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The Bats ghost theory....


the13bats

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On 4/17/2019 at 6:07 PM, the13bats said:

its beyond my payrate at the moment hence why i posted this thread but i find it so much more plausible, logical, etc than a jump to conscience spirits, ghosts walk the same path for years trapped in the shadowland.

 

Have you ever tried meditation?  I can't imagine you have if you don't believe that there is more to the universe than we can see, feel, taste, hear or smell.  What would be the point?

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4 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Have you ever tried meditation?  I can't imagine you have if you don't believe that there is more to the universe than we can see, feel, taste, hear or smell.  What would be the point?

Whatever appears in the mind as a result is from the imagination and subconscious.

The only point is to do it or not. 

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3 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Have you ever tried meditation?  I can't imagine you have if you don't believe that there is more to the universe than we can see, feel, taste, hear or smell.  What would be the point?

xenofish summed it up perfectly, i will add you obviously do not know me, what you are doing is assuming a bit too much about what i havent been into, tried and done in my life,

meditation and anything exoerenced during it is within ones mind, 

you might enjoy reading john keels stuff.

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4 minutes ago, the13bats said:

xenofish summed it up perfectly, i will add you obviously do not know me, what you are doing is assuming a bit too much about what i havent been into, tried and done in my life,

meditation and anything exoerenced during it is within ones mind, 

you might enjoy reading john keels stuff.

Of course I don't know you.  The trick is how do you define "ones mind".  Is it just the nuerons firing in your brain causing chemical reactions or could there be more to it than that?

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Just now, Desertrat56 said:

Is it just the nuerons firing in your brain causing chemical reactions or could there be more to it than that?

That's exactly what it is. However the value and worth of such meditative efforts depend on the person. If you meditate for the purpose of relaxation, calming your mind, or "enlightenment". Then that's the individuals priority. Just because there is no woo involved doesn't make such things pointless and meaningless, it is meaningful to you (used indirectly) because it is meaningful to you. 

Mediation can be used to communicate with the subconscious. 

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1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

That's exactly what it is. However the value and worth of such meditative efforts depend on the person. If you meditate for the purpose of relaxation, calming your mind, or "enlightenment". Then that's the individuals priority. Just because there is no woo involved doesn't make such things pointless and meaningless, it is meaningful to you (used indirectly) because it is meaningful to you. 

Mediation can be used to communicate with the subconscious. 

I don't agree with you about the brain and the mind but you make a good point.

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Just now, Desertrat56 said:

I don't agree with you about the brain and the mind but you make a good point.

No one has to agree with anyone. I could explain what I think ghost are but the whole thing would probably fall on deaf ears and blind eyes. 

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xenofish, if you believe ghosts are the departed dead, okay, weve been there but if you have something new please share, only one ear is almost deaf, occupational.

 

no mumbo jumbo, ones "mind" is their brain, yeah, boring neurons firing, and limited to that.

and "dowsing" rods, your detailed rundiwn assumed i never heard of them or  touched one, wrong yet again,

there have been a lot of studies on them and peel away the hype and embelishments they have never been proven in any scientific way,

in the early 80s a very kindly elderly lady gave me a big hug and offered me tea when in first entered her new age shop, all i wanted was real Patchouli oil, amber and a couple others, she had to give me the full 2 dollar treatment,

i grew to like and respect her.

she tried to show me how a person can feel a crystal, i humored her, a study unrelated to her was conducted, people were asked to see if they could feel the engery released by a special crystal, nearly 100% felt some thing or another, the special crystal was polished glass,  people believe things that are real to them, it doesnt make it real across the board.

this is where i fit witching rods, if you believe in them thats your mind not mine.

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15 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

No one has to agree with anyone. I could explain what I think ghost are but the whole thing would probably fall on deaf ears and blind eyes. 

it doesnt make a person blind and deaf not to believe someone elses theories and claims.

when you start with a disparaging disclaimer like that some people will listen to you with a different mindset...they might make you feel about your ghost theories the way you make many true believers here feel about their theories...the door swings both ways, but after reading many posts from you i am hoping you will share your ghost theorie. 

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1 minute ago, the13bats said:

xenofish, if you believe ghosts are the departed dead, okay, weve been there but if you have something new please share, only one ear is almost deaf, occupational.

 

They are a mental construct. 

https://www.time-loops.net/Experiment_Philip.htm

The idea of a spirit or ghost can have a strong effects on the mind. Even the faintest of belief can "create" supposed paranormal associations. The reason I think this is so is because of how servitor creation works. In other words when I practiced chaos magick I created my own "ghost". So I figured that this principle works for everyone on some level. Even if the artificial entity is create because of belief and rumors, as in a place is "haunted". Typically if a location is "haunted" there is always some story about who, what, when and where. What ghostly think occurred and the end result is that people haunt themselves. 

I know how easy it is to induce a head-trip through belief.

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I was exposed to ghost stories about the 6th grade I believe..My library teacher's father wrote a book called "Ghost of the Gray Man"....I don't know if anyone has ever heard of it or not...Myself I have never had an encounter with one....I am kind of on the fence about this. I cannot say they don't exist and I cannot say they do...You can watch all these ghost reality tv shows you want but that does not prove ghost..

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Just now, the13bats said:

when you start with a disparaging disclaimer like that some people will listen to you with a different mindset...they might make you feel about your ghost theories the way you make many true believers here feel about their theories...the door swings both ways, but after reading many posts from you i am hoping you will share your ghost theorie. 

I have a lot of ideas about how things work. Typically those ideas/thoughts don't mess well around here. Even in regards to "psychic abilities", I do not regard the pop culture version as being real. However I am more than open to people having various sharper cognitive functions. Person A might naturally be adept at cold readings, Person B may have better intuition that someone else. Simple stuff, not superpowers. 

I think I mentioned this before in this or another thread. Just because you saw a ghost doesn't mean you saw a ghost, you saw something you thought was a ghost. 

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2 minutes ago, Alien Origins said:

I was exposed to ghost stories about the 6th grade I believe..My library teacher's father wrote a book called "Ghost of the Gray Man"....I don't know if anyone has ever heard of it or not...Myself I have never had an encounter with one....I am kind of on the fence about this. I cannot say they don't exist and I cannot say they do...You can watch all these ghost reality tv shows you want but that does not prove ghost..

I've seen them. I just don't believe they are some external manifestation. Still see them occasionally. 

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xeno, thanks, i was right on board with you until you said you conjured up a ghost,

Quote

s when I practiced chaos magick I created my own "ghost".

if you meant only to you in your mind then im still on board, if you feel it could be seen by others or was a conscience being then yeah, like a rat ill jump off your ship now,

i firmly believe that so much of this stuff ghosts, phychics etc only exist in the believers mind, why that insults true believers i cant say.

what you call "sharper cognitive functions" would be just that and not some channeling someones dead relative, it still would fall right in with these flash phychics trying to make a buck, however if i say "gee, i have my cognitive fuctions honed and can read a person," no one cares, but if i say your aunt Matilda is trying to contact you thru me, oh boy, im the center of attention. and $$$ flows.

in my way of thinking a lot is just fun and games hocus pocus until real pain is inflicted as in whats her name telling parents their missing child is the opposite of what they turn out to be, that is a definer of down right evil to me.  

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3 minutes ago, the13bats said:

xeno, thanks, i was right on board with you until you said you conjured up a ghost,

if you meant only to you in your mind then im still on board, if you feel it could be seen by others or was a conscience being then yeah, like a rat ill jump off your ship now,

Why do you think I call them mental constructs. That I made the remark about seeing a ghost doesn't mean what you saw was a ghost. Belief and Imagination can be powerful in changing our perception of reality. 

i firmly believe that so much of this stuff ghosts, phychics etc only exist in the believers mind, why that insults true believers i cant say.

It insults them because they want it to be more. Not just an imaginary entity. They want it to be real. 

what you call "sharper cognitive functions" would be just that and not some channeling someones dead relative, it still would fall right in with these flash phychics trying to make a buck, however if i say "gee, i have my cognitive fuctions honed and can read a person," no one cares, but if i say your aunt Matilda is trying to contact you thru me, oh boy, im the center of attention. and $$$ flows.

Some people are just good at reading others and have a better gut to listen too. 

in my way of thinking a lot is just fun and games hocus pocus until real pain is inflicted as in whats her name telling parents their missing child is the opposite of what they turn out to be, that is a definer of down right evil to me.  

The scammer can cause a lot of emotional harm to people, even guiding them into a self-fulfilling prophecy (like fortune tellers), this can be destructing. And it can be rarely beneficial. 

Reading ghost stories for fun, enjoying mindless ghost hunting shows, all for the entertainment value of the thing. Go for it. Same goes for psychic and such, just don't put any stock into what they're selling. 

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Consider this. A ghost story is an idea. If you share it, it will spread. The internet is a cesspool of memetic information. So if I told you a story about the haunted Vorhees house down on Elm St. That I saw a ghost there on Halloween night. Someone would believe it. If they did they might share the story. New detail may be added, etc. Then people through a collective belief "create" a ghost. It becomes a shared idea till it's forgotten. The ghost doesn't exist, but the belief in it does.

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6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Consider this. A ghost story is an idea. If you share it, it will spread. The internet is a cesspool of memetic information. So if I told you a story about the haunted Vorhees house down on Elm St. That I saw a ghost there on Halloween night. Someone would believe it. If they did they might share the story. New detail may be added, etc. Then people through a collective belief "create" a ghost. It becomes a shared idea till it's forgotten. The ghost doesn't exist, but the belief in it does.

right, i fully get it and agree, a lot of actual scientists, not cryptozoologists say basically the same about things like bigfoot, lake monsters etc,

look at all the furor created when sykes proved yeti was a type of bear, gee, monks had been saying that 100s of years but some people would much rather have the fantasy live on and bashed and trashed, is sykes perfect hell no, but did he prove yeti was a bear, yes, and that deeply buttchapped a lot of people, my favorite rebuttle was that sykes was wrong with the type bear he thought it was early on, but its still a bear. um no no no sykes is full of it hes wrong yeti is not a bear....its a different type of bear.

in the last couple weeks two different people here posted ironically similarish UFO stories, fairly epic events would have been seen by others documented etc, had i been them i would have researched it thru the years.

i was intrigued, interested, i asked did you do any hunting for collaborations, accounts etc,

i wasnt greeted with a simple no, or i did and found this or found zero, i was greeted with attacks and insults just for asking, sure i get it people are passinate about being believed but if a simple question sets off a tantrum how do they expect us to take the encounter serious?

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Just think about how the "demons" that are seen during sleep paralysis have become aliens abducting people. I'm sure as time goes by something new will pop up.

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I don't believe the brain has anything to do with ghost sightings.When they are experienced, it is by your spirit which is in the same realm as other entities.I also believe nothing like this can be captured on film,therefore all ghost pics are fake or misinterpreted.Some people can't connect between the two realms as their minds are too busy with other stuff and shut off from this.

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2 hours ago, openozy said:

I don't believe the brain has anything to do with ghost sightings.When they are experienced, it is by your spirit which is in the same realm as other entities.I also believe nothing like this can be captured on film,therefore all ghost pics are fake or misinterpreted.Some people can't connect between the two realms as their minds are too busy with other stuff and shut off from this.

i dont believe saying some people IE disbelievers have some shortcoming and just cant connect the realms, just another way to call someone close minded or say they think outside the box, so you cant be surprised when they rebut, you are delusinal.

 

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1 hour ago, the13bats said:

i dont believe saying some people IE disbelievers have some shortcoming and just cant connect the realms, just another way to call someone close minded or say they think outside the box, so you cant be surprised when they rebut, you are delusinal.

 

That's your opinion but not true imo.I'd say skeptics are delusional and naïve by only believing scientific explanations,just because they cant tap in to anything not on paper.The only thing I agree with them with is discrediting photo's of spirits and paranormal stuff,spirits,ghosts,demons cannot be filmed and it amazes me anyone would waste their time looking at the sh--.

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2 hours ago, openozy said:

That's your opinion but not true imo.I'd say skeptics are delusional and naïve by only believing scientific explanations,just because they cant tap in to anything not on paper.The only thing I agree with them with is discrediting photo's of spirits and paranormal stuff,spirits,ghosts,demons cannot be filmed and it amazes me anyone would waste their time looking at the sh--.

  hum?

your theory is something to the effect of our spirit doesnt exist here with us in this realm but its over there in some other realm having a kegger with other spirits and entities and to connect the person must have an empty mind and not shut off to this.

its fairly perfect, zero way to prove your theory and zero way for anyone to disprove it, this far from makes it a fact, it makes it your belief,  which i fully support even though some wiuld call that "delusional and naive".

back to my first reply to you i wasnt poking at your theory i was poking at a concept i see here over and over here, sometimes so vauge it can be missed but there is no reason for a person to toss jabs at a disbeliever, moreso toss jabs before being disbelived.

im trying to figure out why "belief" isnt enough for some,

 

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58 minutes ago, the13bats said:

m trying to figure out why "belief" isnt enough for some

I think some people just hate to accept some things are out of their hands,control freaks you might say,with a holier than though attitude to life.If you study most die hard skeptics they do fill the bill in this way.

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46 minutes ago, openozy said:

I think some people just hate to accept some things are out of their hands,control freaks you might say,with a holier than though attitude to life.If you study most die hard skeptics they do fill the bill in this way.

sure, that sums up too many true believers ive come across, it seems they are deeply very insercure, they need acceptance badly and when their beliefs arent hailed they do get rather butthurt quickly,

i disagree about die hard skeptics and even ones that are too snide for me, i srill find their belief is enough and they are comfortable with it, if you agree fine if not fine,

its the true believers trying to force their ideas on others and when dismissed go into tantrums and toss insults.

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24 minutes ago, the13bats said:

ts the true believers trying to firce their ideas on others and when dismissed go into tantrums and toss insults

I think that of skeptics with their scientific"theories".

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