Admiration.

[danydandan 11,727]

Simple Topic, 

Simple Question.

What do you admire about the other side of the spectrum of your belief?

So Atheists what do you admire about Theistism, and Theists what do you admire about Atheism?

I'd consider myself Agnostic, I admire the conviction of some Theists have about their beliefs.

[Jodie.Lynne 8,022]

Are we talking about the "-ism", or it's adherents?

I suppose that I find it admirable that theism can provide some form of comfort to the believers. And if it helps people to be better humans, that's a good thing too.

[RabidMongoose 2,994]

6 hours ago, danydandan said:

Simple Topic, 

Simple Question.

What do you admire about the other side of the spectrum of your belief?

So Atheists what do you admire about Theistism, and Theists what do you admire about Atheism?

I'd consider myself Agnostic, I admire the conviction of some Theists have about their beliefs.

I admire an atheists ability to filter out everything that doesnt fit their world view.

It makes for some interesting debates.

[Jodie.Lynne 8,022]

21 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

I admire an atheists ability to filter out everything that doesnt fit their world view.

It makes for some interesting debates.

And it starts already....

[Clarakore 3,432]

i admire the theist ability to stand by their man,,,

i admire the skeptics ability to walk that ring of fire....

i admire the agnostics ability to see the many clearer than most,,,

i admire the woo woo-ers ability to be fun and fancy free even in flaming contests...

i admire the walkerists ability to argue eloquently while knowing he understands and respects via careful word for word, idea for idea, discourse, seeing clearly the one who choses to challenge him alone, for his focus is laser like to any presented views

i admire the nonwalkerists ability to say come on dude that is just not real no matter how well researched by your methods we want some kind of consensus please join or die for allah.....wait they do not say die for allah,,,sorry...they are more like we love ya but yaaaaa sometimes,,,,which means most of the time

Edited May 11 by Clarakore

[Essan 5,071]

I admire those theists who keep their religious beliefs to themselves, and who respect the fact that others may, quite rightly, hold different beliefs.

[Essan 5,071]

I admire fellow atheists who do likewise  

[Impedancer 2,085]

We are Nihilist and we believe in nothing, nothing :-p

[Essan 5,071]

56 minutes ago, Impedancer said:

We are Nihilist and we believe in nothing, nothing :-p

Are you sure you really believe that?   

[Pettytalk 560]

3 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Are we talking about the "-ism", or it's adherents?

I suppose that I find it admirable that theism can provide some form of comfort to the believers. And if it helps people to be better humans, that's a good thing too.

What is your definition of a "better human"? For instance, is it better to turn the other cheek, or just to slap the other back? Or for a better instance, what standard are you using to determine what makes us better? And what is the source of your standard? 

[Pettytalk 560]

To the question posed by the OP, I would say that admiration is something close to adoration. And we must admire anyone that makes us believers understand better the object of our adoration. Be theists, agnostics, atheists, nihilists, or even if it be bathroom philosophers! 

 

[RabidMongoose 2,994]

27 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

What is your definition of a "better human"? For instance, is it better to turn the other cheek, or just to slap the other back? Or for a better instance, what standard are you using to determine what makes us better? And what is the source of your standard? 

If you have an challenging a-hole to deal with then being nasty back just makes it worse.

Then you have to deal with an angry a-hole. Its far better to disengage from them and be indifferent and uninterested in their attempts to create high octane situations.

If you want to get your own back interact with them as much as humanly possible but make it a totally boring experience. Trust me.

[danydandan 11,727]

Didn't take long to drift off topic. Wow.

[Liquid Gardens 7,634]

If you look at the good things I think there's quite a bit to admire about theism.  The big religions seem to elevate treating people well and making sacrifices to help other people who need it.  Its emphasis on love and transcending the material I think can be very healthy, and puts a lot of the more mundane anxiety of being human and dealing with life and keeping up with the Kardashians in a more appropriately distanced and contained perspective.  I think at some level a lot of people's framework of the world and how they see themselves fitting in it involves a somewhat mythological story we tell ourselves about ourselves anyway, accuracy of this story be damned, so the theistic framework is as good as any, maybe even better.

It's the inspiration it generates that I most admire though.  The miracles and afterlife and literal salvation and all the flavors of spirit entities I think is fine and makes for some compelling symbolism but is just too fantasy-sounding and cartoony to have much appeal for me.  The works of art that theism has inspired on the other hand are incredible, as moving as any art can be, and part of that is the subject matter and how the stories that are part of theism have such resonance with us.  I don't think the intellectual, rational part of theism is that deep; it leads to lots of cool and complicated philosophical subjects that we loop through here regularly, but if you just scratch the surface of theism alone there's not much underneath in this department, there's a lot of 'because the book says so' and mere 'truth to me'.  However if you look at the human behavior and psychology-side of what theism speaks to and what it means if it was true it's very deep.  There's so much emotional content, it can help you catch your bearings in what can be a confusing reality, and overlaps with ideas that seem innate (and therefore esoteric, mysterious, and compelling) in our conscious, and or un- or sub-; I may be wrong but maybe this is similar to what Jung was referring to with his archetypes? 

Sure there's all the bad crap of what is inspired by theism, but I'm not sure that's all on theism anyway.  There are almost no things that don't have a bad side, the problem with theism is its extreme potency.  When it comes to how bad outcomes correlate to how many theistic ideas someone is going to accept and take to heart, the dosage seems to make the poison.  Regardless even as a pretty much atheist, I can't say that viewing and living my life as if there is a God wouldn't be a good way to live and wouldn't provide an appealing color to life.  To some extent, I think I already do that.

 

Edited May 11 by Liquid Gardens

[Pettytalk 560]

3 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

If you have an challenging a-hole to deal with then being nasty back just makes it worse.

Then you have to deal with an angry a-hole. Its far better to disengage from them and be indifferent and uninterested in their attempts to create high octane situations.

If you want to get your own back interact with them as much as humanly possible but make it a totally boring experience. Trust me.

I trust very little, as I was in the business of assuring most of my life, and not in the business of trusting, generally. I trust you are being something of a hole yourself. I believe the thread to be put forth by someone that I trust is attempting to bring both sides together, and seek the best of both worlds. No one thing is totally bad, nor totally good, as it's always something in-between. It's a thread I believe will bind most of the opposites on this very important subject, if not the most important. Because good and evil is not necessarily isolated to religions, as we can easily substitute the term with right and wrong, and then apply them to just about anything that can be humanly done. 

I was wanting to bring out the discussion that much of what is considered becoming better humans, has not the evolution mandated of selfishness in it, nor the seeking of destroying the weaker so that only the fittest and strongest/smartest self may survive. If we all come to realize that human behavior was, and has been, shaped by the thousands of years of various religious beliefs, we can see much common ground. On many points, when it comes to us becoming "better humans", it's very difficult to distinguish the atheists/agnostics from the faithful/spiritualists. For 99% of the population, we are all striving to be better humans, rather than the becoming the most powerful, as is true for only the 1% of the population, generally speaking. But what distinguishes a better human from a normal human, or a sub human? When we say to someone, "you are not human", just what do we all understand that to mean, regardless of whether we are or are not believers?  To be a better human, perhaps we mean to take Nietzsche's definition of being superhuman? Or are we "all too human?"

For God's sake, what is it to be human? If religion was invented by man, were we humans prior to the invention? Perhaps being human is really being a better adapted ape. Or is the invention what made us into human beings, a peculiar specie with such grand ideas of ourselves, as always thinking we are better than others, in one way or another?

[sci-nerd 2,608]

14 hours ago, danydandan said:

So Atheists what do you admire about Theistism

I admire their honesty and willingness to help people who everybody else frowns upon. Like addicts and convicts.

When the scum of the Earth hits rock bottom, they have nowhere to turn, except to the God-people. I admire that. They give people a chance they often don't deserve.

When that is said, I despise religious people who are dishonest. It's like: You had one job!

[freetoroam 30,654]

5 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

What is your definition of a "better human"? For instance, is it better to turn the other cheek, or just to slap the other back? Or for a better instance, what standard are you using to determine what makes us better? And what is the source of your standard? 

IMO it certainly is not religion.

Man should be able to use his own judgement and instincts.

Turning the other cheek has got nothing to do with religion. Just as slapping back has nothing to do with not being religious. 

 

[lightly 5,320]

I admire theists faith....in something better than our individual selves.  I tire of egotistical know it alls.

[Horta 2,297]

I find I can admire theists who are nice people despite their beliefs, rather than because of them.

Though I don't care so much if beliefs make people comfortable, I care more if they're right.

Not looking good so far...

[psyche101 29,444]

On 5/11/2019 at 3:48 PM, danydandan said:

Simple Topic, 

Simple Question.

What do you admire about the other side of the spectrum of your belief?

So Atheists what do you admire about Theistism, and Theists what do you admire about Atheism?

I'd consider myself Agnostic, I admire the conviction of some Theists have about their beliefs.

 

I admire theist inspiration to do missionary work - modern kind, building wells, providing food and such 

I admire the respect and preservation of tradition 

I admire the community groups and support, from tea gatherings after church to caring for the terminally ill and disabled. 

[XenoFish 73,322]

On 5/11/2019 at 1:48 AM, danydandan said:

What do you admire about the other side of the spectrum of your belief?

Nothing. I admire nothing. Regardless of where people fall on the atheist-theist spectrum of beliefs, I admire none of it. I'd rather admire the quality of their character regardless of their beliefs.

[Pettytalk 560]

5 hours ago, Horta said:

Not looking good so far...

What do you mean by that?

[danydandan 11,727]

25 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Nothing. I admire nothing. Regardless of where people fall on the atheist-theist spectrum of beliefs, I admire none of it. I'd rather admire the quality of their character regardless of their beliefs.

Very nicely put. Probably the only true response I was hoping to see.

[XenoFish 73,322]

5 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Very nicely put. Probably the only true response I was hoping to see.

Atheist-agnostic-theist. Doesn't matter. Anyone can hold any of those view points and can be a great person or complete scum. We tend to overlook character a lot.

[Pettytalk 560]

42 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Very nicely put. Probably the only true response I was hoping to see.

That has been said many times and in many ways. Unfortunately the many do not see it that way. The many tend to be polarized by like, to then stereotype the unlike. And this is the prevailing sight of the many not just for this thread's theme, but for everything under the sun. But the writing is on the walls. Love is the only true response to everything and everyone, if we are to be "better" humans, and not mere better apes.

 

Edited May 12 by Pettytalk
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