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Notre-Dame cathedral


keithisco

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1 minute ago, aztek said:

really? investigators are not even allowed in yet, but MSM already knows?  

btw what happens to "we Brits are the best" thread you had going yesterday? i was looking forward more, it was hilarious, where is it? i forgot what section it was in, can you point to it?

 

try google for.....what caused the fire

who said Brits are best?..... i simply posted the words FROM YOUR OWN EX PRESIDENTS MOUTH

deal with it

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8 minutes ago, marsman said:

it was caused by an electrical fault....its all over the news

why is this thread dragging on? stuff gets burnt down every day

churches and cathedrals are not exempt!!!!

get a grip people.....none of you cared about it before it burnt......so why care now?

 

And the news is wrong. They are propagating PURE guesswork. 

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Just now, marsman said:

 

try google for.....what caused the fire

 

again, seriously? lmao google knows?  wow, are you that stupid for real, or you trolling?

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1 minute ago, marsman said:

 

 

who said Brits are best?..... i simply posted the words FROM YOUR OWN EX PRESIDENTS MOUTH

deal with it

YOU DID SAY THAT

what did he say? that we wage many wars?? so did UK, and i proved that yesterday.  

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6 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

And the news is wrong. They are propagating PURE guesswork. 

 

who gives a crap about an old building with supports made from old dry wood.....that burnt down?   what is YOUR INTEREST in it?    dont you have a girlfriend to spend time with?    or is an old building more important?    :lol:

 

 

 

 

Edited by marsman
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18 minutes ago, marsman said:

it was caused by an electrical fault....its all over the news

why is this thread dragging on? stuff gets burnt down every day

churches and cathedrals are not exempt!!!!

get a grip people.....none of you cared about it before it burnt......so why care now?

 

Well i did care a bit, but my relatives over there cared a lot. 

My mums brother is still  quite upset, they are catholics and it was more than just a religious thing. They are quite proud of their old buildings in respect to those who built them. 

My mums family come from the centre of France, lots of history and Joan Of Arc stories, even a tree named after her. Notre Dame to many French meant a lot, to me i felt for my mums brother and cousins who live in Paris. 

The thing which get them the most is, had it been a natural disaster, then it would have been accepted as - one of those things man can not prevent, but an electrical fault - that could have been, should have been prevented.

Apparently regulations were very strict in due of the building, they are just shocked how something went so wrong.

A disgarded cigarette was mentioned earlier as a posible reason, from what i have been told, absolutely no way was smoking permitted and the workers would of been told that with an iron tongue.

 

Edited by freetoroam
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6 minutes ago, aztek said:

again, seriously? lmao google knows?  wow, are you that stupid for real, or you trolling?

 

well dont google then......lets look at other possibilities......the hunchback did it......or maybe aliens......no wait......it was the devil himself....

happy now?

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10 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

And the news is wrong. They are propagating PURE guesswork. 

Not quite. The spire did not have electrics in , but inside is very dark. Apart from lighting needed, there were many fire sensors located around. There were electrics up there. The reason why they believe it to be an electrical fault is because, apart from the workmen, that was all which was up there to cause a fire. The workmen did not work with candles and the sensors were not attached by string to the lower ground. 

 

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3 minutes ago, marsman said:

 

well dont google then......lets look at other possibilities......the hunchback did it......or maybe aliens......no wait......it was the devil himself....

happy now?

i guess that answers my question, thanks, lol

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11 minutes ago, marsman said:

 

who gives a crap about an old building with supports made from old dry wood.....that burnt down?   what is YOUR INTEREST in it?    dont you have a girlfriend to spend time with?    or is an old building more important?    :lol:

who gives a crap ? Well, pretty much everybody except yourself, it would seem ? 

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7 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

Not quite. The spire did not have electrics in , but inside is very dark. Apart from lighting needed, there were many fire sensors located around. There were electrics up there. The reason why they believe it to be an electrical fault is because, apart from the workmen, that was all which was up there to cause a fire. The workmen did not work with candles and the sensors were not attached by string to the lower ground. 

 

all true,  however just presence of electrical systems and workers does not mean they are responsible, they may or they may not.  investigation will  find a cause, and probably report it.

i tend to think it was negligence on workers part,  you know why i think so, i work in construction, i hire vendors and GC (general contractor)  and GC will hire people that somewhat know what needs to be done, in theory, but do not really care, and they pay them little. they screw up lots of things on daily basis,  many do not even read English, and can't read instructions on a bag of cement they are mixing, i do not think your construction industry is much different.   

Edited by aztek
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Just now, aztek said:

i guess that answers my question, thanks, lol

 

seems i took your argument away....bet you feel like a real jerk now dont you?

it wasnt aliens....or the hunchback....or the devil....it was JUST A FREAKIN FIRE

fires happen EVERY DAY....ALL AROUND THE WORLD........hardly an unexplained mystery.......is it?

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4 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

who gives a crap ? Well, pretty much everybody except yourself, it would seem ? 

 

oh.....how much money have you donated for its rebuilding?

hypocrite

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Just now, marsman said:

 

seems i took your argument away....bet you feel like a real jerk now dont you?

 

I actually feel great, a dumby is shown his place, it's an overwhelmingly great feeling

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20 minutes ago, aztek said:

I tend to think it was negligence on workers part,

This is the general thought by many.

A fault in the wiring could have gone off anytime. Switching something off or on as the workers were leaving? A spark could take ages before a full blown fire takes hold.

 

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15 hours ago, freetoroam said:

I do hope your steam train engines do not look like cheap knockoffs:D

With money and the building it is and in view of what has just happened, i doubt they will be using Jean Claude Botchit and making it out of MDF. 

But it will be the designers who count here as they will be drawing up the plans of how the work should look like, the builders will be following their designs. 

I hope it will be based on the original as it would not surprise me if they decide to go down a different route of mixing modern with old and change the look. Baring in mind this time round they will have to make it fireproof and down the  H&S route,, which is different from the past and i can imagine metal beams would be used instead of wood. 

Anything they build today will look like new, even if designed in the old look, so they may decide to go down the whole new modern culture route.

This could be an architects dream and i would take a guess there are many queueing up to get their designs in and if the younger generation get to have a say,, they may approve of a more modern look.

I go a couple of times a year to the natural history museum and the  British museum, i was a regular visitor to them when i lived in London so knew them prior to the add ons,  they have added the modern to the old and they look pretty spectacular.

Done right, it could work. 

Just a thought.:)

 

 

:lol: No, but like I said it's extremely expensive to do it right.

That is usually the solution to things almost impossible to replicate.

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the only reason it will be next to impossible to replicate is cuz we lost skills to do it.  we can find wood, or even replace with engineered wood, and it wont look any different, but it took skills to build wooden structure that stood for 800 years. that we can not do anymore.   even worst that trade skills, be it woodwork, or stone mason, were  protected, there is no book on how to do it, even schematics from ancient times mostly deliberately altered so the design does not work unless you know what to change,  Leonardo's drawing have such tricks

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4 minutes ago, Michelle said:

:lol: No, but like I said it's extremely expensive to do it right.

That is usually the solution to things almost impossible to replicate.

I think it will be the solution here.

I can see the architects  itching to get  their plans on the table.. The money will be there, the billionaires will see to that. 

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16 minutes ago, aztek said:

the only reason it will be next to impossible to replicate is cuz we lost skills to do it.  we can find wood, or even replace with engineered wood, and it wont look any different, but it took skills to build wooden structure that stood for 800 years that we can not do anymore. 

We do not need the (same)  skills of the past today because the tools are not the same and neither are the designs.. But skills are still needed, to use the modern tools correctly and to still be able to build.

There are many carpenters and stone masons today with just as much, if not more skills of the men from the past, just because they do not have centuries behind them,  does not mean they are not as good.

As i said before, what is different today is the designs in our buildings. I prefer the older style by far, but men can replicate them with as much, if not more skill as today they will be fire proof and built to h&s regulations, which many old buildings were not.

It had 800 years of time behind it, there is nothing to say some  buildings of today can not build anything which will not last 800 years.

But remember, Notre-Dame has not stood for 800 years without any restorations, why do you think this time all that scaffolding was up there in the first place? It has had much work done on it over the years and was still crumbling in parts. .

Today they would not build without it being safer. 

There is also the materials. The upper structure was made of stone which would not be used today. The reason they did not put water on it initially was because the stone they used would have practically turned to sand as it was already hot. Can not remember where the stone was from, but my uncle has been to the region and area and he is really the expert on that side. 

 

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1 hour ago, marsman said:

 

oh.....how much money have you donated for its rebuilding?

hypocrite

After careful research, I have come to the conclusion that you are a buffoon ! 

Edited by RoofGardener
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10 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

 

There are many carpenters and stone masons today with just as much, if not more skills of the men from the past, just because they do not have centuries behind them,  does not mean they are not as good.

 

yes, i'm sure there are many , but their skills are not same as hundreds of years ago.

we can no longer make steel blades as blacksmiths did  hundreds of years ago. 

we can no longer make paint  on wooden icons stay for hundreds of years without fading,

hell i can't find a single contractor today who can build steam heating system that would work like systems from hundred of years ago,  or even fix existing ones so it does not bang all the time, 

you will never find a person today that can build a a house around stove, and have that stove warm entire house, with air ducts build into walls, and that wont kill you with carbon monoxide. and will heat every room equally. 

but you are right, we have different ways of doing things now,  but it is still sad that so many skills are lost.   today it seems like we no longer care of the quality of work we perform.  maybe it is not only skills, but entire attitude

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7 minutes ago, aztek said:

yes, i'm sure there are many , but their skills are not same as hundreds of years ago.

we can no longer make steel blades as blacksmiths did  hundreds of years ago. 

we can no longer make paint  on wooden icons stay for hundreds of years without fading,

hell i can't find a single contractor today who can build steam heating system that would work like systems from hundred of years ago,  or even fix existing ones so it does not bang all the time, 

you will never find a person today that can build a a house around stove, and have that stove warm entire house, with air ducts build into walls, and that wont kill you with carbon monoxide. and will heat every room equally. 

but you are right, we have different ways of doing things now,  but it is still sad that so many skills are lost.   today it seems like we no longer care of the quality of work we perform.  maybe it is not only skills, but entire attitude

I think that is unduly pessimistic, @aztek. We may not know how to make a steel blade like they did hundreds of years ago. But we can make them better .. if we put our minds to it. :) 

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4 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

I think that is unduly pessimistic, @aztek. We may not know how to make a steel blade like they did hundreds of years ago. But we can make them better .. if we put our minds to it. :) 

that is highly realistic actually,  

we could but we do not, putting our mind where it belongs seems to be the greatest skills we lost.  

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