RoofGardener Posted June 5, 2019 #176 Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Setton said: I should have been clearer. Any time the US has committed troops to our defence? As opposed to just money or weapons. If we fight the USs wars for just money, what does that make us? Mercenaries? Has the USA committed troops to our defence ? You DO recognise the irony of you asking THAT question ? On THIS date ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandy_landings 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted June 5, 2019 #177 Share Posted June 5, 2019 27 minutes ago, Setton said: Yes, because the US didn't help us when needed. They came in long after we'd dealt with the threat to our land. So you're saying U S involvement in both worlds wars had no effect? Lol. Was unneeded? Seems like a pretty big leap. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsnotoutthere Posted June 5, 2019 #178 Share Posted June 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: Has the USA committed troops to our defence ? You DO recognise the irony of you asking THAT question ? On THIS date ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandy_landings You're probably wasting your time. I'll bet money his father never fought in WW2, mind did, and told me many stories of things that he saw during his deployment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted June 5, 2019 #179 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Also a question for all. Who honestly believes that If the U.K was invaded tomorrow that the U S would not end up getting involved ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 5, 2019 #180 Share Posted June 5, 2019 12 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: AOK.. lets summarise. When it comes to THIS particular issue, you are being a total moron. Which is strange, because normally you are very incisive. Ah well.. I guess everybody has their blind spots. Well, except ME of course. I'm perfect Again, no specifics. What is moronic about what I am saying? Can you name a single time the US has committed troops to our defence? All I'm asking is that you take an objective look - how far are we benefiting from this special relationship? If the US goes to war with Iran, they will expect us to follow. Why should we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 5, 2019 #181 Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: Has the USA committed troops to our defence ? You DO recognise the irony of you asking THAT question ? On THIS date ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandy_landings As i said previously - to our defence. We had already won the Battle of Britain. With the US nowhere to be seen. You could definitely argue that the US came to France's aid and Europe's. Although did they do so to defend their allies or because they were attacked themselves? Ours? Not so much. Edited June 5, 2019 by Setton 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 5, 2019 #182 Share Posted June 5, 2019 10 minutes ago, spartan max2 said: So you're saying U S involvement in both worlds wars had no effect? Lol. Was unneeded? Seems like a pretty big leap. That is not what I said. I said the US did not come to the UKs defence when it was needed. We could not have won the second world war without the US and Russia. But we had won the battle for our country well before the US were forced into the war. Again, they did not join to defend their allies but because they were themselves attacked. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted June 5, 2019 #183 Share Posted June 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Setton said: That is not what I said. I said the US did not come to the UKs defence when it was needed. We could not have won the second world war without the US and Russia. But we had won the battle for our country well before the US were forced into the war. Again, they did not join to defend their allies but because they were themselves attacked. If the U.K was invaded today do you honestly think the U S would not get involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted June 5, 2019 #184 Share Posted June 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, Setton said: As i said previously - to our defence. We had already won the Battle of Britain. With the US nowhere to be seen. You could definitely argue that the US came to France's aid and Europe's. Although did they do so to defend their allies or because they were attacked themselves? Ours? Not so much. Because they were attacked themselves? They were attacked by the Japanese. Would you be prepared to go so far as to concede that those American troops, planes etc played a rather crucial role in driving Hitler out of France? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerBright19 Posted June 5, 2019 #185 Share Posted June 5, 2019 As we remember D-day 75 years ago I recommend the film '36 Hours' Short summary (with a good twist) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 5, 2019 #186 Share Posted June 5, 2019 42 minutes ago, spartan max2 said: If the U.K was invaded today do you honestly think the U S would not get involved? No, I don't. But we've got involved supporting the US without their country being invaded. We have their back. When have they had ours? 39 minutes ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said: Because they were attacked themselves? They were attacked by the Japanese. Correct, so they entered the war to defend themselves, not anyone else. The Japanese were allied to Germany so if you're going to fight one, you'll be fighting both (that's how alliances are supposed to work). Quote Would you be prepared to go so far as to concede that those American troops, planes etc played a rather crucial role in driving Hitler out of France? I've not disputed that at all. Hell, I've said it outright. What I am saying is that the US has never committed troops solely to defend UK territory or interests. We have done that for them. So, is this a partnership of equals or are we subservient got the US? My issue isn't so much with the past but how the past informs the present and future. If the US goes to war with Iran, why should we support them? Why should our men and women die for their interests when theirs have never done the same for us? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted June 5, 2019 #187 Share Posted June 5, 2019 52 minutes ago, Setton said: That is not what I said. I said the US did not come to the UKs defence when it was needed. We could not have won the second world war without the US and Russia. But we had won the battle for our country well before the US were forced into the war. Again, they did not join to defend their allies but because they were themselves attacked. How do you think we'd have done without lend/lease what about the 1000s of American sailors who lost their lives delivering their much needed cargo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 5, 2019 #188 Share Posted June 5, 2019 51 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said: How do you think we'd have done without lend/lease what about the 1000s of American sailors who lost their lives delivering their much needed cargo. Still does not change the question - when has the US put its troops on the line to defend our interests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted June 5, 2019 #189 Share Posted June 5, 2019 19 minutes ago, Setton said: Still does not change the question - when has the US put its troops on the line to defend our interests? WW1 and WW2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted June 5, 2019 #190 Share Posted June 5, 2019 6 hours ago, spartan max2 said: You seem to have a big hatred of the U.S You'd think we had tortured his dog BEFORE we shot it I can only take Setton in small doses for that reason. He has a right to hate whoever he chooses but it's passe and boring to hate America. Who doesn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 5, 2019 #191 Share Posted June 5, 2019 13 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said: WW1 and WW2 Read the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 5, 2019 #192 Share Posted June 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, and then said: You'd think we had tortured his dog BEFORE we shot it I can only take Setton in small doses for that reason. He has a right to hate whoever he chooses but it's passe and boring to hate America. Who doesn't? Read the thread. I don't hate the US. I merely question the balance of our 'special relationship'. Apparently that equates to hatred. Clearly a partnership of equals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 5, 2019 #193 Share Posted June 5, 2019 2 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said: You're probably wasting your time. I'll bet money his father never fought in WW2, mind did, and told me many stories of things that he saw during his deployment. No, he didn't. On account of being born in 1956. Both my grandfathers, however, did. One wounded in action and the other never spoke about it to anyone. I still don't know exactly what his medals were for. Now **** off back in your box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted June 5, 2019 #194 Share Posted June 5, 2019 15 minutes ago, Setton said: Read the thread. I don't hate the US. I merely question the balance of our 'special relationship'. Apparently that equates to hatred. Clearly a partnership of equals. Guy, you may tell yourself you don't hate us but you certainly seem to do. Do you think that when Britannia ruled the world, they treated everyone as equals? I LIKE Britain, always have. But the fact is in global realpolitik, the most powerful nation "calls the shots". It has always been so. It's just the way of the world. I'm no history scholar but I don't recall America crapping on the UK. As to you overlooking or dismissing America coming into WWII as an ally, I think that's ridiculous to the point of being offensive. We didn't jump in as early as Winston would have liked but we retooled and repurposed manufacturing and became an armory for you guys AND Russia, at least early on. We didn't do it just for the sake of common histories and culture but we DID do it. The reference to us not shedding any blood for the Falklands was confusing. WHY on earth would you ask us to? It would have been a massive insult to your armed forces. I personally think the west - all of us - are soon going to face a rising tide of violent Islamofascism and it will again take a joint effort to prevail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted June 5, 2019 #195 Share Posted June 5, 2019 5 hours ago, susieice said: Oh no! Somebody killed the blimp! https://metro.co.uk/2019/06/05/donald-trump-baby-blimp-stabbed-tommy-robinson-supporter-9812318/ I wonder what kind of penalty she'll have to pay? Too funny... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted June 5, 2019 #196 Share Posted June 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Setton said: If the US goes to war with Iran, they will expect us to follow. Why should we? First, that's not going to happen. Second, if it did flare up we wouldn't need your military for the work we'd be doing. Well, having some SAS to help target sites, maybe It would be a devastating air campaign and Naval bombardment. The U.S. has no need or desire to put thousands of troops into Iran. Hell, most of the country is under-30s and prefer our culture to that of the mullahs and the Basij. Finally, I think it's a question of who benefits when such actions are undertaken. The fanboys of Iran or Russia or whoever America is in opposition to can manfully deny the need to resist the fundamentalist Shia regime in Iran but only a fool would roll the dice on allowing that regime to have a chokehold on the movement of most of the world's current daily energy requirement. Imagine lil Kim in NK having the ability to get up on no particular day of the week and tweak the world oil markets with threats or actual attacks on shipping through a chokepoint. How much of Britain's energy is imported? I ask because I have no idea but even if you guys didn't need oil from the gulf, you still depend on a healthy global economy and nuclear weapons make blackmail pretty darned easy and effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted June 6, 2019 #197 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Seems like the Ireland conundrum was settled with a compromise. They met at the Airport VP lounge and then Trump went to his golf course: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-ireland-golf_n_5cf82efde4b0e3e3df14abab He had threatened to not go at all if the meeting wasn't at his golf course earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted June 6, 2019 #198 Share Posted June 6, 2019 7 hours ago, Setton said: No, he didn't. On account of being born in 1956. Both my grandfathers, however, did. One wounded in action and the other never spoke about it to anyone. I still don't know exactly what his medals were for. what a pity you never seemed to take any interest to find out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 6, 2019 #199 Share Posted June 6, 2019 30 minutes ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said: what a pity you never seemed to take any interest to find out Which part of 'never spoke about it' so you find difficult? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted June 6, 2019 #200 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Since this seems to have wandered off into a general attack on America, let's go back to Sadiq Khan. Quote What Sadiq said about Trump in the Observer – that his actions are like those of the ‘European dictators of the 1930s and 40s’ and that he is the figurehead of a ‘global far-right movement’ that is ‘using the same divisive tropes of the fascists of the 20th century’ I really think there ought to be a rule that anyone with that level of ignorance should be disqualified from office. And I don't mean Trump this time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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