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OverSword

IRS fails to hand over Trump tax returns

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OverSword
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The U.S. Internal Revenue Service on Tuesday failed to meet a congressional deadline for turning over President Donald Trump's tax returns to lawmakers, setting the stage for a court battle between Congress and the administration.  The outcome, which was widely expected, could prompt House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Richard Neal to subpoena Trump's tax records as the opening salvo to a legal fight that may ultimately have to be settled by the U.S. Supreme Court.

 

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I had no idea that the IRS had been asked to do so.

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ExpandMyMind
29 minutes ago, OverSword said:

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I had no idea that the IRS had been asked to do so.

From what I gather, whoever refused the order from Congress can, under the law, be removed and prosecuted. Congress has the right and power to subpoena any tax records they wish. It's part of their duties.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
3 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

From what I gather, whoever refused the order from Congress can, under the law, be removed and prosecuted. Congress has the right and power to subpoena any tax records they wish. It's part of their duties.

Yes, EMM, and it will always be that Congress (dem controlled) will subpoena any REPUB tax records they wish, especially if REPUB won an election.

This is what democrats call "equal protection".

 

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Piney

This should be entertaining. :yes:

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The Wistman
Posted (edited)

Just to be fair here (I'm not a supporter of either party BTW), Republicans have done much the same and worse in the past.  Remember Obama's nomination for the Supreme Court, Merrick Garland?  McConnell held up hearings for over a year so that the process would go numb until another president...a Republican president...could usurp the nomination and stack the court.  Nothing like that had ever been done before, and probably it was unconstitutional. There are many, many other examples like this, especially during the Bush/Cheney years in power.  What the Democrats are doing in demanding to see Trump's tax returns is not only legal, but is inherently part of their duties as a check and balance on the White House because of what was revealed in the Michael Cohen hearing. 

Edited by The Wistman
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Black Red Devil

I anticipate some of his invoices to be along the lines of the below document :P

image.png.793b0ad00b1637469766733068efb3b8.png

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hacktorp
40 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

From what I gather, whoever refused the order from Congress can, under the law, be removed and prosecuted. Congress has the right and power to subpoena any tax records they wish. It's part of their duties.

Wrong again...you are really on a tear today.  Congress can subpoena anything they wish, but compliance is subject to individual rights.

The Supreme Court will NEVER require an individual to hand over tax returns to any congressional body whose only purpose is to harass and pursue false allegations.  NEVER.

You've got the loser's hat-trick...care to try for another?

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Raptor Witness
6 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

I anticipate some of his invoices to be along the lines of the below document :P

image.png.793b0ad00b1637469766733068efb3b8.png

Best laugh of the day, so far.

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RavenHawk
53 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

From what I gather, whoever refused the order from Congress can, under the law, be removed and prosecuted. Congress has the right and power to subpoena any tax records they wish. It's part of their duties.

And the IRS has an obligation to protect confidential information of individuals.

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Raptor Witness

The IRS needs some breathing room, I expect.

With their new authority, the House is on fire with no water in sight. That fire began with a decisive election.

As for house Trump .....

 

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and then
 
 
1
31 minutes ago, The Wistman said:

Just to be fair here (I'm not a supporter of either party BTW), Republicans have done much the same and worse in the past.  Remember Obama's nomination for the Supreme Court, Merrick Garland?  McConnell held up hearings for over a year so that the process would go numb until another president...a Republican president...could usurp the nomination and stack the court.  Nothing like that had ever been done before, and probably it was unconstitutional. There are many, many other examples like this, especially during the Bush/Cheney years in power.  What the Democrats are doing in demanding to see Trump's tax returns is not only legal, but is inherently part of their duties as a check and balance on the White House because of what was revealed in the Michael Cohen hearing. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/23/us/politics/joe-biden-argued-for-delaying-supreme-court-picks-in-1992.html 

Uh...no...

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Earl.Of.Trumps
51 minutes ago, The Wistman said:

 

 

52 minutes ago, The Wistman said:

What the Democrats are doing in demanding to see Trump's tax returns is not only legal, but is inherently part of their duties as a check and balance on the White House because of what was revealed in the Michael Cohen hearing. 

Tell me Wistman…  because it was revealed that Hilary Clinton received $145 million from Vlad Putin (essentially) for her role in selling 20% of US uranium stock to Russia (presumably),, was it part of Democrat's duties to look closely into Hilary's financial records...?    No.....?

Repeat after me, "Democrat - good... Republican - BAD!!!"

 

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Gromdor
9 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

 

Tell me Wistman…  because it was revealed that Hilary Clinton received $145 million from Vlad Putin (essentially) for her role in selling 20% of US uranium stock to Russia (presumably),, was it part of Democrat's duties to look closely into Hilary's financial records...?    No.....?

Repeat after me, "Democrat - good... Republican - BAD!!!"

 

Yeah, why didn't the Republicans look at Hillary's taxes when they controlled the house?  Ah, never mind- she released them during the election.

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Big Jim

The heading says the "IRS fails" but are they failing or following the law?  Surely, protecting tax payers' privacy is one of the mandates of the IRS and I'm assuming they would need a compelling legal reason to release any individual's information.  Since this quest began when Trump was a candidate the returns being sought were filed by a private citizen.  He's not under indictment for anything and he was recently audited by the IRS itself so it seems obvious that this subpoena was issued for purely political purposes.  Providing ammunition for political attacks is not within the duties of the IRS and Congress should face some kind of censure or penalty for trying to force them to do so.

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CrimsonKing

Sooooooooo....

Now the IRS is covering up for Trump?

Sorry but this garbage has went far and beyond delusional!...

Being left wing is really starting to look like a severe mental issue!

"Well the IRS won't hand over his returns,must be hiding something!"

Seriously folks,it's time for some theraputic help...i'm worried for lefties if its come to this.

Just WOW!

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Gromdor
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

The heading says the "IRS fails" but are they failing or following the law?  Surely, protecting tax payers' privacy is one of the mandates of the IRS and I'm assuming they would need a compelling legal reason to release any individual's information.  Since this quest began when Trump was a candidate the returns being sought were filed by a private citizen.  He's not under indictment for anything and he was recently audited by the IRS itself so it seems obvious that this subpoena was issued for purely political purposes.  Providing ammunition for political attacks is not within the duties of the IRS and Congress should face some kind of censure or penalty for trying to force them to do so.

The demand that the House sent to the IRS referenced him overstating his net worth to secure a loan.  So bank fraud is what they are investigating: https://buffalonews.com/2019/02/27/cohen-claims-calls-trump-a-cheat-citing-records-used-in-2014-bid-to-buy-bills/

Edited by Gromdor
wrong bank fraud link.
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Earl.Of.Trumps
1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

Yeah, why didn't the Republicans look at Hillary's taxes when they controlled the house?  Ah, never mind- she released them during the election.

She had that well planned out, Grom. very clever woman.  All her dirty dealings went into "Clinton Trust Fund" so as to keep her personal records look fairly clean.

Last I heard, everyone that worked at the Clinton Trust Fund was laid off. 

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Big Jim
31 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

The demand that the House sent to the IRS referenced him overstating his net worth to secure a loan.  So bank fraud is what they are investigating: https://thinkprogress.org/trump-implicated-in-fraud-deutsche-bank-michael-cohen-501979c1453d/

My tax returns have always been pathetically simple, so forgive me if I don't know much about a rich person's returns, but I don't recall anything on them about net worth, only income.  So I'm not sure how his tax returns would shed light on a transaction where he allegedly over stated his net worth.  It still seems like it's totally politically motivated and has nothing to do with the integrity of the banking industry.  It would make more sense to investigate all the members of Congress who became millionaires after entering politics rather than one who made his millions in business.

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Gromdor
2 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

My tax returns have always been pathetically simple, so forgive me if I don't know much about a rich person's returns, but I don't recall anything on them about net worth, only income.  So I'm not sure how his tax returns would shed light on a transaction where he allegedly over stated his net worth.  It still seems like it's totally politically motivated and has nothing to do with the integrity of the banking industry.  It would make more sense to investigate all the members of Congress who became millionaires after entering politics rather than one who made his millions in business.

They are subpoenaing more than his tax returns.  They also hit up his business records.  All of this is stemming from Trump's former personal lawyer's (Cohen's) testimony in congress recently.  https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/22/us/politics/trump-sues-congress.html

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Tatetopa

Both the House Financial Services Committee and House Ways and Means Committee could request Trump's tax returns, which the president promised to "absolutely" release in 2014, but has since adamantly refused to do so.

On Wednesday, Trump said he won't turn over his tax returns because they are under audit. He has repeatedly used the excuse in the past, saying that he is not permitted to, which is not accurate. But this time he added a new reason for withholding the returns: No one would understand them — and there are a lot of pages.

Under a law passed in 1924, Congress has the right to inspect tax returns from any taxpayer — including high-ranking officials. While the probable new chairpersons of the Financial Services and Ways and Means committees, Reps. Maxine Walters and Richard Neal, respectively, can subpoena Trump's tax records from the Internal Revenue Service, that doesn't mean Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin will hand them over. If he doesn't, a long court fight could ensue.

"Then they'll be trapped into appealing to the Supreme Court, and we'll see whether or not the Kavanaugh fight was worth it," former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich said last month.

Even if Democrats do get to investigate the president's tax returns, they might not be able to disclose any sensitive information publicly.

www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Democrats-Trump-Pelosi-tax-returns-IRS-13371414.php

Pretty much every source says the same thing.  Several members are in a position to make use of this 1924 law.  As Newt Gingrich commented, the lawyers will probably take it to the Supreme Court.  

Privacy is maintained as someone mentioned by the fact that those committee chairs who get to look at the taxes cannot communicate the results to the public.

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Earl.Of.Trumps

This is really all such a bunch of bullsh!t.

Even if the caught Trump breaking the law, he'll never be convicted in impeachment. Not now. 2.5 years of democrat party deception will never go by without prejudice. 2/3 majority in the Senate...?  nice try dems, ain't happening.

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Tatetopa
1 hour ago, Big Jim said:

The heading says the "IRS fails" but are they failing or following the law?  Surely, protecting tax payers' privacy is one of the mandates of the IRS and I'm assuming they would need a compelling legal reason to release any individual's information.  Since this quest began when Trump was a candidate the returns being sought were filed by a private citizen.  He's not under indictment for anything and he was recently audited by the IRS itself so it seems obvious that this subpoena was issued for purely political purposes.  Providing ammunition for political attacks is not within the duties of the IRS and Congress should face some kind of censure or penalty for trying to force them to do so.

Google the Teapot Dome Scandal, Andrew Mellon, 

When the "committee access" provision, as it's known, became law in 1924, Congress had been dealing with taxpayers' information in the Teapot Dome scandal afflicting the Harding administration and in a controversy involving former Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon. Like Trump, he had served in government while refusing to avoid conflicts of interest by letting go of his holdings.

The committee access provision has rarely been invoked, but here's how it would work:

  1. For the party in control of the House or Senate, making the request is easy. It would come from the chair of the House Ways and Means Committee (the House panel that writes tax law), Senate Finance Committee or Joint Committee on Taxation. Democrats have been badgering the Republican chairs of those panels to act since February 2017 without success.
  2. Once a request is made, no floor action is necessary. The request would go to Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, who oversees the IRS — not to the taxpayer in the Oval Office, who would officially be out of the loop. Yin said the 1924 law "gave the tax committees the unqualified right to request the tax returns of any taxpayer."
  3. What would happen next is uncharted territory. Based on recent events, Trump might deploy Justice Department lawyers, and perhaps private lawyers, to fight the request in court. The process might resemble the not-infrequent legal battles over congressional subpoenas for executive branch documents. But the committee access provision has never been before a federal judge.
  4. Were Congress to get access to Trump's returns, it would be easy for lawmakers to disclose the information, despite various privacy protections that exist for taxpayers. The chair or committee with Trump's tax returns could submit them to the full House or Senate if there's a legitimate legislative purpose. At that point, the returns would very likely quickly become available for the public to see on the Internet.
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Tatetopa
2 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Even if the caught Trump breaking the law, he'll never be convicted in impeachment. Not now. 2.5 years of democrat party deception will never go by without prejudice. 2/3 majority in the Senate...?  nice try dems, ain't happening.

Nope, if impeached, he certainly won't be convicted, not enough votes as you say.   If his lawyers are smart, as I'm sure they are, he didn't falsify his returns.  He said he couldn't release his forms because he is under audit, but that excuse does not seem to be true.  So a little white lie on his part to avoid releasing them.  Somebody starts to wonder.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
10 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Nope, if impeached, he certainly won't be convicted, not enough votes as you say.   If his lawyers are smart, as I'm sure they are, he didn't falsify his returns.  He said he couldn't release his forms because he is under audit, but that excuse does not seem to be true.  So a little white lie on his part to avoid releasing them.  Somebody starts to wonder.

Yes, Tat, once again, all we have is "wonder".  I'll wait until they have substance and then see if they try to do anything about it.  Until then, this is all a snoozer for me  [ignore]  :(

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Hammerclaw
Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Yes, Tat, once again, all we have is "wonder".  I'll wait until they have substance and then see if they try to do anything about it.  Until then, this is all a snoozer for me  [ignore]  :(

Four years of records were held by the Obama IRS. if they had anything on Trump, they'd have used them. I think he's leading them on, jerking their chain, milking the farcical melodrama for all it's political worth. Shattering their great expectations by releasing them in the middle of the election year would be perfect timing, leaving them looking stupid, yet again.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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