Notre-Dame cathedral

[TigerBright19]

12 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Haven’t the reports been saying that it was the workmen that called it in originally and that it was the fire dept that had to escort them out?  So now, could it have been a cigarette butt carelessly discarded while erecting the scaffolding?  Or could a scaffolding support bar have slipped and punctured the roof and damaged electrical wiring up underneath the roof being used for lighting, etc?  For that matter, it could have been a mouse chewing through electrical wiring??

Wikipedia says:

'In 1991: A discreet system of electrical wires, not visible from below, was installed on the roof to deter pigeons.'

Perhaps the hidden wires were cut by accident and set the roof on fire.

 

[+susieice]

According to CNN, the construction companies are adamant that none of their employees were present at the Cathedral when the fire was discovered. They are also saying that twice fire alarms went off. The first at 6:20 caused an evacuation but no fire was seen on inspection. The second, twenty minutes later, was when security officers saw the fire.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/17/europe/notre-dame-fire-investigation-intl/index.html

[Setton]

52 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

could it have been a cigarette butt carelessly discarded while erecting the scaffolding? 

That's where I'd put my money. Everyone and his hamster smokes in France. 

[Timothy]

On 17/04/2019 at 12:24 AM, South Alabam said:

There are enough funds coming in to restore it to its previous splendor, but a new building would not be the same, no doubt.

Well I do hope it is less flammable...

[pallidin]

8 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Yes, it is my opinion.  I don’t see it as a ‘most irresponsible perception’.  All cultures have the seeds for self-destruction within them.  No matter how prosperous one is, there is always a segment intent on its downfall.

 

Segment? There are segments of culture that are extremely psychotic, but by no means does it define the entire culture.

For many thousands of years, society has ways of dealing with psychos which go too far, and has applied these methods.

How you think entire society always tends to seek self-destruction is, well, bizarre and patently untrue.

 

[+susieice]

Now I'm hearing estimates of 15 yrs to complete although they hope to have it opened for tourists by the 2024 Paris Olympics.

Edited April 18, 2019 by susieice

[Raptor Witness]

It’s Easter week, donations are way down, due to all the sex scandals.

Perhaps someone took a page from another playbook....

 

[freetoroam]

11 hours ago, Michelle said:

. Having an eye for such things, they look like cheap knockoffs, even when rebuilt as closely as possible, 

I do hope your steam train engines do not look like cheap knockoffs. 

With money and the building it is and in view of what has just happened, i doubt they will be using Jean Claude Botchit and making it out of MDF. 

But it will be the designers who count here as they will be drawing up the plans of how the work should look like, the builders will be following their designs. 

I hope it will be based on the original as it would not surprise me if they decide to go down a different route of mixing modern with old and change the look. Baring in mind this time round they will have to make it fireproof and down the  H&S route,, which is different from the past and i can imagine metal beams would be used instead of wood. 

Anything they build today will look like new, even if designed in the old look, so they may decide to go down the whole new modern culture route.

This could be an architects dream and i would take a guess there are many queueing up to get their designs in and if the younger generation get to have a say,, they may approve of a more modern look.

I go a couple of times a year to the natural history museum and the  British museum, i was a regular visitor to them when i lived in London so knew them prior to the add ons,  they have added the modern to the old and they look pretty spectacular.

Done right, it could work. 

Just a thought.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by freetoroam

[+susieice]

Who would have thought? They say the man may be emotionally disturbed. Really??? The last time I was there was somewhere around 2009 and you couldn't take bags or backpacks inside. Your purse was checked.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-gas-cans-arrested-new-york-s-famed-st-patrick-n995701

[Space Commander Travis]

On 17/04/2019 at 7:06 AM, marsman said:

Notre Dame cathedral will be rebuilt within five years and ‘even better than before’, pledges Macron

'It is up to us to change this disaster into an opportunity to come together,' French president says

French president Emmanuel Macron promised that Notre Dame will be renovated within five years and will be “even better than before”, after the catastrophic fire that ravaged much of the building.

 

 

just shows what an egotistical little ***ck he is doesn't it. That's exactly the kind of thing The Amazing Donald would say, and everyone would laugh at him for it. "It'll be yuuuuuge!! Even yuuger and greater than ever before!"

Edited April 18, 2019 by Vlad the Mighty

[Space Commander Travis]

On 17/04/2019 at 7:25 AM, marsman said:

 

The Empire State Building was built in just over 13 months. The new One World Trade Center was built in five years.

Notre Dam just needs a new roof and spire....plus a damned good clean

 

 

Yes, but skyscrapers, even deeply symbolically very tall ones, are constructed by effectively mass-production techniques, using steel and concrete and stuff. Things like cathedrals are built using stone that's specially selected and carved by craftsmen and, crucially, timbers that were very carefully selected and, most importantly, seasoned. Using unseasoned green timber would be a disaster waiting to happen. It'd take longer than M. Macron's rushed timescale to season it properly. 

[RoofGardener]

11 hours ago, F3SS said:

Did I say this yet? On the cause, I've seen house fires on the local news take longer to investigate than this. While the smoke was still billowing the other night the news scroll was saying Prosecutors: Not Arson.

Prosecutors? Uhm whatever but seriously, they be (presumably French authorities) were doing backflips to get the word out about NOT ARSON.  I know why they were doing it but it's not right because they simply didn't/don't know. Announce a pending investigation and let people figure out how to behave themselves in the meantime. 

Hmm.. I would imagine that the "French Authorities" moved quickly to quell any rumours about Arson, lest it create a public backlash against muslims. 

11 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Haven’t the reports been saying that it was the workmen that called it in originally and that it was the fire dept that had to escort them out?  So now, could it have been a cigarette butt carelessly discarded while erecting the scaffolding?  Or could a scaffolding support bar have slipped and punctured the roof and damaged electrical wiring up underneath the roof being used for lighting, etc?  For that matter, it could have been a mouse chewing through electrical wiring??

I can only assume that these reports where false ? Either that, or the "workmen" in question where nothing to due with the roof renovation ? 

Hmm.. mouse chewing through cables... an intriguing thought. 

[bee]

32 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmm.. I would imagine that the "French Authorities" moved quickly to quell any rumours about Arson, lest it create a public backlash against muslims. 

this is obviously why they have said they have ruled out arson... but the public aren't stupid and
I think resent that kind of social engineering... before any proper investigations have even begun..
it would have been more honest to just say investigations will be lengthy and all possibilties will
be looked at... ruling out arson before any investigation makes it look like they actually think it
IS arson...

I think it's safe to say that even if it was an Islamic State inspired attack... the public will never be told..

it's like the Islamic Jihad is continuing fairly unabated under the surface and the 'authorities' are hoping
it runs out of steam at some point (which seems unlikely).... and are keeping it out of the public mind
as much as possible..

[skliss]

8 hours ago, susieice said:

Who would have thought? They say the man may be emotionally disturbed. Really??? The last time I was there was somewhere around 2009 and you couldn't take bags or backpacks inside. Your purse was checked.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-gas-cans-arrested-new-york-s-famed-st-patrick-n995701

As always, some copy cat hater tries to join in. I've been to St Patrick's, it's beautiful!

[freetoroam]

20 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

So there where no obvious ignition sources (if the source is correct)... no welding, no grinding sparks etc. 

But there were electrics. There was not in the spire, but there were  sensors in place. All were wired up. The roof area is very dark so lighting would have been in place. 

Could have been an electrical fault. It would make more sense as electrical faults can happen any time. 

20 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

So no obvious ignition source. And none of the staff involved in the scaffolding where on-site

Obvious?? I would not think there would be seeing as that area burned and collapsed. Highly unlikely they will find the 'ignition source' among that carbage. 

[aztek]

38 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

But there were electrics.

yea, roof mounted birds repel wire was installed in 1991, that is a low current system,  unless damaged or altered it can't set such fire. it could be altered\damaged by accident, due to negligence, or on purpose.  such systems are installed in thousands of buildings, i have not heard of it being a source of fire much, have you?

Edited April 18, 2019 by aztek

[Setton]

9 hours ago, bee said:

this is obviously why they have said they have ruled out arson... but the public aren't stupid and
I think resent that kind of social engineering... before any proper investigations have even begun..
it would have been more honest to just say investigations will be lengthy and all possibilties will
be looked at... ruling out arson before any investigation makes it look like they actually think it
IS arson...

I think it's safe to say that even if it was an Islamic State inspired attack... the public will never be told..

it's like the Islamic Jihad is continuing fairly unabated under the surface and the 'authorities' are hoping
it runs out of steam at some point (which seems unlikely).... and are keeping it out of the public mind
as much as possible..

I'd say it takes a deeply twisted and frankly very suspicious person to see a cathedral burned down and instantly assume it would be 'the Muslims'. 

[aztek]

no, it takes a twisted minded  idiot not to see his culture being taken over, and completely ignore it.

it may or may not be that, but the suspicions are founded, especially when gvmnt says arson ruled out before any investigation is over., even started

Edited April 18, 2019 by aztek

[+susieice]

Current thinking is being reported as an electrical short circuit.

http://time.com/5573355/notre-dame-fire-cause-electrical-short-circuit/

[freetoroam]

31 minutes ago, aztek said:

yea, roof mounted birds repel wire was installed in 1991, that is a low current system,  unless damaged or altered it can't set such fire. it could be altered\damaged by accident, due to negligence, or on purpose.  such systems are installed in thousands of buildings, i have not heard of it being a source of fire much, have you?

Sorry i did not mean the bird repel wires. There were sensors all around incase of fire. These did go off. Twice.

Quote

New reports indicate that the fire was not immediately discovered after the first alarms went off at the church at 6:20 p.m. local time. It wasn’t until 23 minutes later, when a second alarm sounded, that the blaze was located, 

Apparently there were many sensors because of fire risk. These are electric. 

Was speaking to my mum who spoke to her brother who lives in Paris, many believe it was an electrical fault. Although no electrics in the spire, they were there in many places. Plus lighting would have been used as in some areas it is very dark up there.

[Setton]

32 minutes ago, aztek said:

no, it takes a twisted minded  idiot not to see his culture being taken over, and completely ignore it.

it may or may not be that, but the suspicions are founded, especially when gvmnt says arson ruled out before any investigation is over., even started

And it takes an idiot on the other side of the world to think Alex Jones is a substitute for living here. 

You're in the wrong board to discuss crackpot conspiracies. 

[aztek]

2 minutes ago, Setton said:

And it takes an idiot on the other side of the world to think Alex Jones is a substitute for living here. 

You're in the wrong board to discuss crackpot conspiracies. 

wow, spoken like a true idiot, bringing up irrelevant things, is a sure sign of that, go ahead type more b.s. it is not like you can do anything else

[marsman]

it was caused by an electrical fault....its all over the news

why is this thread dragging on? stuff gets burnt down every day

churches and cathedrals are not exempt!!!!

get a grip people.....none of you cared about it before it burnt......so why care now?

 

[aztek]

4 minutes ago, marsman said:

it was caused by an electrical fault....its all over the news

why is this thread dragging on? stuff gets burnt down every day

churches and cathedrals are not exempt!!!!

get a grip people.....none of you cared about it before it burnt......so why care now?

 

really? investigators are not even allowed in yet, but MSM already knows?  

Quote

 

(PARIS) — A French judicial police official said investigators think an electrical short-circuit most likely caused Notre Dame Cathedral fire.

The official, who spoke anonymously about the ongoing investigation, said investigators still don’t have the green light to work in the cathedral and search in the rubble for safety reasons.

 

btw what happens to "we Brits are the best" thread you had going yesterday? i was looking forward to more, it was hilarious, where is it? i forgot what section it was in, can you point to it?

Edited April 18, 2019 by aztek

[RoofGardener]

52 minutes ago, susieice said:

Current thinking is being reported as an electrical short circuit.

http://time.com/5573355/notre-dame-fire-cause-electrical-short-circuit/

That Time story represents VERY unprofessional reporting. 

The investigators are not on site yet. The un-named "French official" is PURELY guessing.