Notre-Dame cathedral

['Walt' E. Kurtz]

 

 France seems to go through a rough time. the cathedral is of much significance

Edited April 16, 2019 by Impedancer

[Orphalesion]

38 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

M. Macron is talking about rebuilding it by public subscription and what have you, but that rather misses the point doesn't it. It's the history embodied in it, everything that it contains. To just rebuild it would just be constructing a replica that looks like the original, but has none of its history. The roof would be new, the spire would be new, the only thing that would be original would be the bare walls. 

Not really sure how reconstructing it "misses the point". Over the centuries various parts of the cathedral have been replaced and restored. The steeple for example dated from the 19thcentury and was a replica of the original that had been lost to decay.

[Habitat]

So what is the consensus ? The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away ? All jokes aside, this must be very upsetting to Parisians. I guess the old dear dodged the bombings that flattened other European cathedrals, but it ran out of luck.

[Raptor Witness]

47 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

M. Macron is talking about rebuilding it by public subscription and what have you, but that rather misses the point doesn't it. It's the history embodied in it, everything that it contains. To just rebuild it would just be constructing a replica that looks like the original, but has none of its history. The roof would be new, the spire would be new, the only thing that would be original would be the bare walls. 

I Agree ...... May she Rest In Peace.

I would vote to use the money to build something new, not something new to replace something old, preferably fireproof.

[RoofGardener]

OoooKAY... according to Radio 4 thismorning, one of the stained glass windows has been saved ? (something about a Rose ? ). 

Two French billionairs have stepped up, pledging 300 Million Euro's between them to help rebuild. 

[Unusual Tournament]

1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

OoooKAY... according to Radio 4 thismorning, one of the stained glass windows has been saved ? (something about a Rose ? ). 

Two French billionairs have stepped up, pledging 300 Million Euro's between them to help rebuild. 

i heard that the crown of thorns was also saved by an entire fire brigade team. 

[Unusual Tournament]

10 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

How do you think?  Don't you think that a possible saboteur can be a licensed workman?  As I said, I don't think that is what happened but it helps to explore the possibilities.  I believe it was a stupid accident started by a licensed dolt not watching what he was doing.

its possible that it was deliberate. but the internal frame is 12th century oak. 100 tons of it and over time completely lost all moisture and thus perfect tinder. i also noticed scaffolding so it might have just been something as simple as an electrical spark and the rest was or is history. 

Damn shame. one of the most spiritual places i ever visited. 

[stevewinn]

Its still standing, when i got up this morning i was expecting to see the news it had collapsed.

Time for the rebuilding to start. check back in, in 200 years to see how it went.

[Timothy]

So, in this situation; does one tick it off the bucket list, or does one erase it from said list?

Being the tinder bundle it was; do you think they foresaw this kind of disaster and 3D mapped the whole place at high resolution?

That will be a good VR experience, without all of the other tourists too. They could make it so that you can travel through time and explore it in different significant time frames, from the untouched natural site to the building of it etc. ... and finally as a large smoldering pile of wood.

It’s a shame, but also it’s amazing how much has been allowed to have been lost in one single foreseeable event. Surely it could have been done better. 

['Walt' E. Kurtz]

1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

OoooKAY... according to Radio 4 thismorning, one of the stained glass windows has been saved ? (something about a Rose ? ). 

Two French billionairs have stepped up, pledging 300 Million Euro's between them to help rebuild. 

They can help me with transfering the 300 million to my account. ;-)

[Kismit]

3 hours ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

M. Macron is talking about rebuilding it by public subscription and what have you, but that rather misses the point doesn't it. It's the history embodied in it, everything that it contains. To just rebuild it would just be constructing a replica that looks like the original, but has none of its history. The roof would be new, the spire would be new, the only thing that would be original would be the bare walls. 

If he used the term replicate instead of rebuild would that work?

[+susieice]

Today the Guardian said the 3 rose windows are intact. As soon as the stone has cooled, they will go into the cathedral to inspect the damage. Most of the artifacts have been saved and the paintings are being taken to the Louvre for restoration and storage.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2019/apr/16/notre-dame-cathedral-fire-paris-france-macron-live-updates

There are no bare walls in Notre Dame and it seems the wood, such as the organ, has survived.

From the link:

Culture minister Franck Riester added that the religious relics saved from the cathedral, including the Crown of Thorns and Saint Louis’s tune, were being held in security at the Hotel du Ville and the rest of the works of art inside - which had suffered smoke damage - were being taken to the Louvre where they would be dried out, restored and stored.

He added the three beautiful stained-glass “rose” windows “do not appear to be damaged” but would be examined more closely when the cathedral had been made safe.

Architects have identified “three main holes” in the structure, that of the spire, the transept and the vault of the north transept.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by susieice

[+susieice]

The NY Times says the cathedral is structurally sound and the investigation will begin. The pictures show the nave has survived. Most likely water or smoke damage, but it can be restored.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/world/europe/notre-dame-fire-investigation.html

[TigerBright19]

The building was so old it was falling apart.

 

News story from March 2018.  They actually joke about the building falling down.

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Aaron2016

[danydandan]

I heard there was a building on fire, and there’s Notre Dame thing they couldn’ve done to stop it.

 

[freetoroam]

7 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

Not really sure how reconstructing it "misses the point". Over the centuries various parts of the cathedral have been replaced and restored. The steeple for example dated from the 19thcentury and was a replica of the original that had been lost to decay.

It has been damaged before, 

Quote

In the 1790s, Notre-Dame suffered desecration during the French Revolution; much of its religious imagery was damaged or destroyed.

Its been restored, touched up, fixed here and there over the centuries, but this time it is a different kettle of fish.

I believe now millions have been pledged by the millionaires and others, they will build another catherdral. I can not see the  money being handed back.

Quote

The archdiocese is responsible for paying the employees, for security, heating and cleaning, and for ensuring that the cathedral is open free to visitors. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre-Dame_de_Paris

But this is where the questions will start at

Quote

The French Ministry of Culture owns Notre Dame and is responsible for its maintenance.

https://www.*** blocked ***/news/world/1114869/Notre-dame-cathedral-fire-owner-history-who-owns-notre-dame/amp

They will be able to build onto what is left, but they will never be able to replace the history which stood up until yesterday.

I can see the new building will have strict fire safety regulations, posible wood will not be used. It will never be the catherdral it was with the history attached to it, but in a few hundred years time, would that really matter? I do not think it will to the future generation who like us, were not around centuries before.

Money will build a new one, time will build a new history.

 

[Vorg]

There are enough funds coming in to restore it to its previous splendor, but a new building would not be the same, no doubt.

Edited April 16, 2019 by South Alabam

[+susieice]

4 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

There are enough funds coming in to restore it to its previous splendor.

It will take many years but yes. The first thing they need to do is cover the structure to prevent any more damage because the roof is gone. Looking at the pictures I am pleasantly surprised at how well the vaulted ceiling held up. As I understand, it was mostly stone. The French will get this done.

Edited April 16, 2019 by susieice

[+susieice]

Here's some more pictures from inside the cathedral. Only two are not in previous links I posted.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/16/europe/inside-notre-dame-cathedral-photos-intl/index.html?fbclid=IwAR3DKl7x9YnNsIE4Ik06lidFxjgwzkyuLTlre0UOK7L0xRnQ3sF3n41Mdus

[RavenHawk]

6 minutes ago, susieice said:

Here's some more pictures from inside the cathedral. Only two are not in previous links I posted.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/16/europe/inside-notre-dame-cathedral-photos-intl/index.html?fbclid=IwAR3DKl7x9YnNsIE4Ik06lidFxjgwzkyuLTlre0UOK7L0xRnQ3sF3n41Mdus

That was what I was was noticing earlier that the candles were not melted and were still lit.  If that isn't Divine intervention.

[+susieice]

1 minute ago, RavenHawk said:

That was what I was was noticing earlier that the candles were not melted and were still lit.  If that isn't Divine intervention.

I saw that too. Some candles that had been lit that day in the nave were still burning. I also see a lot of wood that didn't burn. There is damage to the vaulted ceiling and it has three holes in it but it didn't collapse. From what I've read, what you see smoldering in the nave is part of the spire that went through the ceiling. I'm thinking the statues that can be removed have been for safe keeping. Especially the ones at the altar along with the cross. If that ceiling would have just come down, all that would have been crushed.

[RavenHawk]

If the organ is intact, it should be playing this weekend.  We know the bells survived, if the towers are sound, they too should be ringing now and on through Sunday.  I heard they were expecting a hundred thousand to attend mass.  What are the chances that a million will gather around on Easter?

[+susieice]

15 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

If the organ is intact, it should be playing this weekend.  We know the bells survived, if the towers are sound, they too should be ringing now and on through Sunday.  I heard they were expecting a hundred thousand to attend mass.  What are the chances that a million will gather around on Easter?

I think you're right. Many will gather around the cathedral on Easter Sunday. 

Thinking about the candles again. There were a lot in candleholders on the walls and floor by the altar. Those tapers are straight and unmelted. You can see them clearly in the pictures. It couldn't have gotten very hot in the nave.

[RavenHawk]

25 minutes ago, susieice said:

I think you're right. Many will gather around the cathedral on Easter Sunday.

Faith brings people together and I think we’ll see a great expression of love. (ala Christmas in Whoville  )

 

Thinking about the candles again. There were a lot in candleholders on the walls and floor by the altar. Those tapers are straight and unmelted. You can see them clearly in the pictures. It couldn't have gotten very hot in the nave.

That’s why it looked worse than it was.  All that heat and energy was focused in the roof.  I’m sure that if it was allowed to burn, it would have been a different story.  The unsung heroes had a special commission from the Lord in putting out this fire.

[danydandan]

Guys it's only a poxy building.