The Moon: Relic From Ancient Civilization

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Kenemet said:

It made for terrible sf.  "Space: 1999" was the title.  It was awful.  Really awful.

And I was still crushing on Barbara Bain even though she was as wooden as a white oak

1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

But apart from that it was good. And the Eagle Transporters where GREAT shuttlecraft. I got the Dinky toy version of both the transporter and the fighter !

The Eagle One is around here somewhere. I think it's in the box with the various Enterprises. 

[RoofGardener]

1 minute ago, Piney said:

And I was still crushing on Barbara Bain even though she was as wooden as a white oak

The Eagle One is around here somewhere. I think it's in the box with the various Enterprises. 

They probably get on well together. 

I USED to have a Spectrum Pursuit Vehicle from Captain Scarlet, but I don't know what become of it  

[Piney]

1 minute ago, RoofGardener said:

I USED to have a Spectrum Pursuit Vehicle from Captain Scarlet, but I don't know what become of it  

Captain Scarlet? I was just thinking of him when I was making my post!  I never had his stuff but I was glued to his show. 

A lot of stuff I have here I didn't know I had here. I found a box with some vintage Star Wars stuff a month ago and the Adam West diecast Batmobile.

[Phaeton80]

How very surprising..

The OP is disqualified, the provided sources are disqualified (without even addressing them), and people are falling over eachother to provide the best, funniest snarky response.. trying to belittle the poster with their 'superior scepticism' (making them look intelligent, and the OP a naive chump delving in conspiracy theories - in their minds). Never are specific claims retorted with a factual response, just 'rolling eyes' and other meaningless, disqualifying responses.

Some here seem to have one goal when it comes to topics like these, disqualify and ridicule, instead of actually responding to content in a serious manner (refuting with facts instead of silencing through ad hominems).

Given the apparant superificialness at play here, a disclaimer: I am not defending the veracity of the OP position, I am defending his right to do so without being harassed, ridiculed, bullied.

Youre on a forum called UNEXPLAINED MYSTERIES for godsakes, get a grip, grow the f up.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Phaeton80

[Piney]

20 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

Some here seem to have one goal when it comes to topics like these, disqualify and ridicule, instead of actually responding to content in a serious manner (refuting with facts instead of silencing through ad hominems).

 

I used facts, but a group that says I ****ed up my afterlife by being mixed and hates homosexuals deserves ridicule. 

 

[stereologist]

I watched a show not long about the formation of the Moon and the idea now is that it might not have been a single collision with a Mars sized object that has been tentatively named Thera. The issue is again the distribution of density across the Moon as well as the low density of the moon. A recent proposal is that at an early point in the solar system there might have been several Mars sized planets which collided with each other in indirect hits instead of head on collisions. This would remove less dense material from the Earth to form the Moon.

 

[stereologist]

51 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

How very surprising..

The OP is disqualified, the provided sources are disqualified (without even addressing them), and people are falling over eachother to provide the best, funniest snarky response.. trying to belittle the poster with their 'superior scepticism' (making them look intelligent, and the OP a naive chump delving in conspiracy theories - in their minds). Never are specific claims retorted with a factual response, just 'rolling eyes' and other meaningless, disqualifying responses.

Some here seem to have one goal when it comes to topics like these, disqualify and ridicule, instead of actually responding to content in a serious manner (refuting with facts instead of silencing through ad hominems).

Given the apparant superificialness at play here, a disclaimer: I am not defending the veracity of the OP position, I am defending his right to do so without being harassed, ridiculed, bullied.

Youre on a forum called UNEXPLAINED MYSTERIES for godsakes, get a grip, grow the f up.

Maybe you missed my post that the geological record shows tidal action for over 400My.

Just because someone wants to tell a fairy tale that there was no Moon anytime during the existence of man does not mean we should accept it as an unexplained mystery. It's simply fiction.

Are you here to discuss the merits of the geological evidence or are you here to be a pretend bodyguard?

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

2 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

How very surprising..

The OP is disqualified, the provided sources are disqualified (without even addressing them), and people are falling over eachother to provide the best, funniest snarky response.. trying to belittle the poster with their 'superior scepticism' (making them look intelligent, and the OP a naive chump delving in conspiracy theories - in their minds). Never are specific claims retorted with a factual response, just 'rolling eyes' and other meaningless, disqualifying responses.

Some here seem to have one goal when it comes to topics like these, disqualify and ridicule, instead of actually responding to content in a serious manner (refuting with facts instead of silencing through ad hominems).

Given the apparant superificialness at play here, a disclaimer: I am not defending the veracity of the OP position, I am defending his right to do so without being harassed, ridiculed, bullied.

Youre on a forum called UNEXPLAINED MYSTERIES for godsakes, get a grip, grow the f up.

Things might have been different if the OP actually wanted to answer questions. I asked a few in post #67, so far no response. (Yes the OP have been back in the meantime) 

[Phaeton80]

1 hour ago, stereologist said:

Maybe you missed my post that the geological record shows tidal action for over 400My.

Just because someone wants to tell a fairy tale that there was no Moon anytime during the existence of man does not mean we should accept it as an unexplained mystery. It's simply fiction.

Are you here to discuss the merits of the geological evidence or are you here to be a pretend bodyguard?

Yeah, you know it all dont you. Swell.

I am here to offer my opinion, nothing more. Id certainly wouldnt claim things I couldnt possibly know as evident fact, while at thesame time disqualifying my argumentative opponent's content as a 'fairytale'.

Pretend bodyguard you say, whatever floats your boat mate. Guess thats better than a pretend know it all.

Probably already refuted by all you impressive keyboard experts, showering us dim folk in the blazing illumination of your unrivalled knowledge:

Quote

The period when the Earth was Moonless is probably the most remote recollection of mankind. Democritus and Anaxagoras taught that there was a time when the Earth was without the Moon.⁽¹⁾ Aristotle wrote that Arcadia in Greece, before being inhabited by the Hellenes, had a population of Pelasgians, and that these aborigines occupied the land already before there was a moon in the sky above the Earth; for this reason they were called Proselenes.⁽²⁾

Apollonius of Rhodes mentioned the time “when not all the orbs were yet in the heavens, before the Danai and Deukalion races came into existence, and only the Arcadians lived, of whom it is said that they dwelt on mountains and fed on acorns, before there was a moon.” ⁽³⁾

Plutarch wrote in The Roman Questions: “There were Arcadians of Evander’s following, the so-called pre-Lunar people.”⁽⁴⁾ Similarly wrote Ovid: “The Arcadians are said to have possessed their land before the birth of Jove, and the folk is older than the Moon.” ⁽⁵⁾ Hippolytus refers to a legend that “Arcadia brought forth Pelasgus, of greater antiquity than the moon.”⁽⁶⁾ Lucian in his Astrology says that “the Arcadians affirm in their folly that they are older than the moon.”⁽⁷⁾

Censorinus also alludes to the time in the past when there was no moon in the sky.⁽⁸⁾

Some allusions to the time before there was a Moon may be found also in the Scriptures. In Job 25:5 the grandeur of the Lord who “Makes peace in the heights” is praised and the time is mentioned “before [there was] a moon and it did not shine.” Also in Psalm 72:5 it is said: “Thou wast feared since [the time of] the sun and before [the time of] the moon, a generation of generations.” A “generation of generations” means a very long time. Of course, it is of no use to counter this psalm with the myth of the first chapter of Genesis, a tale brought down from exotic and later sources.

The memory of a world without a moon lives in oral tradition among the Indians. The Indians of the Bogota highlands in the eastern Cordilleras of Colombia relate some of their tribal reminiscences to the time before there was a moon. “In the earliest times, when the moon was not yet in the heavens,” say the tribesmen of Chibchas.⁽⁹⁾

https://varchive.org/itb/sansmoon.htm#f_1

"The dude is using quotes from the Bible.. He probably believes in giants as well!" ..Is the sort of response I am expecting.. and no, that wouldnt be intelligent, becoming, or 'winning'. Rather the exact opposite, imho.

But seriously, I would entertain the possibility of some truth to this.. because I simply do not know. Unless ofcourse, all these historic quotes can be effectively refuted, shown to be false.

[stereologist]

8 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

Yeah, you know it all dont you. Swell.

I am here to offer my opinion, nothing more. Id certainly wouldnt claim things I couldnt possibly know as evident fact, while at thesame time disqualifying my argumentative opponent's content as a 'fairytale'.

Pretend bodyguard you say, whatever floats your boat mate. Guess thats better than a pretend know it all.

Probably already refuted by all you impressive keyboard experts, showering us dim folk in the blazing illumination of your unrivalled knowledge:

"The dude is using quotes from the Bible.. He probably believes in giants as well!" ..Is the sort of response I am expecting.. and no, that wouldnt be intelligent, becoming, or 'winning'. Rather the exact opposite, imho.

But seriously, I would entertain the possibility of some truth to this.. because I simply do not know. Unless ofcourse, all these historic quotes can be effectively refuted, shown to be false.

There you go as the mighty protector of others blustering away as usual. I am so sure that the others need a bodyguard like you.

It is clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Moon existed long before humans existed. The idea of a recent Moon is a fairy tale. This is not the first time this has been proposed. The Moon is a hollow spaceship has been proposed. That too fails. It is also proposed because of supposed anomalies.

I notice you bluster and complain yet have not asked anyone to support their statements. Are you interested in knowing how the geological record supports the long term existence of the Moon or are you here to defend people because that is what you choose to do? You have the choice of learning or whining. You too could learn why the geological record supports the long term existence of the Moon and have as you say "blazing illumination of your unrivalled knowledge". Or you could continue to whine. Your choice.

What we know about historic quotes is that they are not always true. There seems to be some sort of thinking that the ancients only wrote the truth. Not quite sure why people think that way. The ancients were as smart as we are. They just did not have the technology we do today, but they began the long process of learning and understanding that we have today. Future generations will look back at us and wonder about our lack of understandings of what they think are fundamental truths.

So if you are interested it is possible to show you how it is clear that the Moon has been around for at least 400My.

[stereologist]

I'll post how we know this.

http://miguasha.ca/mig-en/a_devonian_day.php

The link is a short read. It tells how the number of days in a year has been increasing and why. It points out that at the Miguasha the number of days in a year was 400. Now it is 365.

Corals show that the number of days in a year has been slowly increasing due to the slow down in the Earth's rotation.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/02/fossilized-coral-calendar-changes-leap-day/471180/

The link above expands on the material mention in the short write up about Miguasha NP in Canada.

The effect we see today of the Moon slowing the Earth has been happening for at least 400My. The effect is a gradual slowing of the Earth's rotation.

 

[cormac mac airt]

There’s really no support for the OPs contention. While it’s been shown that the moons tidal effects on the earth are hundreds of millions of years old at a minimum humans, i.e. members of the genus Homo, only date to circa 2.8 million years BP. Added to that that behaviorally and cranio-morphologically modern humans only date to circa 100,000 BP we were never in a position to know anything definitive about the moon or its origins at the start of our genus. 

cormac

[XenoFish]

On 4/24/2019 at 11:19 PM, EnergyGem said:

The Moon has been seen by many researchers and scientists as rather an anomaly.

Because no other planet has a moon?

[Kenemet]

23 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

But seriously, I would entertain the possibility of some truth to this.. because I simply do not know. Unless ofcourse, all these historic quotes can be effectively refuted, shown to be false.

The "historic quotes" are from Greeks and Hebrews -- both cultures date to only 1100 BC or thereabouts.

Now... consider this:  The Sumerians (whose civilization goes back to 3800 BC) and the Egyptians (ditto) both had moon gods and neither speaks of a moonless time.  The same is true of other cultures and civilizations -- and this is written information.  In fact, the Sumerians had tables tracking the Moon and its phases and position.  Ancient stories speak about tides... so therefore we know about the Moon and its closeness and its impact on the tides.

Beyond human stories of the tides caused by the Moon, we have geological records (I've actually seen this when I prepped out fossils). https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/1996-07/UoA-TRTM-050796.php  This evidence also shows shorter days (and by the way, this ALSO shows up in the changing of the timing of lunar eclipses from the time that the Sumerians were recording these events to present day.

So there's lots of evidence.  And some of it you can even go see for yourself (fossil record)

 

[Daughter of the Nine Moons]

A reminder to all participants to please keep the discussion civil and constructive.

[Phaeton80]

55 minutes ago, stereologist said:

There you go as the mighty protector of others blustering away as usual. I am so sure that the others need a bodyguard like you.

It is clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Moon existed long before humans existed. The idea of a recent Moon is a fairy tale. This is not the first time this has been proposed. The Moon is a hollow spaceship has been proposed. That too fails. It is also proposed because of supposed anomalies.

I notice you bluster and complain yet have not asked anyone to support their statements. Are you interested in knowing how the geological record supports the long term existence of the Moon or are you here to defend people because that is what you choose to do? You have the choice of learning or whining. You too could learn why the geological record supports the long term existence of the Moon and have as you say "blazing illumination of your unrivalled knowledge". Or you could continue to whine. Your choice.

What we know about historic quotes is that they are not always true. There seems to be some sort of thinking that the ancients only wrote the truth. Not quite sure why people think that way. The ancients were as smart as we are. They just did not have the technology we do today, but they began the long process of learning and understanding that we have today. Future generations will look back at us and wonder about our lack of understandings of what they think are fundamental truths.

So if you are interested it is possible to show you how it is clear that the Moon has been around for at least 400My.

Look, no one is acting 'a bodyguard' to anyone. I am voicing my opinion, an opinion against snarkish belittling remarks and general disqualifications without addressing content.

This should be an acceptable opinion for anyone, not for 'stereologist' though; you proceed to paint me as 'a blustering and complaining' child.. Obviously feeling personally addressed / attacked by way of my first post.

Go on, pretend you know the Moon has always been there, pretend you know how long the human race has existed on this planet, and pretend to be some sort of authority on anything while sitting behind your keyboard on a forum called Unexplained Mysteries.

 

 

[danydandan]

1 hour ago, Kenemet said:

The "historic quotes" are from Greeks and Hebrews -- both cultures date to only 1100 BC or thereabouts.

Now... consider this:  The Sumerians (whose civilization goes back to 3800 BC) and the Egyptians (ditto) both had moon gods and neither speaks of a moonless time.  The same is true of other cultures and civilizations -- and this is written information.  In fact, the Sumerians had tables tracking the Moon and its phases and position.  Ancient stories speak about tides... so therefore we know about the Moon and its closeness and its impact on the tides.

Beyond human stories of the tides caused by the Moon, we have geological records (I've actually seen this when I prepped out fossils). https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/1996-07/UoA-TRTM-050796.php  This evidence also shows shorter days (and by the way, this ALSO shows up in the changing of the timing of lunar eclipses from the time that the Sumerians were recording these events to present day.

So there's lots of evidence.  And some of it you can even go see for yourself (fossil record)

 

Also there are ancient Celtic inscriptions depicting the Moon.

Seems to be a world wide phenomena.

Edited April 26, 2019 by danydandan

[stereologist]

5 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

Look, no one is acting 'a bodyguard' to anyone. I am voicing my opinion, an opinion against snarkish belittling remarks and general disqualifications without addressing content.

This should be an acceptable opinion for anyone, not for 'stereologist' though; you proceed to paint me as 'a blustering and complaining' child.. Obviously feeling personally addressed / attacked by way of my first post.

Go on, pretend you know the Moon has always been there, pretend you know how long the human race has existed on this planet, and pretend to be some sort of authority on anything while sitting behind your keyboard on a forum called Unexplained Mysteries.

 

 

Thanks for being the snarky, whiny poster you complain about. You do it every post without fail/

The evidence is overwhelming that the Moon has been there for over 400My. This line of evidence is actually closer to 540My, but what's 10 million years here or there?

Please read the posts carefully. I only pointed out that humans were not around 400Mya. I did not make any claims as to how long humans have existed.

You often mention "on a forum called Unexplained Mysteries". Can you explain that? I am quite clear as to the name of the forum.

[stereologist]

As Kenemet mentioned, the Sumerians not only recorded the movements of the Moon but they also used a lunar calendar.

[+Pettytalk]

19 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

Oh, well: as long as it’s /institutional/ homophobia, that’s all right. 

If all the other Upright Schools of Cultivation jumped off a bridge, would you, too?

—Jaylemurph 

That depends on the height of the bridge, its width, material composition, if there are any protection barriers to prevent people from jumping off, wind speed, if sunny or overcast, precipitation forecast, landing area size and details, such as, is it water, land, and many other factors that I will not mention. One must perform a very thorough field research before considering such a drastic move. Without sufficient and correct data, it could land you in some real trouble.

And you may want to ask Harte just how much is not much on the moon's effect on the trajectory of the earth's yearly trip around the sun. As with BC dates, ask him to show us his calculations for coming up with the figure of, not much. Ask for his mathematical credentials, too. You are still the self-appointed credentials control cop?

 

[jaylemurph]

28 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

That depends on the height of the bridge, its width, material composition, if there are any protection barriers to prevent people from jumping off, wind speed, if sunny or overcast, precipitation forecast, landing area size and details, such as, is it water, land, and many other factors that I will not mention. One must perform a very thorough field research before considering such a drastic move. Without sufficient and correct data, it could land you in some real trouble.

And you may want to ask Harte just how much is not much on the moon's effect on the trajectory of the earth's yearly trip around the sun. As with BC dates, ask him to show us his calculations for coming up with the figure of, not much. Ask for his mathematical credentials, too. You are still the self-appointed credentials control cop?

 

I’m just pleased you’ve volunteered for this little bridge experiment. 

We’ll let you know a time/date/location and (if you’re able) you can let us know the results. 

—Jaylemurph 

[+Pettytalk]

2 hours ago, danydandan said:

Also there are ancient Celtic inscriptions depicting the Moon.

Seems to be a world wide phenomena.

Was it a blue moon? I have my chessboard set on Blue day. And I'm going to be very blue after I see what your next move will be. I always thought the earth flat, but a flat earth without a moon is just too much of a runaround argument for me. By the way, does anyone know how the moon just hangs there with a pedestal, or a string to hold it up. But what puzzles me more is that it's so high, and yet, I see no snow on it, like on our tall mountain peaks, as someone suggested a correlation of snow and high altitude. A conspiracy?

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

@Pettytalk   Watch out for Dan over the chessboard. He's a weapon!  

[danydandan]

2 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

@Pettytalk   Watch out for Dan over the chessboard. He's a weapon!  

That's your fault. I told him so, too.

[Kenemet]

3 hours ago, danydandan said:

Also there are ancient Celtic inscriptions depicting the Moon.

Seems to be a world wide phenomena.

Totally blanked on the Nebra Sky Disc, though that's actually younger (by about 1500 years) than the Sumerian tables and deities and the Egyptian lunar references.