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marsman

The afterlife...true or just comforting?

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marsman

OK....cards on the table...im a skeptic.....i think we die.and thats it...we wont even know it..

but..there are those who HAVE DIED....but have been revived....who then talk of being in heaven...talking to Jesus.....being sent back....as its not their time etc....there are also those who talk of hell....

what do you think?   thousands of stories can be found online......are they JUST stories?

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=is++the+afterlife+true

 

 

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ouija ouija

'The afterlife ...... true or just comforting?'. I don't see the possibility of an afterlife as being comforting. If there is an afterlife, goodness knows what it will be like ... we won't know until we get there.

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marsman
12 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

'The afterlife ...... true or just comforting?'. I don't see the possibility of an afterlife as being comforting. If there is an afterlife, goodness knows what it will be like ... we won't know until we get there.

 

true.......but religion and countless stories say otherwise....

the thing is...twice in my life....and im  over 50.....i have had the very definite feeling....of the presence.....of someone who has died...momentarily....but strongly

but ive never 'felt' my mums presence....who i always thought would...'let me know'....she was there

 

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XenoFish

There's nothing.

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Jodie.Lynne
6 hours ago, marsman said:

but have been revived....who then talk of being in heaven...talking to Jesus.....being sent back....as its not their time etc

So when a body is in dire distress and the brain is in the process of being starved for oxygen and shutting down, we should rely on the accuracies of the mental images seen?

 

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XenoFish
6 hours ago, marsman said:

but..there are those who HAVE DIED....but have been revived....who then talk of being in heaven...talking to Jesus.....being sent back....as its not their time etc....there are also those who talk of hell....

They talk about those things because it's a part of their belief structure and the results of oxygen deprivation and DMT in the brain, the last lucid dream before death. Twice and I got nothing. Just cold.

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Essan

Aye, IMO it's just a dream - and as we know, what seems a long dream can in fact only last seconds.  Whether the dream happens in the last seconds before extinction, or the first seconds after revival would be interesting to know though.  I suspect it's actually the latter.

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XenoFish
3 minutes ago, Essan said:

Aye, IMO it's just a dream - and as we know, what seems a long dream can in fact only last seconds.  Whether the dream happens in the last seconds before extinction, or the first seconds after revival would be interesting to know though.  I suspect it's actually the latter.

I figure death is just the last sleep before the eternal no-thingness.

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ouija ouija
1 hour ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

So when a body is in dire distress and the brain is in the process of being starved for oxygen and shutting down, we should rely on the accuracies of the mental images seen?

 

Why not? If the soul is separating itself from the physical body, perhaps it is that that gives us the image?

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Jodie.Lynne
Just now, ouija ouija said:

Why not? If the soul is separating itself from the physical body, perhaps it is that that gives us the image?

If one were to consider NDE's as valid an factual (meaning proof of an afterlife), then why aren't these visions universal across the board?

Not everyone has these visions, nor do members of other faiths see the same iconography as Christians. 

 

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ouija ouija
1 hour ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

If one were to consider NDE's as valid an factual (meaning proof of an afterlife), then why aren't these visions universal across the board?

Not everyone has these visions, nor do members of other faiths see the same iconography as Christians. 

 

Perhaps there isn't just one afterlife, a bit like the countries of Earth being very different.

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XenoFish

Perhaps the afterlife is just a comforting belief in the face of ultimate uncertainty. 

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Jodie.Lynne
11 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

Perhaps there isn't just one afterlife, a bit like the countries of Earth being very different.

Different afterlives for different faiths kind of suggests different gods, no?

Or are you suggesting one god with different faces?

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pbarosso

heres the deal.

there can never ever be "nothing" because "nothing" isnt real. nothing isnt real because there is "something". you might say that well, nothing is the absence of "something", well that cant be true. "nothing" IS "something". 

if there was ever "nothing" then there would never be "something". 

you cant have both. the fact that we are here and we are experiencing things and cognitively pondering this question is something. whats the point of life is there isnt a continuation of consciousness. you might say that "well,  I wasnt always here, so before me there was nothing, i didnt exist, so i can go back to that state." well, before you existed you didnt have a consciousness but now you do. you are conscious. just because you didnt exist doesnt mean that there was "nothing". from your point of view there might be nothing, in that you did not exist and now you do, BUT thats not "nothing". So along you came and now you are conscious enough to know that you had a "beginning". you see things grow and die and so you ASSUME your conscious will have an END too because the body dies. BUT YOU CANNOT IMAGINE WHAT ITS LIKE TO BE NOTHING. dont even pretend to say that its like when you have surgery and you wake up and there is that lost time. WELL, you woke up didnt you? there is no way to compare that to what you call "nothing". you cant imagine what its like to be nothing so you wont ever be "nothing".

if you could revert to a state of "nothing" then you would never ever have been "something". you would have stayed as "nothing".

 

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ouija ouija
23 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Different afterlives for different faiths kind of suggests different gods, no?

Or are you suggesting one god with different faces?

We can only guess, can't we? Who am I to limit the possibilities?! :lol:

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XenoFish
48 minutes ago, pbarosso said:

if you could revert to a state of "nothing" then you would never ever have been "something". you would have stayed as "nothing".

You turn a light on it glows. Turn that light off and it doesn't. Turn consciousness on and it does something, shut it off and it does nothing. Once the body has melted down to a pool of sludge, whatever made you you is gone. Sure the chemical/biological make up of who you used to be might exist for a limited time, you're not going to be consciously experience anything. Dead is well, dead.

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pbarosso
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You turn a light on it glows. Turn that light off and it doesn't. Turn consciousness on and it does something, shut it off and it does nothing. Once the body has melted down to a pool of sludge, whatever made you you is gone. Sure the chemical/biological make up of who you used to be might exist for a limited time, you're not going to be consciously experience anything. Dead is well, dead.

if nothing was nothing or nothing = dead then you would still be =nothing. you cant experience "nothing".  so what youre saying is that there is "nothing" to observe. and in that case there IS something.

 

also i you turn a light on, the light still exists even though the bulb is turned off.

a star dies, yet its light that it emitted still exists. all of it.

 

 

Edited by pbarosso

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XenoFish
5 minutes ago, pbarosso said:

if nothing was nothing or nothing = dead then you would still be =nothing. you cant experience "nothing".  so what youre saying is that there is "nothing" to observe. and in that case there IS something.

 

also i you turn a light on, the light still exists even though the bulb is turned off.

a star dies, yet its light that it emitted still exists. all of it.

 

 

In other words you want to believe in an afterlife. 

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Rlyeh
11 hours ago, marsman said:

OK....cards on the table...im a skeptic.....i think we die.and thats it...we wont even know it..

but..there are those who HAVE DIED....but have been revived....who then talk of being in heaven...talking to Jesus.....being sent back....as its not their time etc....there are also those who talk of hell....

what do you think?   thousands of stories can be found online......are they JUST stories?

Not only Jesus, your going to find NDEs involve religious characters the person is familiar with.  That to me sounds more like a dream.

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Rlyeh
1 hour ago, pbarosso said:

heres the deal.

there can never ever be "nothing" because "nothing" isnt real. nothing isnt real because there is "something". you might say that well, nothing is the absence of "something", well that cant be true. "nothing" IS "something". 

Fallacy of equivocation.  

Nothing here means you experience nothing, your mind and consciousness is no longer functioning, therefore you experience nothing.

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pbarosso
4 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Fallacy of equivocation.  

Nothing here means you experience nothing, your mind and consciousness is no longer functioning, therefore you experience nothing.

you use the word experience. you have to be conscious to experience anything

 

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Rlyeh
1 minute ago, pbarosso said:

you use the word experience. you have to be conscious to experience anything

 

Hence you experience nothing.  Do you understand English?  If your car is not currently operating then it is doing nothing, correct?

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pbarosso

do YOU understand english? you CANNOT EXPERIENCE nothing. its basic english

 

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pbarosso
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Hence you experience nothing.  Do you understand English?  If your car is not currently operating then it is doing nothing, correct?

wrong your car is doing something. its sitting there. AND btw, it IS doing something actively....it is PUSHING down on the earth lol

 

Edited by pbarosso
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