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RoofGardener

Worldwide Walls

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RoofGardener
1 minute ago, Myles said:

The plant I work at has a wall to keep people out.   It works well.

RACIST !!! :P 

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RavenHawk
1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

Noooo... if it cost $10 billion to build 50 miles, then it would cost $100 billion to build 500 miles, and hence about $400 billion to build 2000 miles :)

It wouldn't effect the ecosystem: we'd line it with that stuff you use to line garden ponds, so no salt water would enter the environment. 

As for pumps, you'd just have to dig the channel right, and then tidal effects would take over. Water would flow from the Atlantic to the Pacific during certain times of day - hence the 'direction of flow' would be Brownseville to San Diego. This would reverse later on. 

Think of the benefits for local anglers ? The good people of New Mexico could fish for ocean fish along its banks :) 

The actual cut for the Panama Canal is only about 8 miles.  By damming up the Charges river forms Gatun Lake and that supplies all the water to run the locks (3 at each end).  The locks just have to raise shipping up 87 feet.  From the tropical rain forest, we would be building across two separate high deserts (Sonoran and Chihuahuan).  The minimum high point would be about 3500ft (Nogales).  Local watersheds do not provide that much water.  Without the benefit of a great water source, pumping (sea water) is the only alternative.  You’d need a controlled tsunami machine to create the required tidal effects.  How many locks would that be?  Maybe 240 total (using Panama as an estimate)?  And that would be a minimum.  It would be cheaper to fight Anthropomorphic Climate Change.  Farming along the lower Rio Grande would lose their watering rights and the fresh water wetlands would be killed off.

 

Geez…just let tidal effects provide the water.  That’s like using the tidal forces of the Severn or the Wye to cross the Malverns to get to the other side.  I wouldn't know why but someone from Midlands just might want to try that?? :D   BTW, my family originated from the Chesterfield/Derby area going back to the 1300s.

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Black Red Devil
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Myles said:

The plant I work at has a wall to keep people out.   It works well.

LMFAO, well this is it! The proof everyone needed to build the 10,000 miles long border wall.

Edited by Black Red Devil
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Farmer77
On 4/26/2019 at 5:47 PM, Ogbin said:

I believe Trumpians argue common sense..

I would actually agree with that kind of. The problem is the "common sense" solutions that sound great in soundbites are rarely actual solutions once you dig just a little deeper into the problem.

I.e a wall to stop illegal immigration sounds great, however, once you recognize that the majority of illegal immigrants come via legal ports of entry and simply overstay their visas the desperation to "build the wall" to stop illegal immigration kinda wanes

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aztek
10 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I would actually agree with that kind of. The problem is the "common sense" solutions that sound great in soundbites are rarely actual solutions once you dig just a little deeper into the problem.

I.e a wall to stop illegal immigration sounds great, however, once you recognize that the majority of illegal immigrants come via legal ports of entry and simply overstay their visas the desperation to "build the wall" to stop illegal immigration kinda wanes

bull crap, prove it.

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Farmer77

Seriously? Like is this an honest question? It cant be right? This far into the conversation you have to know this very basic immigration fact .....right? Hell just to be agreeable Ill concede the majority and say half. It really doesnt change my point at all.

 Most illegal immigration doesn’t come through the Mexican border where Trump wants to build his wall

Quote

During fiscal 2017, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) found that 701,900 immigrants with visas remained in the U.S. past their expected departure date, more than double the 303,916 immigrants apprehended at the border during that same time frame. A report by the Center for Migration Studies found this pattern to be true for every year since 2007.

 

This gem from the article is something I pointed out long ago

Quote

The Trump administration has intentionally limited the number of asylum cases processed at the border each day, a practice known as “metering,” in an attempt to dissuade immigrants from coming to the country. However, DHS has acknowledged that the practice “may have led to additional illegal border crossings.”

 

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Farmer77

 

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Dumbledore the Awesome
On 30/04/2019 at 10:55 AM, RoofGardener said:

it's true that the Cruella wall is only about 10km long. And it cost $33 million to build.

Cruella? Is that around Cruella de Vil of 101 Dalmatians? 

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ouija ouija
5 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Seriously? Like is this an honest question? It cant be right? This far into the conversation you have to know this very basic immigration fact .....right? Hell just to be agreeable Ill concede the majority and say half. It really doesnt change my point at all.

 Most illegal immigration doesn’t come through the Mexican border where Trump wants to build his wall

 

This gem from the article is something I pointed out long ago

 

Sorry to be difficult, but you have quoted numbers for immigrants apprehended at the border, and I'm wondering what the figure is for those that make it through without being apprehended? Probably an impossible number to calculate? And surely the point is not so much the rate at which illegal immigrants are making it through, but rather that some consider enough have already arrived .... no more should be 'absorbed'?

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acute

You don't need a wall, just a yellow line.

 

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RoofGardener
12 minutes ago, acute said:

You don't need a wall, just a yellow line.

 

That's BRILLIANT ! :o

 

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RoofGardener
6 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Seriously? Like is this an honest question? It cant be right? This far into the conversation you have to know this very basic immigration fact .....right? Hell just to be agreeable Ill concede the majority and say half. It really doesnt change my point at all.

 Most illegal immigration doesn’t come through the Mexican border where Trump wants to build his wall

 

This gem from the article is something I pointed out long ago

 

The wall is just one part of the armoury of the immigration authorities. 

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aztek
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Seriously? 

yea, seriously,  an anti trump left leaning source is what  you use ??? lmao.  have you noticed  posted BP tweets, how about caravans, no? doesn't ring a bell? of course not.  

in march of this year alone over 100k were apprehended, in 1!!! month 

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

what does it say to a person who can think?? that  BP agents catch only a small part,  but no,  shills  completely ignore common sense.  

now here is another kicker,  undocumented means they never had any visas, and can not overstay it,  Canadians are leader in overstaying, and last time i checked they do not jump southern border. like i said before many times, your claim of overstayed visas are just shils tactics, it wont fly, sell your snake oil, and fish fur someplace else

Edited by aztek

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RoofGardener
2 hours ago, aztek said:

....

now here is another kicker,  undocumented means they never had any visas, and can not overstay it,  Canadians are leader in overstaying, and last time i checked they do not jump southern border. like i said before many times, your claim of overstayed visas are just shils tactics, it wont fly, sell your snake oil, and fish fur someplace else

Umm.. that kinda reinforces @Farmer77 's point, @aztek. The Southern Wall wouldn't prevent Vile Canadians from overstaying their visa's and becoming illegal brown immigrants. 

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aztek
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Umm.. that kinda reinforces @Farmer77 's point, @aztek. The Southern Wall wouldn't prevent Vile Canadians from overstaying their visa's and becoming illegal brown immigrants. 

not at all, the southern wall is meant to stop border jumpers from the south,  Canadians or any other overstay are irrelevant, as far as SW goes, cuz they come in legally,  it is entirely different issue.   the wall is to STOP PEOPLE FROM COMING IN ILLEGALLY from the south. and they come in hundreds of thousands a month. (100k were apprehended in march alone, which means much more came thru)   idk how much simpler i can put it. . so it does not reinforce his point, it destroys it.

simple example you have a bad toothache and an internal bleeding but you do not want to do a surgery cuz  it wont fix your tooth problem, yes this is what his argument is.

Edited by aztek
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RoofGardener
21 minutes ago, aztek said:

not at all, the southern wall is meant to stop border jumpers from the south,  Canadians or any other overstay are irrelevant, as far as SW goes, cuz they come in legally,  it is entirely different issue.   the wall is to STOP PEOPLE FROM COMING IN ILLEGALLY from the south. and they come in hundreds of thousands a month. (100k were apprehended in march alone, which means much more came thru)   idk how much simpler i can put it. . so it does not reinforce his point, it destroys it.

simple example you have a bad toothache and an internal bleeding but you do not want to do a surgery cuz  it wont fix your tooth problem, yes this is what his argument is.

Nevertheless 

 

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Dark_Grey
On 30/04/2019 at 4:11 PM, Black Red Devil said:

LMFAO, well this is it! The proof everyone needed to build the 10,000 miles long border wall.

Until you can guarantee the people coming over the border have no ill intent, are disease free and have no serious criminal background, allowing the free flowing of people is lunacy. @Myles has a perfectly legitimate point about the walls around his workplace - you can scale the illegal immigration problem down to the residential level and the same concepts apply.

Why do you have locks on your front door? 
Why do you surround your property with fencing?
Why do you invest in alarm systems?

Answer those questions and you have justified a border wall. Why is security from criminals is important enough for your home but not for your nation? These are really basic ideas that for some reason are dismissed when we start talking nationally.

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Dark_Grey
27 minutes ago, aztek said:

not at all, the southern wall is meant to stop border jumpers from the south,  Canadians or any other overstay are irrelevant, as far as SW goes, cuz they come in legally,  it is entirely different issue.   the wall is to STOP PEOPLE FROM COMING IN ILLEGALLY from the south. and they come in hundreds of thousands a month. (100k were apprehended in march alone, which means much more came thru)   idk how much simpler i can put it. . so it does not reinforce his point, it destroys it.

simple example you have a bad toothache and an internal bleeding but you do not want to do a surgery cuz  it wont fix your tooth problem, yes this is what his argument is.

Canada is not a failed state run by drug cartels. It's a comparable first world country to America so there is significantly less danger in an open border. Valued trading partner, we share many of the same values, pretty simple answer. If anything Canada needs a wall separating itself from America as South America is South of you, not us. Ironically, there is a major problem with Canadian illegals in California lol damn Canadians driving up the crime rate and soaking up the tax dollars

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aztek
2 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

Canada is not a failed state run by drug cartels. It's a comparable first world country to America so there is significantly less danger in an open border. Valued trading partner, we share many of the same values, pretty simple answer. If anything Canada needs a wall separating itself from America as South America is South of you, not us. Ironically, there is a major problem with Canadian illegals in California lol damn Canadians driving up the crime rate and soaking up the tax dollars

that is why Canadians, and other overstay are totally separate issue, unrelated to south border,  also we know who they are where they are, they have been checked and cleared when they got visas,  totally different scenario on the south side.  it is a liberal thing to mix 2 unrelated issues and claim if a solution does not fix both it is not gonna work on either, absolute rubbish of an argument.

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aztek
17 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Nevertheless 

 

regardless

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RavenHawk
11 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

During fiscal 2017, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) found that 701,900 immigrants with visas remained in the U.S. past their expected departure date, more than double the 303,916 immigrants apprehended at the border during that same time frame. A report by the Center for Migration Studies found this pattern to be true for every year since 2007.

You still aren’t getting it are you?  There might be more that overstay their visa, but that still shows that at least 1/3rd of all illegals are still getting apprehended at the southern border.  As @ouija ouija pointed out, that is just those that have been apprehended.  Many more are not.  So why make the job more difficult than it should be?  If we don’t close the back door and secure it, anything else done is a waste of time and energy.  Close the damn door, then work on the overstays.  This is a big problem.  It’s going to take phases to fix.  Firm up the physical defenses first, then you won’t be playing whack-a-mole later on.  Q.E.D.

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Ogbin
13 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

I would actually agree with that kind of. The problem is the "common sense" solutions that sound great in soundbites are rarely actual solutions once you dig just a little deeper into the problem.

I.e a wall to stop illegal immigration sounds great, however, once you recognize that the majority of illegal immigrants come via legal ports of entry and simply overstay their visas the desperation to "build the wall" to stop illegal immigration kinda wanes

I agree that all solutions must be looked into thoroughly, especially the ones that sound to good to be true. I also agree with the fact that illegal immigrants and drugs come in in all sorts of ways.. Known fact. My question is to you kind sir is, what is the problem with closing All avenues of entry? The Border needs protecting, all of it. We don't live in an Utopian world just yet. And until we do, it is most wise to protect our country and its citizens, is it not? Yes, beef up our port of entries and improve our vetting procedures, I agree! but how does leaving our borders open for anyone to come through at will and unchecked help solve the problem? it's almost an oxymoronic action is it not? 

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Setton
5 hours ago, aztek said:

100k were apprehended in march alone, which means much more came thru

Source? 

How do you know what proportion of illegal immigrants are apprehended? 

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Setton
5 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

Until you can guarantee the people coming over the border have no ill intent, are disease free and have no serious criminal background, allowing the free flowing of people is lunacy. @Myles has a perfectly legitimate point about the walls around his workplace - you can scale the illegal immigration problem down to the residential level and the same concepts apply.

Why do you have locks on your front door? 
Why do you surround your property with fencing?
Why do you invest in alarm systems?

Answer those questions and you have justified a border wall. Why is security from criminals is important enough for your home but not for your nation? These are really basic ideas that for some reason are dismissed when we start talking nationally.

I don't think anyone's disputing that a wall could hypothetically be scaled up to work. Just that it's a ridiculously impractical proposition compared to much more efficient measures. 

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aztek
1 minute ago, Setton said:

Source? 

 

other than the one i linked right under the line you quoted, and cut out from response??   did BP site not support your illusion, same way Mueller report did not?

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