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Tiggs

Russia probes II -- The Mueller Report

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and then
38 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

What I learned from the report.  The press secretary lies to you on a daily basis, and you don't give a damn.  There would have been obstruction of justice if aides carried out Trump's orders.  But, in the government, it's illegal to not follow an order if it's illegal.  Good thing his aides are smarter than him.  It's clear the investigation didn't start because of the dossier, no matter how many time And Then and F3SS say it did.  And it points out at least a dozen lies from Trump directly, from plans for a tower in Moscow to writing a statement about a Russian meeting in New York.  But, hey, who cares if he lies, right?  It's not against the law. 

The man was surrounded by criminals.  So, we have a President, who is so dumb not to realize what the people around him are doing, or we have a genius President who is a criminal who knows how to keep his nose clean.  Either way, you the right can own that trash.

Yeah, those grapes were sour, anyway :w00t:

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and then
5 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

what about obstruction of justice?

No conclusive evidence and he set the President up for investigations, round II.  Here's the thing, though.  While the Dems will investigate and leak and the 5th column will scream his guilt at every available opportunity, his numbers won't go low enough to make it safe for the never Trumpers in the Senate to vote to remove without themselves being removed in the next cycle.  

The real story will be if Barr shows he has a pair and thoroughly investigates the predicate for this investigation.  If he doesn't find sufficient cause for what happened with the FISA approval, we may well be off to the races in a way that will potentially lead to civil unrest, at least in major Blue cities.

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joc
7 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

We could have spent all that time watching sports for the last two years, and the same nothing would have happened.  If we had been woodworking or knitting we could have had a nice bookshelf or a sweater.

Wait!  You have been watching the coverage of all this by the Globalist Leftist News Media?  You should have been woodworking or knitting.  All they do is spout propaganda and lies....so...if you have been watching them...you would have been better off with your head in the sand at the beach.

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Merc14
8 hours ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Several instances of collusion are outlined in the report. 

Like Expand said, neither side was right. It's erroneous to claim such.

" hat just isn't reality ".  Communicating with Russians isn't collusion.  LoL.  You poor things, the whole dream came crashing down and you can't deal with it,thye promised you a perp walk and you are getting a Trump victory lap instead.  It is like election night all over again isn't?   Too funny. 

I must admit I am enjoying the pain and sorrow of guys like you over this and even more enjoyable is watching the mad scramble to avoid your admitting you were wrong.  Keep it up, I came back just to enjoy the silliness for a few days and you all are delivering in spade.  Guess what comes next.  Here is a hint, Horowitz.  ;)

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Imaginarynumber1
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

" hat just isn't reality ".  Communicating with Russians isn't collusion.  LoL.  You poor things, the whole dream came crashing down and you can't deal with it,thye promised you a perp walk and you are getting a Trump victory lap instead.  It is like election night all over again isn't?   Too funny. 

I must admit I am enjoying the pain and sorrow of guys like you over this and even more enjoyable is watching the mad scramble to avoid your admitting you were wrong.  Keep it up, I came back just to enjoy the silliness for a few days and you all are delivering in spade.  Guess what comes next.  Here is a hint, Horowitz.  ;)

I have no pain, nor no sorrow over it. I have more important things going on in my life. I gave up giving a **** about it or trump a long time ago. But you're saying that report says X when it really says Y. Just seems pointless.

Edited by Imaginarynumber1
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joc
2 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

I have no pain, nor no sorrow over it. I have more important things going on in my life. I gave up giving a **** about it or trump a long time ago. But you're saying that report says X when it really says Y. Just seems pointless.

What is really pointless is you or anyone else on this forum saying that they know what is in a 400 page document written in legalese that was only released early today.  What matters is what the Attorney General says.  This isn't going anywhere in the Congress...so it is a mute point.  Trump won! Pure and simple.

But this isn't the end of it...Attorney General Barr has already said in addition that there is no collusion or obstruction, that he believes there was a conspiracy that needs to be investigated.  So...good for you that you don't care one way or the other about Trump...it is going to be a Sticky Wicket for a lot of Democrats that will most probably be under an investigation out of the AG's office.   So...let the good times roll!

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Imaginarynumber1
Just now, joc said:

What is really pointless is you or anyone else on this forum saying that they know what is in a 400 page document written in legalese that was only released early today.  What matters is what the Attorney General says.  This isn't going anywhere in the Congress...so it is a mute point.  Trump won! Pure and simple.

But this isn't the end of it...Attorney General Barr has already said in addition that there is no collusion or obstruction, that he believes there was a conspiracy that needs to be investigated.  So...good for you that you don't care one way or the other about Trump...it is going to be a Sticky Wicket for a lot of Democrats that will most probably be under an investigation out of the AG's office.   So...let the good times roll!

So your saying what is in the report doesn't matter, only what trumps lackey says matters?

Jesus christ, dude, you can't be that dense.

And good. They should be investigating corrupt democrats. I don't see how that's a bad thing.

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Merc14

 

6 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Downloaded the report. Will poke away at it as time allows. 

I did notice that the conclusion did not say the DOJ, or AG, or even Congress is who should decide the things left open. It only says they are still open due to lack of clear ruling, and due to the unknown motivations of Trump. So, to me, that seems if Trump can be quiet, they can't  charge him.

Same reason Clinton got off on so many charges. The FBI can't prove intent without an actual confession by the principle.

Thanks Hillary! :lol: You got Trump off the hook.

No one can charge him, he is the president.  Congress can impeach (Pelosi has already said she won't) and the Senate can vote to remove from office (they, have said they won't on both sides of the aisle) and then the DoJ can charge with a crime.  The AG just said no crime was committed.  It's over for Trump but now the charges are coming for all the crooks who started this coup.

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Captain Risky
18 minutes ago, and then said:

No conclusive evidence and he set the President up for investigations, round II.  Here's the thing, though.  While the Dems will investigate and leak and the 5th column will scream his guilt at every available opportunity, his numbers won't go low enough to make it safe for the never Trumpers in the Senate to vote to remove without themselves being removed in the next cycle.  

The real story will be if Barr shows he has a pair and thoroughly investigates the predicate for this investigation.  If he doesn't find sufficient cause for what happened with the FISA approval, we may well be off to the races in a way that will potentially lead to civil unrest, at least in major Blue cities.

i just wanna say that i don't believe that Trump colluded with Russia, per se. in that i mean he had open and regular meetings with Russians to plan a strategy to stop Hillary for winning the presidency. BUT he did publicly call for Russia to find the missing Clinton emails. he authorised Flynn to find them Papadopoulos said he tried to create a meeting between Putin and Trump. so even if there was no collusion there definitely was intent. 

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Merc14
6 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

what about obstruction of justice?

LoL.  Guess you missed where thee isn't any.  You got fooled again!!!!  One would think you ppeople on the left would learn but you won't, thank God. 

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and then
1 minute ago, Captain Risky said:

i just wanna say that i don't believe that Trump colluded with Russia, per se. in that i mean he had open and regular meetings with Russians to plan a strategy to stop Hillary for winning the presidency. BUT he did publicly call for Russia to find the missing Clinton emails. he authorised Flynn to find them Papadopoulos said he tried to create a meeting between Putin and Trump. so even if there was no collusion there definitely was intent. 

So, is it your conclusion that Mueller should have charged him with something?  The fact that Rosenstein agreed with Barr on the absence of obstruction should put an end to this disgrace but the D's are fighting for their lives now.  They cannot give up, only escalate.  If Barr begins another in-depth investigation into their behavior, all hell is going to break loose.  

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Merc14
6 hours ago, bee said:

 

I'm not even going to gloat....... :innocent:

oh and is Mueller still doing an impression of the Invisible Man... ?

or has he just gone to ground..

 

That is because you are a bigger person than me Bee.  :nw: Not sure stating the obvious is gloating but too close to that border to argue the point.  I'll knoock it off in a few minuts and start discussing  thee important stuff like whee does this go from here and it is not going to be enjoyable for the left.

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Captain Risky
Just now, Merc14 said:

LoL.  Guess you missed where thee isn't any.  You got fooled again!!!!  One would think you ppeople on the left would learn but you won't, thank God. 

Only Trump Barr said there wasn't any. 

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Captain Risky
1 minute ago, and then said:

So, is it your conclusion that Mueller should have charged him with something?  The fact that Rosenstein agreed with Barr on the absence of obstruction should put an end to this disgrace but the D's are fighting for their lives now.  They cannot give up, only escalate.  If Barr begins another in-depth investigation into their behavior, all hell is going to break loose.  

Mueller's investigation didn't address collusion because there is no crime for collusion under the current American law code. there just isn't enough evidence to prove that Trump made a deal with with Russia. but his lackeys were trying very hard too. 

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Merc14
6 hours ago, Einsteinium said:

There was collusion, it just did not amount to criminal conspiracy.

Collusion is not a crime anyways, conspiracy is what it would have been and the threshold for proof beyond reasonable doubt was not met.

Aww, is reality too hard to face?  Too bad suck it up buttercup.

Quote

Pretty obvious obstruction did occur. I hope the dems act on that evidence and bring articles of impeachment.

Grow up and accept reality, its what grown ups do.  Can I ask a question buttercup, is this as bad as election night for you?

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joc
23 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

So your saying what is in the report doesn't matter, only what trumps lackey says matters?

Jesus christ, dude, you can't be that dense.

And good. They should be investigating corrupt democrats. I don't see how that's a bad thing.

In the first place, where did I ever say what was in the report didn't matter...what I said is YOU haven't read it...no one here has read it...so where is all of this stuff that it says or doesn't say come from?  It comes from the News Media....definitely slanted far left.  And the Rush Limbaughs and such on the right.  And from the Attorney General who is an honorable man.   I trust Rush And Barr over CNN and MSNBC any day of any week.

In the second place Barr is not Trumps lackey!  Where did that even come from...oh wait...MSNBC of course.  

In the third place...The Attorney General is the head of the Justice Department...not CNN, or the Congress.  Separation of Powers you know...

And lastly they should be investigating corruption where ever it is...hence the name for the Washington Cess Pool of corruption given it by Trump himself known as...the Swamp.

 

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Merc14
3 hours ago, Tiggs said:

From the obstruction statute:

Whoever corruptly, or by threats or force, or by any threatening letter or communication, endeavors to influence, intimidate, or impede any grand or petit juror, or officer in or of any court of the United States, or officer who may be serving at any examination or other proceeding before any United States magistrate judge or other committing magistrate, in the discharge of his duty, or injures any such grand or petit juror in his person or property on account of any verdict or indictment assented to by him, or on account of his being or having been such juror, or injures any such officer, magistrate judge, or other committing magistrate in his person or property on account of the performance of his official duties, or corruptly or by threats or force, or by any threatening letter or communication, influences, obstructs, or impedes, or endeavors to influence, obstruct, or impede, the due administration of justice, shall be punished as provided in subsection (b). If the offense under this section occurs in connection with a trial of a criminal case, and the act in violation of this section involves the threat of physical force or physical force, the maximum term of imprisonment which may be imposed for the offense shall be the higher of that otherwise provided by law or the maximum term that could have been imposed for any offense charged in such case.

Source: Cornell

As far as I'm aware -- covering up a criminal act is covered by "Whoever corruptly". Lots of Or's after that, so seems as if it's not an absolute requirement.

However -- I believe the position of the Attorney General is that securing a conviction in court is unlikely without that criminal intent, presumably based on prior DOJ conviction rates.

And as far as indicting the president goes -- the AG's word is final.

An impeachment for obstruction only requires a majority vote from the House, but the same basic consideration is in play.

Namely -- would the Senate convict without criminal intent? IMO -- they wouldn't.

Accept none of that happened.  You were wrong again, as usual.   Hey, the report left enough rubbish for people like you to chew on, scream about and post silly justification like this right up till 2020, just as predicted so you dig in Tiggs, don't give up.  ;)

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Will Due

 

Ya know, it's interesting. The comments here by the left have an air of resignation to them. And just like the deranged media, they fight the urge to capitulate and admit the truth, and instead, they keep on going as if nobody is noticing the futility. 

They know this whole Trump-Russia thing is a hoax. They won't admit it. They just turn up their hysteria. What they fail to recognize though, is what's in the big picture.

There's this overdressed and undersized petulant kid swinging his arms in the air trying to hit a giant who's got a big hand holding his head.

The kid seems not to notice though that the giant has another hand. Clinched in a fist, aimed, ready to deliver the comeuppance. 

 

 

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Imaginarynumber1
2 minutes ago, joc said:

In the first place, where did I ever say what was in the report didn't matter...what I said is YOU haven't read it...no one here has read it...so where is all of this stuff that it says or doesn't say come from?  It comes from the News Media....definitely slanted far left.  And the Rush Limbaughs and such on the right.  And from the Attorney General who is an honorable man.   I trust Rush And Barr over CNN and MSNBC any day of any week.

In the second place Barr is not Trumps lackey!  Where did that even come from...oh wait...MSNBC of course.  

In the third place...The Attorney General is the head of the Justice Department...not CNN, or the Congress.  Separation of Powers you know...

And lastly they should be investigating corruption where ever it is...hence the name for the Washington Cess Pool of corruption given it by Trump himself known as...the Swamp.

 

Quote

 What matters is what the Attorney General says.

As opposed to actual facts, right?

Barr is only AG cause he was blowing trump so hard

And trump didn't even come up the the "swamp". That was from a PR firm and he didn't even like it.

And I have read large parts of it. I've been at work for 4 hours and it's a slow night.

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Hammerclaw
1 hour ago, bison said:

Obstruction of justice by Mr. Trump does not require that anyone carry out his orders to do so. The attempt to prevent the rightful workings of the law is quite sufficient for this crime to have been committed. There is ample documentary evidence that Mr. Trump attempted to obstruct justice on numerous occasions.  

The failure to charge him was not based on Mr. Trump's supposed innocence, or the weakness of the case against him. It was Mr. Mueller's belief that a sitting President could not be prosecuted. This point is still being debated, and is by no means settled. It seems an especially disgraceful act in Mr. Trump's case, since his oath of office as President included a promise to uphold the law.  

He was tyro; transitioning from rich jerk to President jerk was tough. He should have waited, let the chips fall where they may, then granted sentence commutations like Obama did for Chelsea Manning.

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Merc14
Posted (edited)

I've had my fun and the usual suspects will keep on doing what they have been doing for the last two years but arguing with people who have descended into an irrational rage against reality is pointless, so I won't bother any longer, let them concentrate  on a fiction and the rational should get ready for the reality that is coming.

The reality is now that Mueller has disbanded his merry band of corrupt "prosecutors", the report delivered and the President exonerated the other investigations that have been underway will be reported and the real criminal activities will be outlined and some real indictments made. 

Edited by Merc14
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hacktorp

^^Farmer, you must've decided to wait on starting the civil war until after Obama, the Clintons, Brennan, Clapper, Comey, etc. all get what's coming to them.  It's going to be quite a show!

Might even bring this tired nation together...

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ExpandMyMind
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Merc14 said:

Accept none of that happened.  You were wrong again, as usual.   Hey, the report left enough rubbish for people like you to chew on, scream about and post silly justification like this right up till 2020, just as predicted so you dig in Tiggs, don't give up.  ;)

Tiggs already offered his mea culpa and apology before bowing out of the debate immediately after Barr released his initial statement. I doubt he's planning on digging in anywhere. He was specifically asked a question which was, I assume, the only reason that he posted.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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Farmer77
6 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

^^Farmer, you must've decided to wait on starting the civil war until after Obama, the Clintons, Brennan, Clapper, Comey, etc. all get what's coming to them.  It's going to be quite a show!

Might even bring this tired nation together...

Man once upon a time folks cared about America. Itll be nice when your types recede back into the shadows and those people show up again.

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