Russia probes II -- The Mueller Report

[ian hacktorp]

1 minute ago, Einsteinium said:

You are just simply wrong though. The report speaks for itself.

I've been told that many times here.  Still waiting for someone to back it up.

But you're right; the report DOES speak for itself.  Not exactly glowingly, I might add.

Maybe the Dems will succeed in getting Robert Mueller on the stand to speak for his report.  I can't imagine anything he'd less like to do.

But I'd watch it.

[RavenHawk]

Just now, Gromdor said:

That is incorrect.  It demonstrated collusion and obstruction, but admitted it did not find enough to charge and convict.

Again, it never did demonstrate anything of the kind.  It showed that there was not enough evidence which is the same as being innocent in our system (you are innocent until proven guilty).  Of course there is no evidence that he didn't do it.  Innuendo is not guilt.  

[+Hammerclaw]

Just now, Einsteinium said:

I actually agree with this post of yours. Though I don't agree that I am a democrat, I am not. I vote for both republicans and democrats and I am not a registered member of either party.

Just because I disagree with a lot of your views on Trump does not make me a democrat.

Oh for God's sake, man, take a stand! Don't imagine you can just walk away, saying you were never part of that crowd. Your own words belie you.

[Gromdor]

3 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Again, it never did demonstrate anything of the kind.  It showed that there was not enough evidence which is the same as being innocent in our system (you are innocent until proven guilty).  Of course there is no evidence that he didn't do it.  Innuendo is not guilt.  

Ah, the Jussie Smollett argument. 

[Einsteinium]

2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Oh for God's sake, man, take a stand! Don't imagine you can just walk away, saying you were never part of that crowd. Your own words belie you.

Take a stand? For what? Both sides are crap and we need to bring back accountability, transparency, and integrity. That is what I stand for, and both sides are failing.

[RavenHawk]

2 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

Though I don't agree that I am a democrat, I am not. I vote for both republicans and democrats and I am not a registered member of either party.

Just because I disagree with a lot of your views on Trump does not make me a democrat.

You share (or at least defend) the ideology.  That is enough.  There is no such thing as fence sitting.

[RavenHawk]

2 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Ah, the Jussie Smollett argument. 

Only in your mind.

[Einsteinium]

1 minute ago, RavenHawk said:

You share (or at least defend) the ideology.  That is enough.  There is no such thing as fence sitting.

Believe it or not RavenHawk, not everyone is a democrat or a republican. Not everyone can be defined by left or right wing ideology. The world is not black and white.

[RavenHawk]

Just now, Einsteinium said:

Believe it or not RavenHawk, not everyone is a democrat or a republican. Not everyone can be defined by left or right wing ideology. The world is not black and white.

The world is many shades of gray, but every one on this planet either follows a Left or Right way of thinking.  It is only a matter of degree.

[+Hammerclaw]

3 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

Take a stand? For what? Both sides are crap and we need to bring back accountability, transparency, and integrity. That is what I stand for, and both sides are failing.

You can't ride the fence when you've been on one side of it for so long. Integrity starts with the individual voter and works it's way up. Whether we like it or not, we have to take a stand on one or other side of the divide. In American politics, there's no viable third option.

[RavenHawk]

5 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

You can't ride the fence when you've been on one side of it for so long. Integrity starts with the individual voter and works it's way up. Whether we like it or not, we have to take a stand on one or other side of the divide. In American politics, there's no viable third option.

There was a time in this country that it didn’t matter what side you were on, what mattered was what was important in achieving the best interest of this nation.  You can tell I’ve been reading another book about the Constitution or our Founding Fathers   Today, that is not so.  The Progressives could care less about this nation along with half of the Republicans.  But it’ll be up to what’s left, the real Conservatives that will keep this nation on track.  As I said earlier, the up coming carnage will help make things right.

[Einsteinium]

13 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

You can't ride the fence when you've been on one side of it for so long. Integrity starts with the individual voter and works it's way up. Whether we like it or not, we have to take a stand on one or other side of the divide. In American politics, there's no viable third option.

I can do whatever I want, you have no power over me.

I think Trump is a disgrace and a blight on our republic. I agree with the democrats on that. I don't agree with the Democratic green new deal proposal, nor do I agree with their scorched earth approach to fighting back against Trump.

 

I am tired of the right ignoring the facts and buying into the narrative Trump is peddling, even though it is clearly false. I don't trust your side to do the right thing, because your side ignores reality and nothing good comes from that mentality.

[ian hacktorp]

39 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

You are just simply wrong though.

Right.  A lot of people are simply wrong, aren't they?

Quote

"We now know, hidden on page 11, they used the Steele Dossier, the Clinton paid-for dirt, as part of the memo that directed the Special Counsel what to do."

 

[+Hammerclaw]

12 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

I can do whatever I want, you have no power over me.

I think Trump is a disgrace and a blight on our republic. I agree with the democrats on that. I don't agree with the Democratic green new deal proposal, nor do I agree with their scorched earth approach to fighting back against Trump.

 

I am tired of the right ignoring the facts and buying into the narrative Trump is peddling, even though it is clearly false. I don't trust your side to do the right thing, because your side ignores reality and nothing good comes from that mentality.

Which is exactly what we think of your side. You've engineered  one Party rule in California and want it for the rest of the country. You wish to destroy or undermine the Electoral college and institute majoritarianism where the country is ruled by the elite from their ivory towers and gated communities in Sanctuary cities. You want the country flooded with illegal aliens to dilute the electorate in your favor. Oh, my friend, there's enough distrust to go around and more!

Edited April 19, 2019 by Hammerclaw

[Gromdor]

3 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

Right.  A lot of people are simply wrong, aren't they?

 

Yeah, I'm reading page 11 right now and not seeing anything about the dossier or FISA warrants.

[Gromdor]

45 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

That's exactly what we think of you guys. You were willing to put those two back in the White House. That's what enabled a man like Trump to be elected. Yours is a sad indictment of the current generation of Democrats; not knowing your own history and falling victim to it's legacy.

Hillary was a Republican before she was a Democrat and Trump was a Democrat before he was a Republican.......  But hey,  knowing history and all that....

[ian hacktorp]

9 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Yeah, I'm reading page 11 right now and not seeing anything about the dossier or FISA warrants.

Mueller was directed to investigate allegations against Carter Page and others...allegations that existed only in the Steele Dossier.

To be accurately informed, it's not quite enough for one to simply be "reading" the report.  One must also comprehend what it is they are reading.

[Einsteinium]

3 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

Mueller was directed to investigate allegations against Carter Page and others...allegations that existed only in the Steele Dossier.

To be accurately informed, it's not quite enough for one to simply be "reading" the report.  One must also comprehend what it is they are reading.

You are just making assumptions and baseless accusations here. I know you WANT this to be true, but that does not make it true.

Furthermore the RNC was the first organization that funded the Steele dossier, the DNC took it over after it was clear Trump was going to win the nomination and the Republicans decided they better fall in line and stopped digging for dirt on Trump. Your obsession with the dossier is unfounded and stinks of desperation to find something, anything, to discredit the investigation.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Einsteinium

[Einsteinium]

4 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

Mueller was directed to investigate allegations against Carter Page and others...allegations that existed only in the Steele Dossier.

To be accurately informed, it's not quite enough for one to simply be "reading" the report.  One must also comprehend what it is they are reading.

Carter Page was being investigated long before all of this for his possible connections to Russian intelligence. You claiming that allegations only existed in the Steel Dossier is ignorant and you are making assumptions here. The report does not state anywhere (that I can find at least) that the dossier had anything to do with the investigation into Page. Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with following up on leads from the Dossier, that is why we investigate. If you need proof of a crime before you even investigate a crime nobody would be investigated. The investigation is to check on allegations of criminal conduct and see if they are true. Even if Mueller followed up on dossier accusations there is nothing wrong with doing so, that is called following leads. If there is nothing to the accusation then nothing will come of it, but it would be irresponsible for an investigator to ignore possible leads.

[Einsteinium]

25 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Yeah, I'm reading page 11 right now and not seeing anything about the dossier or FISA warrants.

These guys seem to just be making stuff up about the report and obviously have not read it themselves.

[ian hacktorp]

2 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

Your obsession with the dossier is unfounded and stinks of desperation to find something, anything, to discredit the investigation.

That dossier is, without question, the product of an international conspiracy.  If anyone is obsessed over it, it's the Brits and traitors here who desperately wish it never happened.

Claiming RNC involvement goes nowhere since we've always known criminals from both sides colluded on this.  Unfortunately John McCain won't be able to explain his very prominent role.

[ian hacktorp]

4 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

If you need proof of a crime before you even investigate a crime nobody would be investigated.

This statement loudly proclaims your complete ignorance of US laws governing investigations.

Most folks would write you off as unworthy of debate at this point.  But I won't.

Because I care.

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, hacktorp said:

Most of America is now aware that Comey was a key player in an illegal attempt to take down a presidential candidate and, later, a sitting president.  A 'coup', if you will.

Does "most" now mean 1/3 to 1/2?

[Einsteinium]

Just now, hacktorp said:

That dossier is, without question, the product of an international conspiracy.  If anyone is obsessed over it, it's the Brits and traitors here who desperately wish it never happened.

Claiming RNC involvement goes nowhere since we've always known criminals from both sides colluded on this.  Unfortunately John McCain won't be able to explain his very prominent role.

What are you talking about 'product of an international conspiracy'? How ridiculous. There is absolutely nothing illegal about paying 3rd parties to conduct political opposition research. That was all that this was. They found disturbing information when doing this research and what would you have them do? Bury it? What would you do if you found disturbing credible information when conducting research like this? The responsible thing to do was to bring it to the attention of the FBI and the media so they could follow up, dig deeper, and figure out if those disturbing allegations were true, or not. That is all that happened here, there is no evidence of any kind of criminal conspiracy whatsoever, hiding the allegations unearthed in the dossier would have been far more questionable than being transparent about it like Steele was.

[Einsteinium]

1 minute ago, hacktorp said:

This statement loudly proclaims your complete ignorance of US laws governing investigations.

Most folks would write you off as unworthy of debate at this point.  But I won't.

Because I care.

Then enlighten me please.

I have personally been the subject of an investigation. In high school someone taped a small explosive device to a neighbors window and blew in their window. They investigated and someone said they thought I knew who did it. So, without any proof at all, they interviewed me and threatened to give me a lie detector test if I did not tell the truth. Nothing ever became of it because I was not involved, but that IS how investigations work. Allegations are made, if they are credible enough the investigators follow up on them and use various methods to try and determine if those allegations are true or not. This is really pretty standard stuff.