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10 years of Trump's Tax Returns Leak

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RoofGardener

Just out of curiosity.. is it legal to publish the tax returns of a private individual ? 

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Uncle Sam
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Just out of curiosity.. is it legal to publish the tax returns of a private individual ? 

It is illegal and it is a felony, not to mention it violates the right to privacy.

26 U.S. Code § 6103. Confidentiality and disclosure of returns and return information

Edited by Uncle Sam
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F3SS
5 hours ago, Doug1o29 said:

Relax, everybody -

The House subpoenaed Trump's tax returns and has now issued a contempt citation against the Attorney General.

Doesn't really matter what Trump or the Attorney General do.  There are dozens of accounting firms, legal offices and others who have copies of Trump's tax returns.  They don't want to by cited for Contempt of Congress, so as soon as they see a subpoena, they'll come running, tax returns in hand, to tell everything they know.

We're going to see Trump's tax returns whether he likes it or not and whether we ask him or not.

Doug

Uncle Sam just said it. Congress can't just get something like that because they asked. Their had to be a reason. They'll have to do something illegal and shady to obtain them and TBH I'm surprised someone didn't do it in 2016. On the flip side, I'm thinking someone definitely got their hands on his returns but there was no there there so no point in leaking them.

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and then
19 hours ago, Big Jim said:

If the IRS doesn't have a problem with his tax returns there's no reason anyone else should.

They just want more innuendo ammo.  Screw them.

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Big Jim
6 hours ago, Doug1o29 said:

We're going to see Trump's tax returns whether he likes it or not and whether we ask him or not.

And it won't make one bit of difference.

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Merc14

Stick to tree rings doug

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Tatetopa
5 hours ago, susieice said:

I hear what you're saying but you need to remember also, Trump came out of Wall Street which is very aggressive in it's trading and dealing. It's just the environment he's been in.

I totally agree with that.  It was Wall Street and not Main Street that caused the housing crisis and market dive, it is Wall Street leveraging and taking shaky bets that put the US banking system in jeopardy, big firms to fail and taxpayers to foot the bailout cost.   Wall Street works and some get very rich but the money comes from the people on the other side of the bets.  It is not a good way to run a country.   It is not a good resume or CV accomplishment to brag about.    Professor Trump is brilliant and great at what he did, self promotion and imagery.  It doesn't get infrastructure rebuilt or middle class jobs from evaporating.

 

5 hours ago, Merc14 said:

What matters is how he handles te US economy and so far he has done a maginificent job, especially considering the disastrous handling of the economy over the previous 8. 

I think he is weaker on economy than on foreign policy.  I do not agree that he has done a magnificent job, and in reality  if you care to look at numbers the economy has been on an upward trend since the end of the recession.  There are a lot of things to dislike about Obama  but the economy has been on a growth curve since 2010.  Yes President Trump  has kept it going, and the rate of growth is good.  He has done well, but I challenge you to raise your bar for magnificent.   The tax cut may have been an additional spur, but it is pushing the deficit up for our children and grandchildren to pay, and this in a time of great prosperity.   Likely the economy would have continued to grow at a sustainable rate without it.  Better than a corporate tax rate cut would have been tax incentives for corporations to hire, train, expand, buy new equipment, invest in R&D and new technology.   Give rewards for behavior you want to enforce not for doing nothing.  Same for the middle class, a tax incentive for increased  IRA investment  would have put more money in the economy for a longer term, and maybe prepared individuals better for when the SS system needs to cut benefits.

Balance of trade is also not going in our favor.  A strong dollar makes our goods and services more expensive for foreign businesses to buy and our prosperity entices consumers to buy more imports even with tariffs.  All of the bluff and bluster and trade war talk has not put a dent in the trade deficit.  It is going the wrong way.  That was not a surprise or unpredictable, it is how economies work.  A BBC article with charts below  makes this post over long. Sorry for that.  Just looking at the Dow Jones does not tell the whole story.   Unemployment and labor force participation are wins for the Prez. that don't show up in the DJA.  A good job, not a magnificent one.

 

Donald Trump and the US economy in six charts

By Daniele PalumboData journalist

Donald Trump took his place in the White House exactly one year ago. Since then he has repeatedly claimed to be behind a new rise in the American economy. Here, six charts explore his relationship with US growth, the labour market and trade.

1. The American economy is growing

Donald Trump has spoken of his desire to turbo-charge the US economy to a growth rate of as high as 6%.

The latest figures, released by the US Department of Commerce in December, show that it grew at an annual rate of 3.2% in the third quarter of 2017.

US economic growth

However, after the US central bank, the Federal Reserve, raised interest rates for the third time in 2017 in December, it is possible growth will slow in the coming months.

2. US stocks have had a record run

The Dow Jones Industrial Average - which follows the shares of 30 major US companies - has risen to record highs throughout the past year in a run that stretches back to August 2016, just before Mr Trump's election.

Dow Jones Industrial Average

Other US stock markets, including the Standard & Poor's 500 index and the Nasdaq index, have also reached historical highs.

 
ADVERTISEMENT

Mr Trump's supporters argue that his corporation tax cuts, passed shortly before Christmas, helped to boost US shares, along with his US-centric policies, his clampdown on bureaucracy and his promises of infrastructure investment.

3. Unemployment is falling

US unemployment is falling - down to 4.1% in December - and is close to its lowest-ever recorded level of 3.9% in 2001.

It is less than half the 10% peak of 2010, reached after the global financial crisis.

Chart showing the dropping US unemployment rate

However, this downward trend began during President Barack Obama's time in office. When Mr Obama left the White House, unemployment was 4.8%.

4. Wages remain relatively flat

Despite other positive economic indicators, US wage levels have flattened since Mr Trump took office.

Wage growth has stayed between 2.5% and 2.9% without showing any meaningful rise in the last 12 months.

Chart showing how US wages have remained almost flat

Economists are, in fact, struggling to understand why low unemployment hasn't led to an increase in wages.

However, the general forecast for 2018 is that wages will rise if unemployment continues to fall.

5. Workers yet to return to the jobs market

One possible explanation for stagnant wages is that the number of workers who left the US workforce following the 2007-2009 recession was higher than first thought.

The labour force participation rate refers to the number of people who are either employed or are actively looking for work.

US labour force participation

Following the global economic crash, the labour force participation rate in the US fell dramatically and now stands at 63%. It has remained stable since Mr Trump was elected.

6. The trade deficit is rising

President Trump has made improving US trade a priority of his administration.

However, the country's trade deficit - when imports are higher than exports - has actually risen to a level not seen since 2008.

Chart showing the the increasing US trade deficit

Part of the explanation for the deficit could be that the continued growth of the US economy, and an increase in consumer confidence, have led to an increase in the goods bought by US shoppers from overseas.

However, the negative trade balance could put increasing pressure on the Trump administration, with the country now out of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade deal and amid renegotiation of the North American Free Trade Agreement (Nafta).

Produced and written by Daniele Palumbo.

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Merc14
1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

I totally agree with that.  It was Wall Street and not Main Street that caused the housing crisis and market dive, it is Wall Street leveraging and taking shaky bets that put the US banking system in jeopardy, big firms to fail and taxpayers to foot the bailout cost.   Wall Street works and some get very rich but the money comes from the people on the other side of the bets.  It is not a good way to run a country.   It is not a good resume or CV accomplishment to brag about.    Professor Trump is brilliant and great at what he did, self promotion and imagery.  It doesn't get infrastructure rebuilt or middle class jobs from evaporating.

 

I think he is weaker on economy than on foreign policy.  I do not agree that he has done a magnificent job, and in reality  if you care to look at numbers the economy has been on an upward trend since the end of the recession.  There are a lot of things to dislike about Obama  but the economy has been on a growth curve since 2010.  Yes President Trump  has kept it going, and the rate of growth is good.  He has done well, but I challenge you to raise your bar for magnificent.   The tax cut may have been an additional spur, but it is pushing the deficit up for our children and grandchildren to pay, and this in a time of great prosperity.   Likely the economy would have continued to grow at a sustainable rate without it.  Better than a corporate tax rate cut would have been tax incentives for corporations to hire, train, expand, buy new equipment, invest in R&D and new technology.   Give rewards for behavior you want to enforce not for doing nothing.  Same for the middle class, a tax incentive for increased  IRA investment  would have put more money in the economy for a longer term, and maybe prepared individuals better for when the SS system needs to cut benefits.

Balance of trade is also not going in our favor.  A strong dollar makes our goods and services more expensive for foreign businesses to buy and our prosperity entices consumers to buy more imports even with tariffs.  All of the bluff and bluster and trade war talk has not put a dent in the trade deficit.  It is going the wrong way.  That was not a surprise or unpredictable, it is how economies work.  A BBC article with charts below  makes this post over long. Sorry for that.  Just looking at the Dow Jones does not tell the whole story.   Unemployment and labor force participation are wins for the Prez. that don't show up in the DJA.  A good job, not a magnificent one.

 

Obama is thee first president in US history to never have a single GDP above 3% in 8 years.   He doubled all the debt accrued by all previous presidents, combined, with zero to show for it (unions were happy though).  He was the first president in US history to ever see the US credit rating drop from AAA to AA.   Yeah, he was a financial genius.  Please don't dump that BS on me it is complete garbage, the up turn started when Trump won the election and took off when he started reversing Obama's destructive fiscal policies and regulations.  He was, by every single measure, the worst president in history, bar none.  Economics, foreign policy and societal peace was worst ever and anyone stupid enough to suggest he jump started the economy after 8 years of destruction is either lying to me or themselves or delusional

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Doc Socks Junior

Yeah 2008 was just a banner year to take over the economy.  Dang Obama and his machinations for the previous 8 years.  So subtle how he trashed the economy before taking office.

Thanks, Obama. 

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Merc14
5 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

Yeah 2008 was just a banner year to take over the economy.  Dang Obama and his machinations for the previous 8 years.  So subtle how he trashed the economy before taking office.

Thanks, Obama. 

Look up Barney Frank and mortgages and then post back again when you understand what sank the economy

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joc
On 5/8/2019 at 3:49 AM, ExpandMyMind said:

I think the Russian money pouring in came later.

The main takeaway from this for me is that, in a time where Trump was painting himself as super successful, he actually accounted for 1% of all losses in the country. He was literally the biggest loser in the US.

And also that point 4 seems to be highly illegal.

Wow, and all that when he wrote Art of the Deal....Oh wait, my bad, I was thinking of that other book...Art of the Comeback...yeah, NYT forgot to tell you about that one didn't they?   Geeeezzzz.....when will they ever learn?????

Trump: The Art of the Comeback

 

Oh, and for those who actually do branch away from reading the NYT with, hmmm, maybe...POLITICO?....


There Are No Trump Mysteries

 

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Doc Socks Junior
3 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

Look up Barney Frank and mortgages and then post back again when you understand what sank the economy

Was it Obama?

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Merc14
20 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

Was it Obama?

If you had done the research you would know it wasn't.  You obviously do not want to see anything that goes against your beliefs, like a slave under the Soviets and see no reason to debate since you already lost!  Why debate when you haven't a clue?  Go to work, come back when you understand what happened or be a progressive slave and listen to your masters.   I am betting the latter so see ya

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Doc Socks Junior
12 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

If you had done the research you would know it wasn't.  You obviously do not want to see anything that goes against your beliefs, like a slave under the Soviets and see no reason to debate since you already lost!  Why debate when you haven't a clue?  Go to work, come back when you understand what happened or be a progressive slave and listen to your masters.   I am betting the latter so see ya

I'm sorry, chief. You're pretty far gone.

I bring up that Obama took over an economy heading into the trash, and suddenly I'm a progressive slave.  Get a grip.  Your fanaticism is peeking out from behind a thin articulate veneer.

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Tatetopa
3 hours ago, Merc14 said:

Yeah, he was a financial genius.  Please don't dump that BS on me it is complete garbage, the up turn started when Trump won the election and took off when he started reversing Obama's destructive fiscal policies and regulations. 

Never said he was, never believed he was either.  I guess I need to look up the the debt and how we are doing since president Trump took office.  I'll find that one you have a valid point.  However, if the recovery started with President Trump, you would expect to see an in flexion point at 2016.  Foreign policy and societal peace are a couple of reasons to dislike  Obama.  That is separate from the economy.

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Tatetopa

OK Merc14, national debt:  Do you read financial articles as well as political ones?    This is not a negative piece on Trump or fake news.  It is where we are.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-national-debt-tops-22-trillion-for-first-time-in-history/

The U.S. national debt has topped $22 trillion for the first time in history, according to daily figures released by the Treasury Department on Tuesday.

The debt has ballooned by more than $2 trillion in the two years since President Trump took office in January 2017, when the debt stood at $19.9 trillion. It surpassed $21 trillion for the first time in history in March 2018.

Under the Obama administration, the national debt grew from $10.6 trillion to $19.9 trillion, an increase that drew sharps criticism from Republicans.

But the ratio of debt-to-GDP has also increased, something that's unusual in a strong economy. In June 2018, the Congressional Budget Office said in a report that the level of debt as a share of GDP had reached its highest levels since World War II. 

Michael Peterson, CEO of the Peter G. Peterson Foundation, a fiscal policy think tank, said Tuesday's milestone is only "the latest sign that our fiscal situation is not only unsustainable, but accelerating." 

So in 8 years Obama ran the debt up by about 1 trillion a year.  Low and behold, in two years the Trump administration has increased the debt by 2 trillion dollars.  That figures out to be about a trillion dollars a year too, right on par with Obama. If Michael Peterson is right, and I believe with our staggering debt he is, then as he says, the situation is not only unsustainable but accelerating.  That does not sound like a magnificent job.   Blame the debt on Obama if you like, but President Trump has not reversed direction.  

Image result for us national debt by year

 

 

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RoofGardener
9 hours ago, Uncle Sam said:

It is illegal and it is a felony, not to mention it violates the right to privacy.

26 U.S. Code § 6103. Confidentiality and disclosure of returns and return information

But.. then.. I don't understand, @Uncle Sam. Why isn't the New York Times being prosecuted ? 

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Gromdor
4 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

But.. then.. I don't understand, @Uncle Sam. Why isn't the New York Times being prosecuted ? 

Heh, read the whole thing.  The funny part is when you get to who is legally able to access tax returns towards the bottom...

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RoofGardener
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Heh, read the whole thing.  The funny part is when you get to who is legally able to access tax returns towards the bottom...

LOL.. just read it. Are you referring to section (g), wherein the President can demand the tax returns of any named individual ? 

THAT could be fun :D 

Nevertheless, surely the NYT journalists are guilty of breaking the law ? 

Edited by RoofGardener
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Gromdor
5 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

OK Merc14, national debt:  Do you read financial articles as well as political ones?    This is not a negative piece on Trump or fake news.  It is where we are.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-national-debt-tops-22-trillion-for-first-time-in-history/

The U.S. national debt has topped $22 trillion for the first time in history, according to daily figures released by the Treasury Department on Tuesday.

The debt has ballooned by more than $2 trillion in the two years since President Trump took office in January 2017, when the debt stood at $19.9 trillion. It surpassed $21 trillion for the first time in history in March 2018.

Under the Obama administration, the national debt grew from $10.6 trillion to $19.9 trillion, an increase that drew sharps criticism from Republicans.

But the ratio of debt-to-GDP has also increased, something that's unusual in a strong economy. In June 2018, the Congressional Budget Office said in a report that the level of debt as a share of GDP had reached its highest levels since World War II. 

Michael Peterson, CEO of the Peter G. Peterson Foundation, a fiscal policy think tank, said Tuesday's milestone is only "the latest sign that our fiscal situation is not only unsustainable, but accelerating." 

So in 8 years Obama ran the debt up by about 1 trillion a year.  Low and behold, in two years the Trump administration has increased the debt by 2 trillion dollars.  That figures out to be about a trillion dollars a year too, right on par with Obama. If Michael Peterson is right, and I believe with our staggering debt he is, then as he says, the situation is not only unsustainable but accelerating.  That does not sound like a magnificent job.   Blame the debt on Obama if you like, but President Trump has not reversed direction.  

Image result for us national debt by year

 

 

Yeah, that's what has me scratching my head.  When times are good, most people pay off their credit card debt.  Trump has us cutting back on our card payments (Tax cut/deficit spending) and has us spending as much if not more as Obama did when he was borrowing to stimulate the economy.

  That tells me that he is just over stimulating the economy just to make one number (the GDP) go up while neglecting other aspects (the deficit, etc.)  I'll give him points for trying to balance the trade deficit, but it seems his efforts are just making it worse. 

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Gromdor
Just now, RoofGardener said:

LOL.. just read it. Are you referring to section (g), wherein the President can demand the tax returns of any named individual ? 

THAT could be fun :D 

Nah, From Section N or something like that where it was okay for anyone who needed to test a machine or store it on wards.  It seems there is an legal exception for everyone and their brother to see it.

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Merc14
8 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

OK Merc14, national debt:  Do you read financial articles as well as political ones?    This is not a negative piece on Trump or fake news.  It is where we are.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-national-debt-tops-22-trillion-for-first-time-in-history/

The U.S. national debt has topped $22 trillion for the first time in history, according to daily figures released by the Treasury Department on Tuesday.

The debt has ballooned by more than $2 trillion in the two years since President Trump took office in January 2017, when the debt stood at $19.9 trillion. It surpassed $21 trillion for the first time in history in March 2018.

Under the Obama administration, the national debt grew from $10.6 trillion to $19.9 trillion, an increase that drew sharps criticism from Republicans.

But the ratio of debt-to-GDP has also increased, something that's unusual in a strong economy. In June 2018, the Congressional Budget Office said in a report that the level of debt as a share of GDP had reached its highest levels since World War II. 

Michael Peterson, CEO of the Peter G. Peterson Foundation, a fiscal policy think tank, said Tuesday's milestone is only "the latest sign that our fiscal situation is not only unsustainable, but accelerating." 

So in 8 years Obama ran the debt up by about 1 trillion a year.  Low and behold, in two years the Trump administration has increased the debt by 2 trillion dollars.  That figures out to be about a trillion dollars a year too, right on par with Obama. If Michael Peterson is right, and I believe with our staggering debt he is, then as he says, the situation is not only unsustainable but accelerating.  That does not sound like a magnificent job.   Blame the debt on Obama if you like, but President Trump has not reversed direction.  

Image result for us national debt by year

 

 

I agree , the debt is going up too fast.  The economy is larger under Trump but the flexion point is there when we finally started 3%+ GDP under Trump.

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Jerry Gallo
7 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

OK Merc14, national debt:  Do you read financial articles as well as political ones?    This is not a negative piece on Trump or fake news.  It is where we are.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-national-debt-tops-22-trillion-for-first-time-in-history/

The U.S. national debt has topped $22 trillion for the first time in history, according to daily figures released by the Treasury Department on Tuesday.

The debt has ballooned by more than $2 trillion in the two years since President Trump took office in January 2017, when the debt stood at $19.9 trillion. It surpassed $21 trillion for the first time in history in March 2018.

Under the Obama administration, the national debt grew from $10.6 trillion to $19.9 trillion, an increase that drew sharps criticism from Republicans.

But the ratio of debt-to-GDP has also increased, something that's unusual in a strong economy. In June 2018, the Congressional Budget Office said in a report that the level of debt as a share of GDP had reached its highest levels since World War II. 

Michael Peterson, CEO of the Peter G. Peterson Foundation, a fiscal policy think tank, said Tuesday's milestone is only "the latest sign that our fiscal situation is not only unsustainable, but accelerating." 

So in 8 years Obama ran the debt up by about 1 trillion a year.  Low and behold, in two years the Trump administration has increased the debt by 2 trillion dollars.  That figures out to be about a trillion dollars a year too, right on par with Obama. If Michael Peterson is right, and I believe with our staggering debt he is, then as he says, the situation is not only unsustainable but accelerating.  That does not sound like a magnificent job.   Blame the debt on Obama if you like, but President Trump has not reversed direction.  

Image result for us national debt by year

 

 

 

Looking at per capita debt the last six years, Obama's last four years in office averaged $2526.78 increase in per capita debt per year. Trump's two so far averaged $2560. So, no, Trump hasn't been some magical elixir. But, for him to be only 1.3% higher than Obama after a tax cut does show that he has had a positive impact on slowing the trend of debt growth through two years. Mind you, it isn't enough, it'll never be enough, and it likely won't continue.

Neither side plays very fair on the debt discussion when placing blame or giving credit. This is one of those deals where they are politicians, equally complicit and equally apathetic.

I find it best to look at trends of per capita spending as a percentage based on prior year (my own math, not some biased pundit) and honestly, both sides deserve credit and blame since 1990. It's been really volatile the last five years with a couple oddities in 1999 and 2015. Otherwise the trends seem very organic with both sides deserving some credit they'll never get from the other side, and some blame that some will never let go. 

 

 

 

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Doug1029
15 hours ago, Big Jim said:

And it won't make one bit of difference.

That may be, but we won't know until we see them.

Doug

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Doug1029
15 hours ago, Merc14 said:

Stick to tree rings doug

And climate change.  Don't forget climate change.

Doug

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