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RoofGardener

Worldwide Walls

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RoofGardener
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Setton said:

And the key thing about all your examples? None of them had a border wall. They encouraged the intermingling of different cultures to create one new one. Rather than splitting an existing one into two arbitrary halves.....

Ummm.... oh no they didn't. They regarded them as invasions, and spilled blood to resist them. Walls are good to keep illegal migrants out... they are not QUITE so good at keeping invading armies out. 

Edited by RoofGardener
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OverSword

@RoofGardener Did you post this to open a calm path for a discussion about rebuilding Hadrain's wall to keep the riffraff out of England?

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Setton
1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

Ummm.... oh no they didn't. They regarded them as invasions, and spilled blood to resist them.

When they first arrived but not when both communities were well established. Which is what we're talking about on the US-Mexico border.

The modern cultures of England and Northern France are a living testament to that. 

Quote

Walls are good to keep illegal migrants out... they are not QUITE so good at keeping invading armies out. 

People keep saying that but they never have a single example to back it up. Without relying on such false equivalencies, that is. 

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RoofGardener
9 minutes ago, Setton said:

People keep saying that but they never have a single example to back it up. Without relying on such false equivalencies, that is. 

Umm.. I would have thought it was obvious ? What kind of wall is going to keep a main battle tank out ? 

Umm... or for that matter... a helicopter ? 

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Setton
46 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Umm.. I would have thought it was obvious ? What kind of wall is going to keep a main battle tank out ? 

Umm... or for that matter... a helicopter ? 

I was referring (as I suspect you know) to your claim that they keep out illegal migrants. That's why I put it in bold. 

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Dark_Grey
2 hours ago, Setton said:

People keep saying that but they never have a single example to back it up. Without relying on such false equivalencies, that is. 

Can you count how many thieves were deterred by your dog barking? Is there a way to quantify that? 

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kartikg

Walls are not enough, one needs to put surveillance equipment and post arm guards. 

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Robotic Jew

This is a ridiculous reach and shows that you're only interested in defending the hyperbolic and stupid arguments presented by pretty much only the people who are FOR the wall but are only trying to smear people who are against the current administration's approach to justifying the wall.

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RoofGardener
3 hours ago, Setton said:

I was referring (as I suspect you know) to your claim that they keep out illegal migrants. That's why I put it in bold. 

Sorry.. I was being mischievous. 

Yes, they keep immigrants out. OBVIOUSLY they do this. I mean... can YOU get through a 3m tall electrified fence ? 

Hmm... how long before that becomes an Olympic event ? 

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Sir Wearer of Hats
2 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

Can you count how many thieves were deterred by your dog barking? Is there a way to quantify that? 

All of them, except the ones that aren’t.

an equation something like this:

a = population of thieves in given area.

b = percentage of thieves afraid of dogs.

c = percentage of thieves not afraid of dogs.

C = a - b

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Gromdor
11 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Sorry.. I was being mischievous. 

Yes, they keep immigrants out. OBVIOUSLY they do this. I mean... can YOU get through a 3m tall electrified fence ? 

Hmm... how long before that becomes an Olympic event ? 

Yeah, it's pretty easy actually.  Here in Iowa we only use electric fences to keep livestock in place, they are the only things dumb enough to not figure out how to bypass it.  (Most of the time) https://www.thelocal.ch/20160517/lynx-hurdles-electric-fence-to-escape-animal-park

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Tatetopa
1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

All of them, except the ones that aren’t.

an equation something like this:

a = population of thieves in given area.

b = percentage of thieves afraid of dogs.

c = percentage of thieves not afraid of dogs.

C = a - b

I think you need one more variable in there Sir.    Your type of dog.  My 11 pound dog hits the high notes better than Ariana Grande.  He does not engender a lot of fear, more like the irritation engendered by a  hair trigger car alarm.

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Setton
4 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

Can you count how many thieves were deterred by your dog barking? Is there a way to quantify that? 

Not with my berk of a dog... 

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Setton
1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

Sorry.. I was being mischievous. 

Yes, they keep immigrants out. OBVIOUSLY they do this. I mean... can YOU get through a 3m tall electrified fence ? 

Hmm... how long before that becomes an Olympic event ? 

I suspected as much. You're getting predictable :P

No, I can't. But are the illegal migrants coming through where the wall will be put? If not, it's a little redundant, don't you think? 

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Sir Wearer of Hats
29 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

I think you need one more variable in there Sir.    Your type of dog.  My 11 pound dog hits the high notes better than Ariana Grande.  He does not engender a lot of fear, more like the irritation engendered by a  hair trigger car alarm.

Good point. 

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Dark_Grey
16 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

I think you need one more variable in there Sir.    Your type of dog.  My 11 pound dog hits the high notes better than Ariana Grande.  He does not engender a lot of fear, more like the irritation engendered by a  hair trigger car alarm.

Most Police would agree that even a small dog can be a better deterrent than some alarm systems. Small breeds like terriers feel it is their duty to "sound the alarm". You and I just hear constant barking lol

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RoofGardener
19 hours ago, Setton said:

I suspected as much. You're getting predictable :P

No, I can't. But are the illegal migrants coming through where the wall will be put? If not, it's a little redundant, don't you think? 

I think the point is that the illegal migrants won't come through where the wall is put, channeling them into other entry points. :) 

The longer the wall grows, the greater the channeling effect :) 

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RoofGardener
22 hours ago, Robotic Jew said:

This is a ridiculous reach and shows that you're only interested in defending the hyperbolic and stupid arguments presented by pretty much only the people who are FOR the wall but are only trying to smear people who are against the current administration's approach to justifying the wall.

Oh really ? 

All I'm doing is pointing out that many countries have border walls, and most of them find them to be very successful. What is the problem with that ? 

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Tatetopa
3 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

Small breeds like terriers feel it is their duty to "sound the alarm". You and I just hear constant barking lol

You are right and even if it is irritating sometimes, I appreciate it. My last old dog slept right through our only garage break in.   He is an sentry dog, not a combat dog. That part is certainly true.  My terrier mix is watchful and protective. I know when someone or something (mostly surly cats and brave rabbits) approach my house.   I just haven't been able to teach him that my neighbors parking their cars in their own driveways are not a threat.  If he growls or barks at night, I always get up to check.

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Robotic Jew
1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

Oh really ? 

All I'm doing is pointing out that many countries have border walls, and most of them find them to be very successful. What is the problem with that ? 

This is a dishonest statement based on the thread description.

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Dark_Grey
2 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

You are right and even if it is irritating sometimes, I appreciate it. My last old dog slept right through our only garage break in.   He is an sentry dog, not a combat dog. That part is certainly true.  My terrier mix is watchful and protective. I know when someone or something (mostly surly cats and brave rabbits) approach my house.   I just haven't been able to teach him that my neighbors parking their cars in their own driveways are not a threat.  If he growls or barks at night, I always get up to check.

My terrier gives me a confused look when I tell him to stop barking. It's pretty clear that he thinks he is doing his duty

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RavenHawk

It seems that people are under the impression that a "wall" only comprises a physical structure and nothing else??  Build it and walk away.  A wall is certainly the core element, but a wall by itself is useless.  When discussing a wall, it is assumed that other elements are included.  It can be anything from a land-based ACS/CIWS to a barking terrier.  It just depends on the requirements.  But a wall will add a defensive factor by at least 4.  I.e. if you have 100 men manning a wall, it will take at least 400 to overwhelm the position.  Our Southern Border won't need to stop a T14 or M1 or an Mi24 or UH60, but sensors, cameras, and drones would do just nicely.  It would require numerous pieces of equipment (in the hundreds of thousands) and the manpower to monitor them.  It would require control bunkers/OPs and rapid response teams 24x7 as well as patrols and the manpower to perform regular maintenance.  It would also include river patrol craft.  A proper wall is a complex, living organism.  A wall also requires administrative backup in laws and support from the will of the people.

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RavenHawk

I guess you can think of a wall as racist.  It protects the sovereignty and uniqueness of the culture and that makes a wall very moral.  We are a melting pot, not a salad bowl.  We are "One Out of Many", not many that stay many.  That ‘salad bowl’ plays into the divide and conquer identity politics of the Progressives.

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OverSword
On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 9:09 AM, Setton said:

People keep saying that but they never have a single example to back it up. Without relying on such false equivalencies, that is

Are you including the many, many examples in the OP?

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Setton
2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Are you including the many, many examples in the OP?

Can you provide a quote? Because they're not in the article I get from the OP link. 

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