Donald Trump 'set for June state visit to UK'

[skliss]

11 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Well sure that is all it is.  You may have noticed even on this site the large number of posters who feel that America has been ripped off by the rest of the world.  Many American people say they are tired of being taken advantage of and played for suckers.

President Trump has even said Britain is ripping us off along with the rest of Europe.

President Trump loves tariffs and hates trade deficits. 

He has been successful so far at using tariffs as a stick.  He says he just got an excellent deal with Mexico using the threat of that stick to strengthen their border AND buy a lot more agricultural products from American farmers starting immediately..

We trade about 3x the value with Mexico as we do with the UK.  In fact UK comes in 5th or 6th as a US trading partner.   So you might even be easier to squeeze a bit than Mexico.

Fortunately, the US had a $5 billion dollar trade surplus with UK in 2018.  As long as you can keep that up. deals will be made.  Most likely that balance will be a demand in any future negotiations. 

 

And? We should lose in every deal just to make everyone (you) "feel" better? No wonder you are a Dem. "Please sir, can I have another?!"

[Duke Wellington]

2 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

True.  This thing about Trump with trade surplus and deficits is quite mind boggling.  Somehow he seems to believe other countries are taking advantage of the US if they have a trade surplus and this is a disadvantage to the US economy.  If US businesses get cheaper electronic items from China as part of a trade deal it's good for the US economy.  It's good for retail and employment and above all, any economic expert will tell you, when consumers spend their penny's it stimulates the economy and gives retailers confidence. 

He's managed to convince China into buying more US products as part of a new trade deal but it's still not enough and keeps pushing for more because he wants to close the surplus and deficit gap between the two countries.  Why would China want to buy more American Cars for example if they can get cheaper ones that sell in China?  If their retailers can't sell them how is this a good business deal for the Chinese Economy?  So he's risking to ruin businesses for thousands of US retailers and consumers if he can't negotiate a deal with China just to balance his trade deficit. Crazy

While a trade surplus looks good on paper it doesn't provide a healthier economy.  Then again, he probably has expert Economists providing him with the best advice so I suppose he knows what he's doing..... I hope.

The trade balance of a country represents if money is flowing in or out of it.

In a simplistic economic model a Chinese surplus would mean they are getting richer, and an American deficit would mean they are getting poorer. In reality its more complicated than that because of natural resources. For instance if 100 tonnes of gold moves from the USA to China in a year but the USA mines 100 tonnes then the country hasn't gotten poorer. Likewise, it does having to been mining of gold but production or mining of any resource.

But with the vast trade balance gap between the two countries it is certain the USA has been getting poorer while China has been getting richer. Is that fair? Well no. Not because fair trade isn't wrong. But because the Chinese Government artificially keep their currency low so as to subsidize its exports.

Lets frame it another way. If the USA applied negative taxes to exports would other countries be happy about that? So instead of a firm paying £20 tax on a HDTV being exported it receives £20 and can knock it off the price? its an unfair advantage and why Trump is cracking down on China.

Edited June 10, 2019 by RabidMongoose

[Tatetopa]

8 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

While a trade surplus looks good on paper it doesn't provide a healthier economy.  Then again, he probably has expert Economists providing him with the best advice so I suppose he knows what he's doing..... I hope.

His economists either quit, keep their mouth's shut or take the path of least resistance and jump on the bandwagon.

There does seem to be a fixation here and to some degree it is self limiting.  As the US economy strengthens, the value of the dollar against other currencies goes up.  Imports become cheaper and exports become more expensive for other countries to buy.  A little too early to call it a long term trend on write off the President's strategy, but this year, the national debt has gone up at record speed (tax cuts perhaps not returning growth levels as promised) and the trade deficit has also gone up.

 

[Tatetopa]

6 hours ago, skliss said:

And? We should lose in every deal just to make everyone (you) "feel" better? No wonder you are a Dem. "Please sir, can I have another?!"

Did I say we should lose at deals?  No I did not.   You can be the strongest kid on the playground and stand up for your own rights as well as your weaker classmates.  Or you can be a bully. I am not a full time Democrat, but I can't stand a bully, it is just the way I was taught.  I can't shake it.  That is why I can never go full Conservative.  Conservatives  have the victim mentality, they  think they  are being cheated and insulted.  If not by foreigners, then by poor people and other groups in our own country. 

Over the years, the United States Government has done some stupid things. We have tried to buy the loyalty of foreign dictators or radical groups by giving them money and arms.  In the long term, it does not work.   They were never our friends, they never shared our principles, and they turned against us when they no longer needed us.

When people relate to people, US citizens to their counterparts in other countries, they do not spit on us or think we are suckers. We get along very well with people who share some ideas about freedom, self-governance, equality, and peaceful relations.

You think the people of Honduras think we are suckers and they spit on us even as they want to come into the US? Not true.

They don't.  We did not give the people of Honduras money.  The United States Government gave money to an autocratic near dictator in the Honduran government to keep him in power because we like stability.

That is stupid.  Helping dictators is a sucker move.  But one does not have to go 180 in the other direction.  We might not have had the flood of immigrants if we had helped people and not propped up unpopular governments trying to stay in power.   But I know, that is a Democrat point of view.

[Tatetopa]

6 hours ago, skliss said:

You ignored the question...whom have we "humiliated" and how. Negotiations happen all the time in every deal with every country on earth. Why is it when we ask for what's fair suddenly that's intimidation? 

Mexico and Canada for starters.  You don't have to start out by slapping a tariff on someone then negotiating.   In the case of those countries we have had good relations for many years.  Canada has been with us through every military conflict.  They have been a good ally.  China is a problem for us but Canada is much weaker so we lean on them.  They were not dumping steel and aluminum on the US by supporting state industries.  But we pull out all the stops; give us other things we want or we put tariffs on you.  It was not about steel and aluminum, we wanted other things.  That is intimidation.

How in the world do you think deals are made?  Negotiations are started by getting together and saying , "here is what we want., what do you want in return?"  The we deal.  There is give and take, but we always stand firm on some issues.

The only "fair"  in a negotiation is when both parties come away satisfied, that is the only definition of fair there is in business.  We are the most powerful nation in the world, it is ok if we use some leverage.  

[stevewinn]

Tell you what we Brits know how to do a state visit don't we, the weather was great too, TV pictures looked awesome, should boost tourism. and Trump done America proud when on official duty. good speeches etc...

[Black Red Devil]

7 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

The trade balance of a country represents if money is flowing in or out of it.

In a simplistic economic model a Chinese surplus would mean they are getting richer, and an American deficit would mean they are getting poorer. In reality its more complicated than that because of natural resources. For instance if 100 tonnes of gold moves from the USA to China in a year but the USA mines 100 tonnes then the country hasn't gotten poorer. Likewise, it does having to been mining of gold but production or mining of any resource.

But with the vast trade balance gap between the two countries it is certain the USA has been getting poorer while China has been getting richer. Is that fair? Well no. Not because fair trade isn't wrong. But because the Chinese Government artificially keep their currency low so as to subsidize its exports.

Lets frame it another way. If the USA applied negative taxes to exports would other countries be happy about that? So instead of a firm paying £20 tax on a HDTV being exported it receives £20 and can knock it off the price? its an unfair advantage and why Trump is cracking down on China.

An American deficit does not mean they are getting poorer.  As i said, if consumers in the US are buying and spending it means the Economy is strong.  It also allows foreign investors to invest in the US.  There are a whole series of factors to consider in a trade deal with another country, it's just not down to a balance of import and exports. 

What China has been doing successfully is enforce protectionism on Chinese industry while 'stealing' intellectual property from other nations.  In this case I agree with Trump's actions but when he takes it out on the NAFTA agreement to bully and get his way because of other unrelated factors (Mexican immigration and because he doesn't like Trudeau) all he is doing is damage the US economy, damaging his two biggest trading partners (Canada and Mexico) and risking to cause a global recession. 

Unfortunately this is the world we live in, because of some rich, spoiled, obnoxious individual who has been getting things his way all his life, the rest of us are affected.  Nobody should be this powerful.

[Black Red Devil]

41 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Tell you what we Brits know how to do a state visit don't we, the weather was great too, TV pictures looked awesome, should boost tourism. and Trump done America proud when on official duty. good speeches etc...

Yeah but tapping the Queens back....you know....totally unacceptable!!

[skliss]

8 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

I am not a full time Democrat,

Oh Please...lol

8 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Conservatives  have the victim mentality, 

Exactly the opposite is true...Dems have made being victims or entitling victims into an art form.

I'm not copying the rest of yet another book....bottom line is we rolled over so many times and took so many rotten deals, losing money hand over fist and having the burden fall on the middle class, that we lost respect (or face) around the world. It's time to stand up for ourselves and quit letting the American people be walked all over and squeezed dry.

And yes I think the illegal immigrants think..what a bunch of fools....I can go there and get anything for free and sadly, that's more and more true.

 

Edited June 11, 2019 by skliss
Change

[skliss]

8 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Mexico and Canada for starters.  You don't have to start out by slapping a tariff on someone then negotiating.   In the case of those countries we have had good relations for many years.  Canada has been with us through every military conflict.  They have been a good ally.  China is a problem for us but Canada is much weaker so we lean on them.  They were not dumping steel and aluminum on the US by supporting state industries.  But we pull out all the stops; give us other things we want or we put tariffs on you.  It was not about steel and aluminum, we wanted other things.  That is intimidation.

How in the world do you think deals are made?  Negotiations are started by getting together and saying , "here is what we want., what do you want in return?"  The we deal.  There is give and take, but we always stand firm on some issues.

The only "fair"  in a negotiation is when both parties come away satisfied, that is the only definition of fair there is in business.  We are the most powerful nation in the world, it is ok if we use some leverage.  

You totally contradict yourself from beginning to end. Apparently there were negotiations being made but no resolution until tariffs were to be put in place....now we don't have to ...negotiation/leverage. Canada and Mexico are just fine...I think you are stretching or projecting your own feelings onto a situation that requires none.

[+and-then]

21 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

You’re country is gridlocked and politically fickle. 

From what I've seen ata distance it hasn't been the Brexiteers who've been indecisive.  Their damned "representatives" have been trying to hamstring them.  That's not an example of fickleness, it's evidence of sabotage, IMO.

[Unusual Tournament]

1 hour ago, and then said:

From what I've seen ata distance it hasn't been the Brexiteers who've been indecisive.  Their damned "representatives" have been trying to hamstring them.  That's not an example of fickleness, it's evidence of sabotage, IMO.

Mate I’ve been reading and posting about it for 3 years and I can tell you none and I mean none of the Brexit leaders has been honest with either the public, their leader or each other. It’s a free for all. Weak and indecisive politicians that refuse to compromise. Real Byzantine chit.

[Tatetopa]

13 hours ago, skliss said:

Exactly the opposite is true...Dems have made being victims or entitling victims into an art form.

I'm not copying the rest of yet another book....bottom line is we rolled over so many times and took so many rotten deals, losing money hand over fist and having the burden fall on the middle class, that we lost respect (or face) around the world. It's time to stand up for ourselves and quit letting the American people be walked all over and squeezed dry.

And yes I think the illegal immigrants think..what a bunch of fools....I can go there and get anything for free and sadly, that's more and more true.

OK good.

[Space Commander Travis]

13 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Mate I’ve been reading and posting about it for 3 years

Oh yes, he's arguably the world's leading expert  

[Duke Wellington]

On ‎10‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 7:04 PM, Tatetopa said:

Did I say we should lose at deals?  No I did not.   You can be the strongest kid on the playground and stand up for your own rights as well as your weaker classmates.  Or you can be a bully. I am not a full time Democrat, but I can't stand a bully, it is just the way I was taught.  I can't shake it.  That is why I can never go full Conservative.  Conservatives  have the victim mentality, they  think they  are being cheated and insulted.  If not by foreigners, then by poor people and other groups in our own country. 

Over the years, the United States Government has done some stupid things. We have tried to buy the loyalty of foreign dictators or radical groups by giving them money and arms.  In the long term, it does not work.   They were never our friends, they never shared our principles, and they turned against us when they no longer needed us.

When people relate to people, US citizens to their counterparts in other countries, they do not spit on us or think we are suckers. We get along very well with people who share some ideas about freedom, self-governance, equality, and peaceful relations.

You think the people of Honduras think we are suckers and they spit on us even as they want to come into the US? Not true.

They don't.  We did not give the people of Honduras money.  The United States Government gave money to an autocratic near dictator in the Honduran government to keep him in power because we like stability.

That is stupid.  Helping dictators is a sucker move.  But one does not have to go 180 in the other direction.  We might not have had the flood of immigrants if we had helped people and not propped up unpopular governments trying to stay in power.   But I know, that is a Democrat point of view.

The problem with the political left is they want to live in an ideal world. Not only is that impossible but one persons idea of an ideal world varies to the next. 

We often here people in the media saying their country shouldn't talk to another country because of (insert whatever ideal is missing here). Does cutting ties with them achieve a change in the other country? No. Do trade sanctions do anything except harm the wealth of both sides? No. Does it damage relationships with the target country? Yes. 

The problem with the political left in the US (and similar countries too) is they want the rest of the world to be like them when it doesnt want to be. Not only do most of their own citizens not agree with them, foreign countries dont either. Bad mouthing other countries, trade sanctions, cutting ties with them, only turns them into enemies. It does not affect a change in them unless a military invasion occurs.

The hyper-sensitive super-volatile political left expect everybody in their own nation and other overseas countries to creep around them on eggshells and completely cave into their will. Thankfully the rest of us say on your bike from Trump to Brexit! The world does not revolve around them and if they cannot cope with that then its their problem.

We should sell weapons too and trade with nations that are different to us. We should turn them into our friends rather than our enemies. We need to respect differences and the diversity present with other countries not cut our ties with them and demand they change into a replica of us.

Our concern needs to be helping others to help ourselves. Not treating others as enemies so that they become our enemies. And crucially, we do not exist to fix the rest of the worlds problems.

Edited June 12, 2019 by RabidMongoose