke, so a chance it could have been put out. If there was only a.couple of guys or one on that area,,then it should not be too difficult on tracking who was working within that area at the time.

Maybe this is what they are looking into wirhin their investigation , but not saying they are looking for a terrorist, am saying they are looking for the workman.

If a terrorist was part of the work force would wait til quitting time and hide while the crew is leaving.  Where's Jacques? I think he already left...  Then start the fire and then disappear.

[freetoroam]

14 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

No one is blaming any group.  Just considering the wide range of possibilities.  Before anyone is blamed.

Sometimes speculating over posibilties can create much harm.  Some people do not need facts or are prepared for the investigation results to start a vendetta against  any group mentioned in the speculation list.

Just planting the seed will set some people off.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by freetoroam

[RavenHawk]

1 minute ago, freetoroam said:

Sometimes speculating on posibilties can create much harm.  Some people do not need facts or are prepared for the investigation results to start a vendetta against  any group mentioned in the speculation list.

Just planting the seed will set some people off.

 

 

Evidently is set you off.  Some people consider the worse so that what actually happened doesn't sound so bad.  Do you think that whether or not one speculates really matters for someone intent on starting a vendetta?  That's giving in to the Dark Force.

[freetoroam]

12 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Evidently is set you off

Not at all, just saying, thats all.

12 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Some people consider the worse so that what actually happened doesn't sound so bad.  

Huh? why would anyone  think of something worse to make the lesser seem not as bad? Thats messed up thinking.

12 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Do you think that whether or not one speculates really matters for someone intent on starting a vendetta? 

Yes it does matter. By mentioning a group, you give those who want to vent at someone, a particular group to go for and as they get their 'guide"  from.someone else,,they use this an excuse to create a vendetta as they feel they are only doing what others want to, but can't.

 

They feel they will have the support from others as the seed is sown by someone else and what they are doing is keeping it watered.

[RAyMO]

3 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

Did Nostradamus predict it?

good question. I bet you by tomorrow he did

but in all serious though a very sad loss, the loss of any architecture of that age anywhere in the world is a true shame. The building may be replaceable, but the ambience of the 850 year old building will be irreplaceable. 

[acute]

"We can rebuild it. We have the technology."

[acute]

6 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

The building may be replaceable, but the ambience of the 850 year old building will be irreplaceable. 

They will almost certainly replicate it from 3D scans  (I hope!)  but you can never replace the original.

Now..... We all need to get to the Taj Mahal before it sinks, and the Leaning Tower of Pisa before they straighten it.

Edited April 15, 2019 by acute

[+susieice]

I found this uploaded by CBS News less than half an hour ago. It has two pictures from inside the cathedral. The stonework looks to be intact.

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-news/notre-dame-cathedral-fire-paris-collapse-live-updates-today-2019-04-15/

[+susieice]

Here are the 4 pictures released. The interior seems to be pretty intact.

https://wgntv.com/2019/04/15/stunning-photos-from-inside-notre-dame-cathedral-released/

[+Not A Rockstar]

Various reports seem to confirm that many artifacts and relics were saved, perhaps all the main ones. I even heard the organ is still there, so perhaps we will have more left to work with than is feared.

May this deep hurt and loss bring us all together a bit more than before it happened. That would be a pleasant miracle  

[+susieice]

5 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Various reports seem to confirm that many artifacts and relics were saved, perhaps all the main ones. I even heard the organ is still there, so perhaps we will have more left to work with than is feared.

May this deep hurt and loss bring us all together a bit more than before it happened. That would be a pleasant miracle  

I have the local news on right now and they showed a picture that was released of the artifacts saved. It seems there was some collapse of the ceiling in the nave, but not a lot of fire. That saved the woodworking. It wasn't as bad as it originally sounded. Those windows though, those beautiful stained glass windows. A heartbreaking loss. The French firemen did an amazing job today. The news reported one injured but nothing about their condition.

Edited April 16, 2019 by susieice

[CrimsonKing]

8 hours ago, Raptor Witness said:

How sad ..... one would think that in Paris they would have flying water tankers at the ready.

 

Can't do that on such an old structure,the enormous amount of weight of a tanker of water would have collapsed the structure for certain!

That said,i'm not a religious fella,but this was a catastrophic loss from a historical and architectual standpoint...a BAD loss no matter how ya look at it!

All the credit in the world goes to those brave souls fighting the fire and those putting themselves at risk to save priceless historical items!

This was ****ing horrible...

[CrimsonKing]

5 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

It has burned in the past, it will burn again.

It was a triumph of human ingenuity and creativity, but that ingenuity and creativity has not been lost, it will be rebuilt. 

Weep for what was lost. Marvel at what is to come.

I agree to a point...

Just seems like in our modern world we always seem to try a little too little...

We try and honor a lost history,with some kinda fantastic,futuristic,bull s*** in some kinda random "honor" and make a wasted funds pile of crap everyone tries their best to avoid!

Throw up some steel beams,drywall the interior,and throw some aluminum on the outside and....WALLA!!!

A damn donation stand for people to "remember" at as their tax dollars or tourists dollars are fed into a government wasteland!...

Sorry if i come across as cynical,just seen it happen more than i'd care to for 1 lifetime...

[RavenHawk]

So from the pictures I see.  It appears that the majority of the fire was limited to the massive wooden roof and the inner vaulted rib structure may have saved more than what was thought.  But I keep hearing different stories as to what was lost and saved inside.

[RavenHawk]

7 hours ago, freetoroam said:

Not at all, just saying, thats all.

And yet...

7 hours ago, freetoroam said:

Huh? why would anyone  think of something worse to make the lesser seem not as bad? Thats messed up thinking.

Hardly messed up thinking.  If you consider the worse case and it doesn't happen, then you've dodged a bullet.  If it is the worse case, then you've already begun to prepare yourself and it's not such a shock.  You can then keep your exposure.  Besides, accident or not, it just seems suspicious happening right before the two biggest religious days in Christendom.

7 hours ago, freetoroam said:

Yes it does matter. By mentioning a group, you give those who want to vent at someone, a particular group to go for and as they get their 'guide"  from.someone else,,they use this an excuse to create a vendetta as they feel they are only doing what others want to, but can't.

 

They feel they will have the support from others as the seed is sown by someone else and what they are doing is keeping it watered.

This is just an excuse.  If someone has it out for someone else, they don't need any other external stimuli.  Trump uses rhetoric to make a point.  Others like Waters and other Progressives give groups like Antifa marching orders.  This is not rhetoric; it is hate speech.  There is a clear difference.  Discussing possibilities is one thing, but expressing hate speech is another.

[Space Commander Travis]

M. Macron is talking about rebuilding it by public subscription and what have you, but that rather misses the point doesn't it. It's the history embodied in it, everything that it contains. To just rebuild it would just be constructing a replica that looks like the original, but has none of its history. The roof would be new, the spire would be new, the only thing that would be original would be the bare walls.