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onlookerofmayhem

Myths about Quantum Physics

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onlookerofmayhem

A good read on myths regarding quantum physics.

https://phys-org.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/phys.org/news/2019-04-common-myths-quantum-physics.amp?amp_js_v=0.1&amp_lite#webview=1&cap=swipe

I am not a physicist or a scientist in general, but I try to stay up on new developments. While not a new development, I'm glad some people are trying to clear up some of the misconceptions.

This article interested me because lately a few posters have invoked QM to offer explanations about paranormal activity and other dimensions. 

From the article :

"7. "Quantum physics might explain certain alternative therapies and other mysteries"

Many people who believe in paranormal phenomena and in certain "therapies" claim to be inspired by quantum physics. Indian-American Deepak Chopra is one of the most famous proponents of this approach. He has developed a kind of quantum mysticism in which a pseudo-New Age spirituality finds its credentials in scientific jargon such as "human quantum-body essence", "localised field of energy and information with cybernetic feedback loops", and "harmonisation of the quantum mechanical body". He then purports to establish quantum relationships between mind, consciousness, matter and the universe. "Quantum therapies" also offer care protocols based on the body seen as "a vibration and energy field", host to "vibrating states" and "bioresonances"."

It's this kind of information I feel is detrimental to the layman because it confuses them and lets the mind run wild.

What do you think about QM and the misinformation spreading around the world?

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papageorge1
Posted (edited)

I like Deepak Chopra and consider him ahead of his time with the mainstream. I suspect Chopra is at the leading edge of new post-materialist thinking. 

He is trying to bring eastern (Vedic) thought to western science. I think most of his critics don't even understand him.

Reasons why I feel that way:

1) My study of the paranormal and spirituality has led me to believe there are dramatic things beyond the reach of today's science.

2) Eastern (Vedic) and western esoteric schools have given me a working framework of many things many things mainstream scientists would prefer to deny even exist.

3) Many other sources I respect have positive things to say about Deepak Chopra.

4) Deepak Chopra's work is harmonized by post-materialist physicists like Amit Goswami.

5) etc.

Edited by papageorge1
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onlookerofmayhem
5 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I think most of his critics don't even understand him.

That's because he doesn't understand what he's saying. He may believe what he is saying, but it's mostly word salad garbage.

Throwing a bunch of words together doesn't make them mean anything.

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papageorge1
5 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

That's because he doesn't understand what he's saying. He may believe what he is saying, but it's mostly word salad garbage.

Throwing a bunch of words together doesn't make them mean anything.

I added the following to my original post since I noticed your comment:

He is trying to bring eastern (Vedic) thought to western science. I think most of his critics don't even understand him.

Reasons why I feel that way:

1) My study of the paranormal and spirituality has led me to believe there are dramatic things beyond the reach of today's science.

2) Eastern (Vedic) and western esoteric schools have given me a working framework of many things many things mainstream scientists would prefer to deny even exist.

3) Many other sources I respect have positive things to say about Deepak Chopra.

4) Deepak Chopra's work is harmonized by post-materialist physicists like Amit Goswami.

5) etc.

 

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XenoFish
25 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

That's because he doesn't understand what he's saying. He may believe what he is saying, but it's mostly word salad garbage.

Throwing a bunch of words together doesn't make them mean anything.

Never go full Chopra. All he wants is people's money. 

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Piney
47 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

He is trying to bring eastern (Vedic) thought to western science. I think most of his critics don't even understand him.

A lot of people understand this guy's thoughts on physics and Nihonjin thought is as far away from the Western one you can get. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michio_Kaku

 

1 hour ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

What do you think about QM and the misinformation spreading around the world?

It doesn't have a thing to do with Far Eastern philosophy or metaphysics. 

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XenoFish
Posted (edited)

It seems that quantum physics has become a favorite way to validate magical thinking for some people. I'm surprised there isn't a "Quantum Law of Attraction".:lol:

Edited by XenoFish
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papageorge1
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Piney said:

A lot of people understand this guy's thoughts on physics and Nihonjin thought is as far away from the Western one you can get. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michio_Kaku

Nihonjinron (日本人論, "theories/discussions about the Japanese"), is a genre of texts that focus on issues of Japanese national and cultural identity.

Michio Kaku ???

You managed to completely lose me again,  Piney.

"Vedic' is Indian. Typically considered 'eastern'.

Edited by papageorge1

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Piney
3 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

"Vedic' is Indian. Typically considered 'eastern'.

First off. Your not a Hindu. You have to be born one, they don't accept converts,

Second, do you speak and Read Vedic? Because real Vedic thought and there are many, many different philosophies have nothing to do with QP.  

6 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

You managed to completely lose me again,  Piney.

That's not hard

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papageorge1
7 minutes ago, Piney said:

First off. Your not a Hindu. You have to be born one, they don't accept converts,

Second, do you speak and Read Vedic? Because real Vedic thought and there are many, many different philosophies have nothing to do with QP.  

How does this tie in to the topic. I will learn from any source I find wise.

I find India has led the way on the furthering of mankind’s spiritual knowledge.

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Piney
1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

I find India has led the way on the furthering of mankind’s spiritual knowledge.

Answer my question. Do you read Vedic? 

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papageorge1
1 minute ago, Piney said:

Answer my question. Do you read Vedic? 

Vedic isn’t a language, Sanskrit is though. I don’t read Sanskrit, most Hindu’s don’t. It’s a dead language like Latin.

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Piney
1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

Vedic isn’t a language, Sanskrit is though. I don’t read Sanskrit, most Hindu’s don’t. It’s a dead language like Latin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_Sanskrit

Vedas isn't a language. Vedic is a form of Sanskrit and your not a Hindu. 

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papageorge1
Just now, Piney said:

Vedas isn't a language. Vedic is a form of Sanskrit and your not a Hindu. 

OK, I’ll do my own labeling. I am a follower of Advaita Vedanta philosophy.

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Piney
1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

OK, I’ll do my own labeling. I am a follower of Advaita Vedanta philosophy.

That's better. Now I can read up on your philosophy. :yes:

 

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MWoo7
Posted (edited)

Thanks for the post, yes maybe unfortunate regarding: " . . . the misinformation spreading . . . "

Same as creationists adding collections of scientific words they can find and add to whatever article.  Soon they'll have tons of bullets and numbers on every sentence for weight/cred and the word hypothesis on everything.

  •   pseudo-science

 OH .... I didn't know this... THANKS!!!!  ,,,, this is where my African brothers are getting this .....

""""""    Indian-American Deepak Chopra is one of the most famous proponents of . . . .   ""

In that last few years its come on strong and common, and now, I know why.  



Not once did anyone say rapper icons were saying that, now I get it.

Everyone's First Nations Blood / Native Indian for some reason or another.

Learn something new everyday.

 

 

 

Edited by MWoo7

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onlookerofmayhem
1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

1) My study of the paranormal and spirituality has led me to believe there are dramatic things beyond the reach of today's science.

2) Eastern (Vedic) and western esoteric schools have given me a working framework of many things many things mainstream scientists would prefer to deny even exist.

3) Many other sources I respect have positive things to say about Deepak Chopra.

4) Deepak Chopra's work is harmonized by post-materialist physicists like Amit Goswami.

5) etc.

1. How do you come to the conclusion that such things are "beyond science"?

How exactly do you "study" the paranormal?

2. Why do you claim science, in general, would "prefer" to deny anything? Could it be that, aside from anecdotes, there are no credible, empirical or tangible aspects to study in the first place?

3. Who, for example? And what do you mean by "many"? 5? 100? Thousands? 

4. I'm not familiar with Mr. Goswami, but from a quick search it seems most of his ideas are philosophical and not science based. He also claims people can walk on water, fly and manipulate their environment simply by thinking the right way. All things that have never been shown to work in any way.

5. Uhhhh. Ok. 

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papageorge1
Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

1. How do you come to the conclusion that such things are "beyond science"?

 

What I am just saying is not explainable by modern science (and would require dramatic additions).

38 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

 

How exactly do you "study" the paranormal?

 

By reading, analyzing, listening to others, considering all things rationally. 

38 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

 

2. Why do you claim science, in general, would "prefer" to deny anything? Could it be that, aside from anecdotes, there are no credible, empirical or tangible aspects to study in the first place?

 

There I am referring to an arrogant type of 'scientism' that wants science to boldly rule the roost of knowledge. They deny and resent evidence (so-called spiritual and paranormal) showing the dramatic incompleteness of science.

38 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

 

3. Who, for example? And what do you mean by "many"? 5? 100? Thousands? 

There are uncounted many in eastern and western esoteric schools, post-materialist philosophy, so-called New Age philosophy that are all basically on the same page on which Chopra sits. Chopra is not inventing the wheel but more trying to tie it in with science.

 

38 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

 

4. I'm not familiar with Mr. Goswami, but from a quick search it seems most of his ideas are philosophical and not science based. He also claims people can walk on water, fly and manipulate their environment simply by thinking the right way. All things that have never been shown to work in any way.

 

In the stuff I am interested in science and philosophy start to merge.

As for the last part it sounds like you chose a negative bio in your quickie search (perhaps Guerilla Skeptics on Wikipedia) that has an agenda to make believers of things beyond materialism sound foolish by not presenting exactly what they meant in full context.

 

 

Edited by papageorge1

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Golden Duck
1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

...

There I am referring to an arrogant type of 'scientism' that wants science to boldly rule the roost of knowledge. They deny and resent evidence (so-called spiritual and paranormal) showing the dramatic incompleteness of science.

...

I don't know of GP that resents Ayurvedic Medicine. Have you heard of one?

My second crop of Habenaro Chillies turned out like mini capsicum. I didn't know why until the floods hit Brisbane in 2011. That's the problem with natural remedies.

 

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papageorge1
15 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

I don't know of GP that resents Ayurvedic Medicine. Have you heard of one?

My second crop of Habenaro Chillies turned out like mini capsicum. I didn't know why until the floods hit Brisbane in 2011. That's the problem with natural remedies.

 

I have to wonder if that reply was not meant for where you put it??

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Golden Duck

Isn't Ayurvedic Medicine part of the framework you're talking about? And the part that would compete with Western Science?

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onlookerofmayhem
1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

What I am just saying is not explainable by modern science (and would require dramatic additions).

Ok. So it's not a matter of such things being beyond science, but a branch of science not yet invented? Science is about making sense of the observations and experiences we encounter.

Do you agree that established science is a precursor to the science of the future? 

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

There I am referring to an arrogant type of 'scientism' that wants science to boldly rule the roost of knowledge. They deny and resent evidence (so-called spiritual and paranormal) showing the dramatic incompleteness of science.

Science doesn't claim to be the say all/know all, definitive answer to anything. 

The scientific method is a pretty well established way to explain things.

No scientist, that I'm aware of, would ever claim that there will never be many new discoveries in every single scientific discipline.

As far as I'm aware there is no evidence to dismiss and deny. At least in the fact nothing that has been proposed that can be studied legitimately.

If there was such evidence, it would have to be accepted, in some way. 

Where are all the paranormal scientists that can give anyone a reason to take them seriously and examine their evidence? 

Science, in general, doesn't resent anything that is backed up by tangible.

Of course there will always be bad scientists. They are fallible just like every other human being to ever live.

But no paranormal event has been incontrovertible evidence that simply cannot be explained in other ways.

Science needs a model of some sort. That is one of the reasons I started this thread. 

To discuss why paranormal proponents insist on claiming that quantum mechanics somehow justifies their positions.

Are there things we don't know? Yes, of course. But it seems that not understanding QM gives some people the opportunity to claim it explains certain things. Yet they have no way to create a model linking the two.

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

There are uncounted many in eastern and western esoteric schools, post-materialist philosophy, so-called New Age philosophy that are all basically on the same page on which Chopra sits. Chopra is not inventing the wheel but more trying to tie it in with science.

What have any of these uncounted individuals accomplished that shows any positive results?

Have they cured any diseases or found a way to prevent them?

Have they bettered the all-around well being of their communities in any ways? I.E. Clean water, housing and food.

What exactly is the benefit they provide?

What, if any, are the examples of Chopra or any of his ilk have added any to science?

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

As for the last part it sounds like you chose a negative bio in your quickie search (perhaps Guerilla Skeptics on Wikipedia) that has an agenda to make believers of things beyond materialism sound foolish by not presenting exactly what they meant in full context.

Do you have a recommened link to an overview of his work you would consider credible?

In what context would one not sound foolish by claiming people can manipulate their physical surroundings by thought alone? Especially without giving verified demonstrations of such claims.

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Tatetopa
4 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Never go full Chopra. All he wants is people's money. 

Your avatar seems very unstable of late.  I hope it does not mirror  some sort of quantum personality energy state transition.  Hopefully it is a localized  field of energy in a feedback loop that will nullify its negative aspects with a burst of cosmic light.   We wish you a successful transition to your excited state.

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papageorge1
15 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Isn't Ayurvedic Medicine part of the framework you're talking about? And the part that would compete with Western Science?

The Vedas is vast with many branches and twigs. Ayurvedic Medicine is not something that ever really interested me or I can discuss. I am interested in Advaita Vedanta philosophy and metaphysics.

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papageorge1
17 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

Ok. So it's not a matter of such things being beyond science, but a branch of science not yet invented? Science is about making sense of the observations and experiences we encounter.

Do you agree that established science is a precursor to the science of the future? 

Yes.

19 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

 

Science doesn't claim to be the say all/know all, definitive answer to anything. 

The scientific method is a pretty well established way to explain things.

No scientist, that I'm aware of, would ever claim that there will never be many new discoveries in every single scientific discipline.

As far as I'm aware there is no evidence to dismiss and deny. At least in the fact nothing that has been proposed that can be studied legitimately.

If there was such evidence, it would have to be accepted, in some way. 

Where are all the paranormal scientists that can give anyone a reason to take them seriously and examine their evidence? 

Science, in general, doesn't resent anything that is backed up by tangible.

Of course there will always be bad scientists. They are fallible just like every other human being to ever live.

But no paranormal event has been incontrovertible evidence that simply cannot be explained in other ways.

Science needs a model of some sort. That is one of the reasons I started this thread. 

To discuss why paranormal proponents insist on claiming that quantum mechanics somehow justifies their positions.

Are there things we don't know? Yes, of course. But it seems that not understanding QM gives some people the opportunity to claim it explains certain things. Yet they have no way to create a model linking the two.

I disagree with multiple accusations there but in general my interest is in more than science. Using physical senses and tools to explore that which is posited to be 'beyond the physical' may be an oxymoron. 

I am actually fine with science moving slowly but my personal interests in all this involves things that science can not directly study at this time. I am not a follower of 'scientism' (meaning someone just interested in what science can directly study}.

27 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

 

What have any of these uncounted individuals accomplished that shows any positive results?

Have they cured any diseases or found a way to prevent them?

Have they bettered the all-around well being of their communities in any ways? I.E. Clean water, housing and food.

What exactly is the benefit they provide?

What, if any, are the examples of Chopra or any of his ilk have added any to science?

 

AGAIN, my interests go beyond science and the physical. I am interested in philosophy and the purpose of it all. In that light these people have added actually the most important things to my happiness. Science is a great thing but there are also important things it can't address at t his time. Science and spirituality are important and of interest to me.

 

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