The afterlife...true or just comforting?

[XenoFish]

19 minutes ago, pbarosso said:

do YOU understand english? you CANNOT EXPERIENCE nothing. its basic english

 

Nothing.  Once you're dead there will be nothing, no experiences, no existence, no consciousness. Just gone forever. What made you who you are will eventually fade to nothingness, forever gone. 

[pbarosso]

Just now, XenoFish said:

Nothing.  Once you're dead there will be nothing, no experiences, no existence, no consciousness. Just gone forever. What made you who you are will eventually fade to nothingness, forever gone. 

impossible

[XenoFish]

Just now, pbarosso said:

impossible

But true. You won't live to tell the tale of your own demise. The only way that you continue to exist is as a memory, but eventually everyone who knew you will parish. Then you will be completely forgotten. Even the famous and historical figures are nothing more than a shade.

[Jodie.Lynne]

3 minutes ago, pbarosso said:

impossible

Interesting belief you have there.

[pbarosso]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

But true. You won't live to tell the tale of your own demise. The only way that you continue to exist is as a memory, but eventually everyone who knew you will parish. Then you will be completely forgotten. Even the famous and historical figures are nothing more than a shade.

but still quite impossible. you cant go to a state of non-existence, that goes for all things. ask a 1st grader (i teach 1st grade) if the sun still exists even though its covered by the clouds, even they know that the sun only blocks its view. by the theory that you have of something non-observable not existing, then anything you dont observe does not exist. just because you dont see it doesnt mean it does not exist

Edited April 27, 2019 by pbarosso

[Rlyeh]

16 minutes ago, pbarosso said:

do YOU understand english? you CANNOT EXPERIENCE nothing. its basic English

You're either trying to be smart or you don't understand sentence structure.

What is a switched off camera recording?  NOTHING.  "not recording" is the same as "recording nothing". 

"Not experiencing" is the same as "experiencing nothing".

[XenoFish]

7 minutes ago, pbarosso said:

but still quite impossible. you cant go to a state of non-existence, that goes for all things. ask a 1st grader (i teach 1st grade) if the sun still exists even though its covered by the clouds, even they know that the sun only blocks its view. by the theory that you have of something non-observable not existing, then anything you dont observe does not exist. just because you dont see it doesnt mean it does not exist

Can you provide evidence for the existence of the soul? 

The idea of a non-existence is a bother to you isn't it? 

Edited April 27, 2019 by XenoFish

[+Pettytalk]

12 hours ago, marsman said:

OK....cards on the table...im a skeptic.....i think we die.and thats it...we wont even know it..

but..there are those who HAVE DIED....but have been revived....who then talk of being in heaven...talking to Jesus.....being sent back....as its not their time etc....there are also those who talk of hell....

what do you think?   thousands of stories can be found online......are they JUST stories?

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=is++the+afterlife+true

 

 

We wont even know it? How do you know that? Anyway, there could be billions of stories out there to be found, as you say, but nothing can be found that is better nor more accurate than this one account on the afterlife. Just don't take everything literally, though.It's the essence that counts. Ten times, it seems, in general.

The Myth of Er. In Plato's Republic dialogue.  http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/republic.11.x.html

I'm just going to post part of it, and the rest can be viewed in the above link, if anyone is interested.

Certainly, he said, what you say is true.
These, then, are the prizes and rewards and gifts which are bestowed upon the just by gods and men in this present life, in addition to the other good things which justice of herself provides.

Yes, he said; and they are fair and lasting.
And yet, I said, all these are as nothing, either in number or greatness in comparison with those other recompenses which await both just and unjust after death. And you ought to hear them, and then both just and unjust will have received from us a full payment of the debt which the argument owes to them.

Speak, he said; there are few things which I would more gladly hear.

Well, I said, I will tell you a tale; not one of the tales which Odysseus tells to the hero Alcinous, yet this too is a tale of a hero, Er the son of Armenius, a Pamphylian by birth. He was slain in battle, and ten days afterwards, when the bodies of the dead were taken up already in a state of corruption, his body was found unaffected by decay, and carried away home to be buried. And on the twelfth day, as he was lying on the funeral pile, he returned to life and told them what he had seen in the other world. He said that when his soul left the body he went on a journey with a great company, and that they came to a mysterious place at which there were two openings in the earth; they were near together, and over against them were two other openings in the heaven above. In the intermediate space there were judges seated, who commanded the just, after they had given judgment on them and had bound their sentences in front of them, to ascend by the heavenly way on the right hand; and in like manner the unjust were bidden by them to descend by the lower way on the left hand; these also bore the symbols of their deeds, but fastened on their backs. He drew near, and they told him that he was to be the messenger who would carry the report of the other world to men, and they bade him hear and see all that was to be heard and seen in that place. Then he beheld and saw on one side the souls departing at either opening of heaven and earth when sentence had been given on them; and at the two other openings other souls, some ascending out of the earth dusty and worn with travel, some descending out of heaven clean and bright. And arriving ever and anon they seemed to have come from a long journey, and they went forth with gladness into the meadow, where they encamped as at a festival; and those who knew one another embraced and conversed, the souls which came from earth curiously enquiring about the things above, and the souls which came from heaven about the things beneath. And they told one another of what had happened by the way, those from below weeping and sorrowing at the remembrance of the things which they had endured and seen in their journey beneath the earth (now the journey lasted a thousand years), while those from above were describing heavenly delights and visions of inconceivable beauty. The Story, Glaucon, would take too long to tell; but the sum was this: --He said that for every wrong which they had done to any one they suffered tenfold; or once in a hundred years --such being reckoned to be the length of man's life, and the penalty being thus paid ten times in a thousand years. If, for example, there were any who had been the cause of many deaths, or had betrayed or enslaved cities or armies, or been guilty of any other evil behaviour, for each and all of their offences they received punishment ten times over, and the rewards of beneficence and justice and holiness were in the same proportion. I need hardly repeat what he said concerning young children dying almost as soon as they were born. Of piety and impiety to gods and parents, and of murderers, there were retributions other and greater far which he described. He mentioned that he was present when one of the spirits asked another, 'Where is Ardiaeus the Great?' (Now this Ardiaeus lived a thousand years before the time of Er: he had been the tyrant of some city of Pamphylia, and had murdered his aged father and his elder brother, and was said to have committed many other abominable crimes.) The answer of the other spirit was: 'He comes not hither and will never come. And this,' said he, 'was one of the dreadful sights which we ourselves witnessed. We were at the mouth of the cavern, and, having completed all our experiences, were about to reascend, when of a sudden Ardiaeus appeared and several others, most of whom were tyrants; and there were also besides the tyrants private individuals who had been great criminals: they were just, as they fancied, about to return into the upper world, but the mouth, instead of admitting them, gave a roar, whenever any of these incurable sinners or some one who had not been sufficiently punished tried to ascend; and then wild men of fiery aspect, who were standing by and heard the sound, seized and carried them off; and Ardiaeus and others they bound head and foot and hand, and threw them down and flayed them with scourges, and dragged them along the road at the side, carding them on thorns like wool, and declaring to the passers-by what were their crimes, and that they were being taken away to be cast into hell.' And of all the many terrors which they had endured, he said that there was none like the terror which each of them felt at that moment, lest they should hear the voice; and when there was silence, one by one they ascended with exceeding joy. These, said Er, were the penalties and retributions, and there were blessings as great........

 

[spartan max2]

1 hour ago, pbarosso said:

if nothing was nothing or nothing = dead then you would still be =nothing. you cant experience "nothing".  so what youre saying is that there is "nothing" to observe. and in that case there IS something.

 

also i you turn a light on, the light still exists even though the bulb is turned off.

a star dies, yet its light that it emitted still exists. all of it.

 

 

I think you're conflating "nonething" and us expierencing things.

Yes matter is neither created or destroyed so it just changes states. Making it so that there is never "nonething".

But us being able to expierence is a different story. Is someone is deaf they can not expierence sound. 

It makes no difference what happens to our atoms when we won't have the mind to expierence anything. 

[Rlyeh]

7 minutes ago, pbarosso said:

but still quite impossible. you cant go to a state of non-existence, that goes for all things. ask a 1st grader (i teach 1st grade) if the sun still exists even though its covered by the clouds, even they know that the sun only blocks its view. by the theory that you have of something non-observable not existing, then anything you dont observe does not exist. just because you dont see it doesnt mean it does not exist

Did your computer exist a million years ago?  It's substance did but not the computer.  So the answer is NO, it did not exist.

I get the feeling you're deliberately misinterpreting what's being said.

[pbarosso]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Can you provide evidence for the existence of the soul? 

The idea of a non-existence is a bother to you isn't it? 

nope. i dont need to. its for you to decide. does the idea of a continuing-existence bother you?

[XenoFish]

Just now, pbarosso said:

nope. i dont need to. its for you to decide. does the idea of a continuing-existence bother you?

I don't care either way. To be honest, if an afterlife does indeed exist, then this life is absolutely meaningless. Same goes towards the concept of reincarnation. Which would make every life you'd live utterly pointless. 

[pbarosso]

Just now, spartan max2 said:

I think you're conflating "nonething" and us expierencing things.

Yes matter is neither created or destroyed so it just changes states. Making it so that there is never "nonething".

But us being able to expierence is a different story. Is someone is deaf they can not expierence sound. 

It makes no difference what happens to our atoms when we won't have the mind to expierence anything. 

deaf people do experience sound, they can feel it.  

explain not having a mind.

[marsman]

5 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

We wont even know it? How do you know that? Anyway, there could be billions of stories out there to be found, as you say, but nothing can be found that is better nor more accurate than this one account on the afterlife. Just don't take everything literally, though.It's the essence that counts. Ten times, it seems, in general.

The Myth of Er. In Plato's Republic dialogue.  http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/republic.11.x.html

I'm just going to post part of it, and the rest can be viewed in the above link, if anyone is interested.

...

 

 

didnt Plato use paragraph breaks?  

[XenoFish]

Just now, pbarosso said:

explain not having a mind.

Being dead.

[spartan max2]

4 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

If one were to consider NDE's as valid an factual (meaning proof of an afterlife), then why aren't these visions universal across the board?

Not everyone has these visions, nor do members of other faiths see the same iconography as Christians. 

 

Actually I would argue one of the strongest points about NDEs Is that they are pretty consistent. People normally see "beings of light". People from all faiths 

I use to read tons of NDE stories and follow it alot. 

Every once in a while someone does see like Jesus or Mohammad though. It's just rare. 

[pbarosso]

Just now, XenoFish said:

I don't care either way. To be honest, if an afterlife does indeed exist, then this life is absolutely meaningless. Same goes towards the concept of reincarnation. Which would make every life you'd live utterly pointless. 

thats interesting. how would an afterlife existing make life meaningless? what if its like school. what if its like entertainment? what IF WE are part of some civilization thats to far advanced that they created a  matrix existence and this is nothing but a simulation, because those advanced people are so bored they need new experiences? who knows.

 

[pbarosso]

2 minutes ago, marsman said:

 

didnt Plato use paragraph breaks?  

i think plato used a chisel and marble. he took lots of breaks lol

 

[Jodie.Lynne]

2 minutes ago, pbarosso said:

does the idea of a continuing-existence bother you?

no, but it is highly unlikely.

And I am getting the strong sense that you are just arguing for the sake of argument.

If, as you state, your consciousness continues after the death of the physical body, then where was your consciousness before you were conceived? In the egg? The sperm? Split between the two?

[XenoFish]

Just now, pbarosso said:

thats interesting. how would an afterlife existing make life meaningless? what if its like school. what if its like entertainment? what IF WE are part of some civilization thats to far advanced that they created a  matrix existence and this is nothing but a simulation, because those advanced people are so bored they need new experiences? who knows.

 

Once every form of stimulation is exhausted, there would be nothing to do or experience. 

[XenoFish]

According to some religions about 99.9999999999% of us are going to hell. 

[spartan max2]

5 minutes ago, pbarosso said:

deaf people do experience sound, they can feel it.  

explain not having a mind.

Like if you have no nerve endings you can't feel pain. No eyes you can't see. 

Not having a mind, a brain, you can't have seintience 

[pbarosso]

Just now, Jodie.Lynne said:

no, but it is highly unlikely.

And I am getting the strong sense that you are just arguing for the sake of argument.

If, as you state, your consciousness continues after the death of the physical body, then where was your consciousness before you were conceived? In the egg? The sperm? Split between the two?

i never argue for sake of arguing. its interesting.

perhaps there is a higher mechanism involved that we dont see in which consciousness is a product of the egg and sperm. hell we dont know A lot of what there is to know. to argue that there is no life after death is an easy argument. it ends as soon as the statement is made. the other argument that life does exist, is a much more nuanced argument. neither of course can be proved. 

 

[pbarosso]

1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

Like if you have no nerve endings you can't feel pain. No eyes you can't see. 

Not having a mind, a brain, you can't have seintience 

but people do see without their eyes. as in the case of NDEs for example. tons of people see whats happening to them from a third person POV. then they go on to some tunnel or other. i find that fascinating. how do they see whats going on?

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by pbarosso

[Rlyeh]

Just now, pbarosso said:

but people do see without their eyes. as in the case of NDEs for example.

People dream without eyes too.