+and-then Posted June 3, 2019 #76 Share Posted June 3, 2019 On 5/19/2019 at 12:36 PM, Kismit said: people have a right to disapprove, even Bee. And it is incredibly ironic that she wood strongly voice her disapproval of someone else’ Right to voice their disapproval. I had to give a "hat tip" to the first part of your post. I agree wholeheartedly. I can't speak for bee but I didn't understand her comments to be disapproval of another's rights to be in opposition to ideas they don't share. I thought she was making the valid point that relations between nations and their leaders should maintain at least a small amount of etiquette and respect for the offices if not the office holder. If heaven forbid, Corbyn got elected as the UK PM and came for a state visit, I'd want our people to be civil to him and would upset if they weren't. I feel toward him almost as virulently as some feel against Trump but there is a time and place for venting spleens. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kismit Posted June 3, 2019 #77 Share Posted June 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, and then said: I had to give a "hat tip" to the first part of your post. I agree wholeheartedly. I can't speak for bee but I didn't understand her comments to be disapproval of another's rights to be in opposition to ideas they don't share. I thought she was making the valid point that relations between nations and their leaders should maintain at least a small amount of etiquette and respect for the offices if not the office holder. If heaven forbid, Corbyn got elected as the UK PM and came for a state visit, I'd want our people to be civil to him and would upset if they weren't. I feel toward him almost as virulently as some feel against Trump but there is a time and place for venting spleens. Our elected officials in a democratic society come with opposition. The two warring factions. Approval and disapproval. Speakers for the majority and speakers for the minority. They together create a reasonable balance of what a society actually needs going forward. A true reflection of the issues that the people of a nation are going through without making one group more dominant or powerful than another. Elected officials need and must have dissenting opinions, full stop. Or it is just plain communism. Fueled by cognitive dissonance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted June 3, 2019 #78 Share Posted June 3, 2019 Just now, Kismit said: Elected officials need and must have dissenting opinions, full stop Uh... is that lacking where Trump is concerned? My point isn't that dissenting opinions should be suppressed. I'm just saying that when leaders of one nation visit another it is customary to treat them with the respect due the Office. Plain old good manners, remember? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kismit Posted June 3, 2019 #79 Share Posted June 3, 2019 Just now, and then said: Uh... is that lacking where Trump is concerned? My point isn't that dissenting opinions should be suppressed. I'm just saying that when leaders of one nation visit another it is customary to treat them with the respect due the Office. Plain old good manners, remember? I get where you are coming from and on the whole it would appear that The American President is being treated with respect, however, no, not all world leaders should be treated with respect without question. That way dictatorship lies. And no, I am not calling Donald Trump a dictator, but I am also not calling him a diplomatic saint either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 3, 2019 #80 Share Posted June 3, 2019 1 hour ago, and then said: What morals? Or do disgusting, overt Jew haters have your approval? Chums with the Hamas are you? He is... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted June 3, 2019 #81 Share Posted June 3, 2019 Can`t we shut the London Mayor up for the day? He is making himself look unprofessional and not fit for office. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 3, 2019 #82 Share Posted June 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said: Can`t we shut the London Mayor up for the day? He is making himself look unprofessional and not fit for office. You know Trump isn't Mayor of London? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAyMO Posted June 3, 2019 #83 Share Posted June 3, 2019 2 hours ago, and then said: I'm just saying that when leaders of one nation visit another it is customary to treat them with the respect due the Office. Plain old good manners, remember? Officials of the government must show respect due the office. The people, however, in modern western societies at least, are and should be free to show as much or as little respect as they deem fit. A person does not gain respect from Office but through their words and actions which people are free to interpret in any positive or negative light as they see fit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted June 3, 2019 #84 Share Posted June 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, RAyMO said: Officials of the government must show respect due the office. The people, however, in modern western societies at least, are and should be free to show as much or as little respect as they deem fit. A person does not gain respect from Office but through their words and actions which people are free to interpret in any positive or negative light as they see fit. All people should be treated with respect and dignity That doesnt mean you have to agree with everybody. But there are far better and more professional ways of expressing how you disagree with the policies of someone than crying fascist and trying to prevent legitimate state visits. Corbyn sits and talks to terrorists and dictators with a bad track record on human rights. Yet he wont sit with Trump. Pathetic. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAyMO Posted June 3, 2019 #85 Share Posted June 3, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said: But there are far better and more professional ways of expressing how you disagree with the policies of someone than crying fascist whats the problem with calling out someones policies as fascist if that is what you believe they are, or the direction they are orientating towards. Besides its pretty mild compared to the insults Trump has delivered to Nations, Individuals and Groups. If he is big enough to fire off insults, he should be man enough to accept them in return. As for Corbyn - he entertains a myriad of views not all of which IMO are mutually compatible - its about time Momentum or whoever carries weight in the Labour Party, thanked him for his service .. Edited June 3, 2019 by RAyMO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted June 3, 2019 #86 Share Posted June 3, 2019 22 minutes ago, RAyMO said: whats the problem with calling out someones policies as fascist if that is what you believe they are, or the direction they are orientating towards. Besides its pretty mild compared to the insults Trump has delivered to Nations, Individuals and Groups. If he is big enough to fire off insults, he should be man enough to accept them in return. As for Corbyn - he entertains a myriad of views not all of which IMO are mutually compatible - its about time Momentum or whoever carries weight in the Labour Party, thanked him for his service .. Our politicians should be conducting themselves in a manner compatible with public life. The fact the Mayor of London cannot shows me he isn't right to hold his office. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted June 3, 2019 #87 Share Posted June 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said: Our politicians should be conducting themselves in a manner compatible with public life. does donald trump? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted June 3, 2019 #88 Share Posted June 3, 2019 1 hour ago, RAyMO said: whats the problem with calling out someones policies as fascist if that is what you believe they are, or the direction they are orientating towards. Besides its pretty mild compared to the insults Trump has delivered to Nations, Individuals and Groups. If he is big enough to fire off insults, he should be man enough to accept them in return. As for Corbyn - he entertains a myriad of views not all of which IMO are mutually compatible - its about time Momentum or whoever carries weight in the Labour Party, thanked him for his service .. what does he take fascism to mean? It would be interesting to see what he defines it as, or otherwise it's just as petty an insult (or actually not so petty, bearing in mind what real fascist states were like) as anything The Fabulous Donald pours out on twitter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted June 3, 2019 #89 Share Posted June 3, 2019 5 hours ago, and then said: What morals? Or do disgusting, overt Jew haters have your approval? Chums with the Hamas are you? He is... And there's another example right there. You're just as childish and silly as they both are. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAyMO Posted June 3, 2019 #90 Share Posted June 3, 2019 31 minutes ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said: what does he take fascism to mean? That's fair. Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerBright19 Posted June 3, 2019 #91 Share Posted June 3, 2019 If Corbyn continues to insult Trump and becomes PM then how on Earth can he negotiate a good trade deal with America when we leave the EU? British politicians should be kissing Trump's ass right now, not kicking it back to America. We need him, more than he needs us. The D-Day anniversary should make that obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted June 3, 2019 #92 Share Posted June 3, 2019 (edited) That's essentially blackmail. The classic bullying tactics that's all the Trump administration, if you can dignify it with the term, can ever do. "You need us, so be nice to us goddamit." Because we (the Tory Government of former PM Theresa May) are such a useless gang of incompetents we must suck up the world's leading bullying nation, which is governed by an unstable, irrational idiot with the mental age of an eight-year old, because they've promised to be our bestest friend, just as long as we always do what they tell us to do, always assuming that America's Giant Baby doesn't throw another tantrum and decide he won't be our bestest friend after all if anyone else is rude to him". Edited June 3, 2019 by Dumbledore the Awesome 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerBright19 Posted June 3, 2019 #93 Share Posted June 3, 2019 Britain needs a powerful ally, now more than ever. It doesn't matter about the individual character of a person. It is their dotted signature on a trade agreement that matters more. e.g. Just like being nice to a nasty family relative in the hopes of inheriting their money. We may not want him, but by jove, we need him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted June 3, 2019 #94 Share Posted June 3, 2019 the Queen making a speech to welcome the US president - BBC News cheers ..... even the BBC have to behave themselves when the Queen is involved... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 3, 2019 #95 Share Posted June 3, 2019 3 hours ago, Aaron2016 said: If Corbyn continues to insult Trump and becomes PM then how on Earth can he negotiate a good trade deal with America when we leave the EU? British politicians should be kissing Trump's ass right now, not kicking it back to America. We need him, more than he needs us. I thought we were supposed to be a proud independent country post-Brexit. Why are we trading an equal partnership in the EU to become a lapdog to the US? Quote The D-Day anniversary should make that obvious. The D-Day anniversary reminds us the US is an, at best, unreliable friend. Nothing more. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted June 3, 2019 #96 Share Posted June 3, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, bee said: the Queen making a speech to welcome the US president - BBC News cheers ..... even the BBC have to behave themselves when the Queen is involved... Trump is coming off well in this state visit with Corbyn and Khan looking like immature cry baby idiots. Did you notice that the Queen seems to really like the President? They seem to get on well which could be good for a future trade deal. Fingers crossed. Lets see how she likes Farage and Boris over the coming days. Edited June 3, 2019 by RabidMongoose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted June 3, 2019 #97 Share Posted June 3, 2019 8 hours ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said: does donald trump? Try that while standing at the bottom of a hill of sh1t for 2 years and then get back to us with your appraisal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted June 3, 2019 #98 Share Posted June 3, 2019 8 hours ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said: And there's another example right there. You're just as childish and silly as they both are. He's a fecking anti-Semite who chums about with the Hamas. Care to dispute that with evidence? I think he's a vile, disgusting thug and it saddens me that he might actually occupy 10 Downing at some point. How the mighty have fallen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 3, 2019 #99 Share Posted June 3, 2019 31 minutes ago, and then said: I think he's a vile, disgusting thug and it saddens me that he might actually occupy 10 Downing at some point. How the mighty have fallen. Pot-kettle. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAyMO Posted June 4, 2019 #100 Share Posted June 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Aaron2016 said: It is their dotted signature on a trade agreement that matters more didn't do Mexico much good. signed agreements with trump are not worth the paper they are written on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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