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danydandan

Admiration.

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Horta
9 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

What do you mean by that?

Seems obvious enough, doesn't it?

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Horta
9 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Nothing. I admire nothing. Regardless of where people fall on the atheist-theist spectrum of beliefs, I admire none of it. I'd rather admire the quality of their character regardless of their beliefs.

I agree such viewpoints aren't generally admirable in themselves. Still, I often find plenty to dislike in religious viewpoints and the people who hold them. Even those who have been canonised.

Such as the weird old lady who stressed to the poor and uneducated in certain parts of the world that it was preferable to bring people into the world with AIDS and let it run rampant, than use contraception. Also the notion that suffering itself is a noble enterprise, and that jesus loves you for it. Amongst whatever good she might have done, she seemed a delusional old fool with a suffering fetish IMO. Not sure the idea of following the latest incarnation of jesus to "the next level" via the aliens on Hale Bop was a very good idea either. There are plenty of instances of similar.

I find quotes such as below worthy of being despised and possibly driven by insanity.

Quote

“Suffering is nothing by itself. But suffering shared with the passion of Christ is a wonderful gift, the most beautiful gift, a token of love.”

Mother Theresa.

 

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, Horta said:

I agree such viewpoints aren't generally admirable in themselves. Still, I often find plenty to dislike in religious viewpoints and the people who hold them. Even those who have been canonised.

Such as the weird old lady who stressed to the poor and uneducated in certain parts of the world that it was preferable to bring people into the world with AIDS and let it run rampant, than use contraception. Also the notion that suffering itself is a noble enterprise, and that jesus loves you for it. Amongst whatever good she might have done, she seemed a delusional old fool with a suffering fetish IMO. Not sure the idea of following the latest incarnation of jesus to "the next level" via the aliens on Hale Bop was a very good idea either. There are plenty of instances of similar.

I find quotes such as below worthy of being despised and possibly driven by insanity.

 

When you really look at it, it's a people problem. And people will find whatever will allow them to justify their actions. 

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Horta
21 minutes ago, Horta said:

Not sure the idea of following the latest incarnation of jesus to "the next level" via the aliens on Hale Bop was a very good idea either. There are plenty of instances of similar.

That should have been the aliens behind Hale Bopp. Apparently they were in their space ship trailing it.

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Horta
20 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

When you really look at it, it's a people problem. And people will find whatever will allow them to justify their actions. 

I find definite instances where religious belief itself is causal.

The whole idea that belief in a religious myth can make you a better person is one I find strange and doubtful. If you need the threat of eternal torment, or gaining favour with some proposed deity, then there is something inherently wrong. Nice people would have been that way regardless of religion IMO. That's why I say I can often admire religious people despite their belief, rather than because of it.

Though I don't doubt that religion can make people more charitable. Then again, it's very sad to see any country rely on religious caritas rather than implement policy to look after their less fortunate. Any nation that cant provide the basics for all of its citizens, no matter how successful financially or militarily, is a social failure as a society IMO. The facts do seem to back that.

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Pettytalk
10 minutes ago, Horta said:

I find definite instances where religious belief itself is causal.

The whole idea that belief in a religious myth can make you a better person is one I find strange and doubtful. If you need the threat of eternal torment, or gaining favour with some proposed deity, then there is something inherently wrong. Nice people would have been that way regardless of religion IMO. That's why I say I can often admire religious people despite their belief, rather than because of it.

Though I don't doubt that religion can make people more charitable. Then again, it's very sad to see any country rely on religious caritas rather than implement policy to look after their less fortunate. Any nation that cant provide the basics for all of its citizens, no matter how successful financially or militarily, is a social failure as a society IMO. The facts do seem to back that.

It was obvious alright! And which nation shall we blame for not providing you with the basic needs? For instance, a heart. But you may be lacking a basic brain too.

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Horta
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

It was obvious alright! And which nation shall we blame for not providing you with the basic needs? For instance, a heart. But you may be lacking a basic brain too.

Guess I'll have to seek the wizard of oz then.

ps. apart from an emotional ad hominem, do you have anything intelligent and relevant to the topic that might further discussion?

Edited by Horta
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Horta
10 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

Love is the only true response to everything and everyone, if we are to be "better" humans, and not mere better apes.

You seem to know lots about "love". Could you define it precisely and (hopefully) succinctly?

No, that's not a trick question.

< I don't really believe that part of my sig, in fact it's a religious quote I find hilarious for its stupidity. Intellectual apes is exactly what we are.

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, danydandan said:

Very nicely put. Probably the only true response I was hoping to see.

I don’t admire following something so literally that it creates conflict or harm and muffles a persons ability to know the difference. I like when people err on the side of compassion and the bigger picture, even if it means letting go of their beliefs. This is admirable to me. 

Xenofish comes to mind.

I am inspired by the theist who has the balls to challenge scripture, to challenge their beliefs and to think for themselves and refine their position and be humbled when appropriate. I dig the theist whose conviction for their beliefs includes putting theirs on the chopping block too, whatever the outcome. 

Guyver is one such poster. 

My pal Hammer Claw is a given on this one too. 

I admire the Atheist who calls bull sh it when they see it, who says there is a better way and advocates for it. I love the courage conviction  and boundary setting of the Atheist. IMHO Most atheists are advocates for a better way. 

Psyche comes to mind. 

So does Liquid Gardens 

I am humbled by the maturity, grace and wisdom of the Agnostic who gets that saying “I don’t know” encompasses a lot of  perspectives, It is always about the bigger picture. 

Eight bits and my friend MklSgl are such posters.

Kenny Rogers’ says it the best...

[The Agnostic]

[‘knows] when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run
You never count your money
When you're sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the dealin's done
 
Every gambler knows
That the secret to survivin'
Is knowin' what to throw away
And knowin' what to keep
'Cause every hand's a winner
And every hand's a loser
And the best that you can hope for is to die
in your sleep”
Edited by Sherapy
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freetoroam
17 hours ago, psyche101 said:

 

I admire theist inspiration to do missionary work - modern kind, building wells, providing food and such 

I admire the respect and preservation of tradition 

I admire the community groups and support, from tea gatherings after church to caring for the terminally ill and disabled. 

This can be done without religion and is.

Abuse has been reported and is quite a scandal with some of the religious 'carers', we even had Oxford in the scandal line up.

Not saying they are all at it, but it certainly means that their beliefs do not stop them.

Helping others is not just a religuous thing and i  think it is better if everyone helps each other and puts their religious beliefs aside when they do.

A belief in a god does not make a person kinder, history has shown us that and we are still seeing it today. And anyone who uses their belief as an excuse to harm others is the low of the lows.

In todays modern world I admire anyone who genuine helps others, as long as they keep their religion to themselves.

 

 

 

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psyche101
8 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

This can be done without religion and is.

Abuse has been reported and is quite a scandal with some of the religious 'carers', we even had Oxford in the scandal line up.

Not saying they are all at it, but it certainly means that their beliefs do not stop them.

Helping others is not just a religuous thing and i  think it is better if everyone helps each other and puts their religious beliefs aside when they do.

A belief in a god does not make a person kinder, history has shown us that and we are still seeing it today. And anyone who uses their belief as an excuse to harm others is the low of the lows.

In todays modern world I admire anyone who genuine helps others, as long as they keep their religion to themselves.

While that's all true, there are good people inspired specifically by religion to carry out these acts of kindness. I've seen some pretty rough characters who turned to religion and have been inspired by it to become a valuable part of the community. In some cases, religion provides therapy that can't always be afforded by normal means. A belief in God seems to make most whacker if anything, but there are many quiet achievers who do well in the name of their chosen God and I admire them for doing good rather than bashing their beliefs. It's refreshing to see the supposed good from religion actually doing good.

Indeed Secular groups have a great impact too and I admire the selflessness of those people very much. 

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psyche101

I'd find religion very respectable if it could admit to the God BS and just do good for the sake of it. Even if in the name of God to recognise roots, but the God idea is well overdue for retirement. 

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freetoroam
4 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

While that's all true, there are good people inspired specifically by religion to carry out these acts of kindness. I've seen some pretty rough characters who turned to religion and have been inspired by it to become a valuable part of the community. In some cases, religion provides therapy that can't always be afforded by normal means. A belief in God seems to make most whacker if anything, but there are many quiet achievers who do well in the name of their chosen God and I admire them for doing good rather than bashing their beliefs. It's refreshing to see the supposed good from religion actually doing good.

Indeed Secular groups have a great impact too and I admire the selflessness of those people very much. 

My mums godmother was a nun and she did a lot if missionary work, she was a very kind lady. She had given her life to her god and beliefs. I admired her for the person she was which was  a very kind, brave and caring person anyway. 

Would she have been a nun in our modern day and age?  But she still would have been a kind and caring person and would still have helped others without religion. 

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freetoroam
7 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I'd find religion very respectable if it could admit to the God BS and just do good for the sake of it. Even if in the name of God to recognise roots, but the God idea is well overdue for retirement. 

I agree, it is overdue for retirement. The crutches are not holding him up like they used to.

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psyche101
2 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

My mums godmother was a nun and she did a lot if missionary work, she was a very kind lady. She had given her life to her god and beliefs. I admired her for the person she was which was  a very kind, brave and caring person anyway. 

Would she have been a nun in our modern day and age?  But she still would have been a kind and caring person and would still have helped others without religion. 

I have a good friend who grew up in the wrong side of the tracks, but turned to religion and its been a good moral compass for him. In some cases, I have to admit, it helps. I think he might not be here today if he hadnt walked that path. I can admire religion helping people, but don't admire the crazy people who make it about God rather than good. I think they have lost what religion is supposed to be. That's why I think it could survive respectably if the religious leaders went honest and ditched the god BS and left it as a charity organisation doing good for the sake of doing good. Even if the recognise jesus as the first do gooder rather than a divine being who's dad is an ahole. Religion has hijacked man's best qualities, it would be nice to see us take them back without coercion of being smitten by a supposed loving creator, or a deal for an afterlife. That strikes me as what religion should not be about, but is. God appeals to ego and fear, that's why that but should be dropped. Especially so in this day and age. 

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Rlyeh
On ‎11‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 9:35 PM, RabidMongoose said:

I admire an atheists ability to filter out everything that doesnt fit their world view.

It makes for some interesting debates.

Especially when you're talking about your hallucinations.

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Piney
2 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I'd find religion very respectable if it could admit to the God BS and just do good for the sake of it. Even if in the name of God to recognise roots, but the God idea is well overdue for retirement. 

"You do not act proper and do the right thing because of the promise of Heaven or the threat of Hell. You act proper and do the right thing because it's the right thing to do. Punishment and reward is a philosophy for horses and house pets. Not for human beings."

Emma Peaslee Engle, Quaker theologian 

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Rlyeh
4 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I'd find religion very respectable if it could admit to the God BS and just do good for the sake of it. Even if in the name of God to recognise roots, but the God idea is well overdue for retirement. 

Apparently there are so called Atheistic "Christians" who reject God as imaginary, yet follow the Bible because they believe it's mostly beneficial.

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Pettytalk
11 hours ago, Horta said:

Guess I'll have to seek the wizard of oz then.

ps. apart from an emotional ad hominem, do you have anything intelligent and relevant to the topic that might further discussion?

The wizard of oz cannot help you. Perhaps not even God, although he can! You have taken his name in vain all too often, ad hominem.

As far as advancing the discussion, it would advance if you go back to the jungle like any "good" intelligent ape would. Happy swinging......ad hominem back to you.

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Pettytalk
11 hours ago, Horta said:

You seem to know lots about "love". Could you define it precisely and (hopefully) succinctly?

Love is admonishing the worse to make it better, succinctly! Hey Jude!

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Hammerclaw
ad·mire
[ədˈmī(ə)r]
VERB
admires (third person present) · admired (past tense) · admired (past participle) · admiring (present participle)
  1. regard (an object, quality, or person) with respect or warm approval.
    "I admire your courage"
    synonyms:
    applaud · praise · express admiration for · commend · approve of · express approval for · favor · look on with favor · think highly of · appreciate · respect · rate highly · hold in high regard · hold in high esteem · look up to · acclaim · compliment · speak highly of · put on a pedestal · worship · adore · love · cherish · dote on · be enamored of · be infatuated with · be taken with · be attracted to · find attractive · idolize · lionize · carry a torch for · be mad about · be crazy about · be potty about · be wild about · have a crush on · have a thing about · have a pash on · have the hots for · be soft on · take a shine to · fancy
    antonyms:
    disapprove of · loathe
    • look at with pleasure.
      "we were just admiring your garden"
    • In regards to this word, I can't find an application to the topic in question I am comfortable with. Respect comes closest, but that is for particular individuals and their right of self expression.
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danydandan
39 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Doesn't work. You still see'em quoted.

That's a pretty frustrating thing ain't it?

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Hammerclaw
Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, danydandan said:

That's a pretty frustrating thing ain't it?

Tends to stymie the knee-jerk reaction to ignore. Some people in either camp post cringeworthy stuff where they are rude, vulgar, insulting--overtly offensive. Christianity is forever damned for historical and contemporary excesses. Atheism is damned for it's own historical atrocities when wielded by such as the Pol Pot regime that slaughtered millions in the late twentieth century. Of course, everyone makes excuses and piously protest that it wasn't really the religion or the atheism at fault.   Good luck selling that to the disaffected. 

Edited by Hammerclaw
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XenoFish
11 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Tends to stymie the knee-jerk reaction to ignore. Some people in either camp post cringeworthy stuff where they are rude, vulgar, insulting--overtly offensive. Christianity is forever damned for historical and contemporary excesses. Atheism is damned for it's own historical atrocities when wielded by such as the Pol Pot regime that slaughtered millions in the late twentieth century. Of course, everyone makes excuses and piously protest that it wasn't really the religion or the atheism at fault.   Good luck selling that to the disaffected. 

How very pessimistic of you.:tu:

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Hammerclaw
Just now, XenoFish said:

How very pessimistic of you.:tu:

You know the old saw; a pessimist is what an optimist calls a realist.

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