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Turkish airline pilot films UFO during flight

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stereologist
On 5/14/2019 at 4:19 AM, Captain Risky said:

Yes mate I can't understand either why they go outta their way to prove something isn't real when governments and individuals have radar and eyewitness evidence to prove otherwise. I mean who am i gonna believe... Stereo, ChrLzs, Bats, Tim or the U.S. Navy and Airforce? 

Fallacy: False dichotomy

http://www.philosophy-index.com/logic/fallacies/false-dilemma.php

Quote

A false dichotomy or false dilemma occurs when an argument presents two options and ignores, either purposefully or out of ignorance, other alternatives.

In this case there is also the likely false claim that radar and eyewitness evidence proves something.

It is also a likely false claim that the U.S. Navy and Air Force have made any statements providing an alternate position.

Dealing with many levels of fallacy and illogical constructs in this post.

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the13bats
2 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Nothing supports that conclusion though. From archeology to DNA. 

THECONFESSIONALS1.JPG.jpg.07914aa5ae40fbe479c02cca4ae9915c.jpg

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Earl.Of.Trumps
3 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Nothing supports that conclusion though. From archeology to DNA. 

Oh, I agree. I was speculating.   That's actually legal here at UM  lol   :rolleyes:

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psyche101
7 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Oh, I agree. I was speculating.   That's actually legal here at UM  lol   :rolleyes:

OK, sure, but what even supports the speculation as a point of discussion? Why would one consider that as a speculative option? It's more along the lines of creative writing I would have thought. I can discuss the idea with you, but why do you think that might be the case? 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

OK, sure, but what even supports the speculation as a point of discussion? Why would one consider that as a speculative option? It's more along the lines of creative writing I would have thought. I can discuss the idea with you, but why do you think that might be the case? 

Fair question. UFO sightings go back to when history was written on a cave wall.  But also, if our galaxy experiences two supernovas per 100 years, then we have had some 240 million super novas  in this galaxy, some of which destroyed planets that housed intelligent beings. Where would the survivors go? to a planet that supports life, of course.

speculative? sure, but why not? It's not far fetched if you think about it. Of course yourself and many in these boards will have a hard time considering that planets with intelligent beings exist in the milky way but I consider it an unproven fact. (is there such a thing?)

Anyway, that's my story and....

 

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stereologist

I don't believe that there are any UFO sightings recorded in pictographs or petroglyphs. The artwork should be taken within its context. We've other dubious claims such as the Palenqua tree of life being a spaceship. We'e even seen Medieval art claimed to be UFOs when we know for a fact what those images represent.

Not sure where this 240 million supernova comes from. That rate of supernova is a current rate, not a long term rate. We know this rate from studies such as this:

https://www.skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-news/milky-way-supernova-rate-confirmed/

Quote

The group concedes that their inferred rate of about two supernovae (give or take one) per century assumes that the supernova rate has held steady over the past few million years, and that astronomers have a solid understanding of how many high-mass stars (which produce the supernovae in question) form relative to low-mass stars. Type Ia supernovae, which are produced by exploding white dwarfs, are not included in the count, but these are much rarer events.

Furthermore, civilizations are unlikely to exist around stars that go supernova because those stars are massive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova

 

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the13bats

EoT i hear you up to the point that you are selling aliens are living here, its not that easy to stay hidden that long, this isnt a movie like the abyss.

and we have zero evidence of your theory.

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psyche101
1 hour ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Fair question. UFO sightings go back to when history was written on a cave wall.  But also, if our galaxy experiences two supernovas per 100 years, then we have had some 240 million super novas  in this galaxy, some of which destroyed planets that housed intelligent beings. Where would the survivors go? to a planet that supports life, of course.

Many UFOs are resolved with earthly explanations. Why would other planetary species be a likely option?

We are aong way from anywhere. Have you considered the distance between our planet and said supa novas? Even at light speed you are looking at thousands of years travel. And if an entire species was in peril, they would be in somthing like the Independence day mothers up, not tiny discs, which don't lend themselves to long distance travel, as the size would not be large enough for fuel and only carries a handful of occupants at best. 

And as I mentioned earlier, DNA and the fossil record do not support an interbreeding idea. 

Quote

speculative? sure, but why not? It's not far fetched if you think about it.

Its not far fetched that some species might face extinction but it is far fatched to dismiss the above factors. 

Quote

Of course yourself and many in these boards will have a hard time considering that planets with intelligent beings exist in the milky way but I consider it an unproven fact. (is there such a thing?)

Anyway, that's my story and....

 

You say this often, but I don't know where you're getting this from. I haven't seen posters claiming that life on other planets is impossible or even unlikely. Aliens on or visiting earth is an unlikely proposition because there are major hurdles to overcome. Crossing space is nothing at allike crossing an ocean. 

Edited by psyche101
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stereologist

Here is an article describing the danger zone from a supernova. It is 50 light years. Suppose a civilization like our were in that danger zone, then you need to  move at least 50 light years away from that star just to survive.

https://www.businessinsider.com/distance-supernova-can-destroy-planet-2017-5

This article explores being in the unsafe distance.

https://earthsky.org/astronomy-essentials/supernove-distance

 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
8 hours ago, the13bats said:

EoT i hear you up to the point that you are selling aliens are living here, its not that easy to stay hidden that long, this isnt a movie like the abyss.

and we have zero evidence of your theory.

I never insisted you had to believe it. I was asked a question and I gave my opinion. that's all

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Earl.Of.Trumps
7 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Many UFOs are resolved with earthly explanations. Why would other planetary species be a likely option?

I'm interested in the ones that are NOT earthly explanations, like the disk UFO viewed by one million residents of Los Angeles as the US Army fired 1,400 antiaircraft shots at it.

7 hours ago, psyche101 said:

We are aong way from anywhere. Have you considered the distance between our planet and said supa novas? Even at light speed you are looking at thousands of years travel. And if an entire species was in peril, they would be in somthing like the Independence day mothers up, not tiny discs, which don't lend themselves to long distance travel, as the size would not be large enough for fuel and only carries a handful of occupants at best. 

The distance will not be such a problem to advanced beings. I'm sure they have learned to harness worm hole technology or perhaps something else. The small disk UFOs we see may be more like shuttle crafts that are housed aboard a mother ship. I am confident there are answers, of course, only because I *know* UFOs to exist

7 hours ago, psyche101 said:

And as I mentioned earlier, DNA and the fossil record do not support an interbreeding idea. 

Never been a part of that notion - interbreeding

7 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Its not far fetched that some species might face extinction but it is far fatched to dismiss the above factors. 

You say this often, but I don't know where you're getting this from. I haven't seen posters claiming that life on other planets is impossible or even unlikely. Aliens on or visiting earth is an unlikely proposition because there are major hurdles to overcome. Crossing space is nothing at allike crossing an ocean. 

Major hurdles to *us*, not to an advanced civilization. Humans have been around 200,000 years or so. We are embryos!  What do you think beings that have been in existence for 8 billion years can do?

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Earl.Of.Trumps
7 hours ago, stereologist said:

Here is an article describing the danger zone from a supernova. It is 50 light years. Suppose a civilization like our were in that danger zone, then you need to  move at least 50 light years away from that star just to survive.

So? you do what you have to do.  Or don't you believe that advanced beings can find a way to travel many light years in short order?  (Einstein's worm holes)

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Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps
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psyche101
23 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I'm interested in the ones that are NOT earthly explanations, like the disk UFO viewed by one million residents of Los Angeles as the US Army fired 1,400 antiaircraft shots at it.

There are very earthly explanations for the Los Angeles incident. There are threads discussing that incident here at UM. Thete is no connection between that incident and space. Its a huge leap as well as illogical to default to an extraordinary explanation in that instance. 

23 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

The distance will not be such a problem to advanced beings. I'm sure they have learned to harness worm hole technology or perhaps something else.

But making stuff up doesn't help with serious investigation of such claims. Unless there is a truly viable option outside of Sci Fi, it's pointless to speculate random ideas. 

23 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

The small disk UFOs we see may be more like shuttle crafts that are housed aboard a mother ship.

And yet no mothers ups have ever been sighted. More importantly of all the UFOs tracked, and there are many, not a single one has ever been confirmed as coming from space or leaving the earth's atmosphere. 

You severely underestimate the amateur community. They have informed NASA of space incidents on more than one occasion. The amateur community answers to nobody and is not controlled by any authority. 

23 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I am confident there are answers, of course, only because I *know* UFOs to exist

You don't know they ate alien spaceships though, that's a huge leap that you have personally taken. 

23 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Never been a part of that notion - interbreeding

You recently said you speculate that aliens have been here for a long time living amongst us. If so, how would you discount that option? 

23 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Major hurdles to *us*, not to an advanced civilization.

There's nothing at all to say mu g faster than light travel is possible, and that is what would be required to support visitation ideas. 

23 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Humans have been around 200,000 years or so. We are embryos!  What do you think beings that have been in existence for 8 billion years can do?

They still have to abide by the same physics. You're assuming that nothing short of miraculous breakthroughs are not only possible but likely. Wormholes are not viable travel options as far as we know, and light speed would not cut the mustard. Physics is not something we control, but something we observe. Everybody in the universe is stuck with them. We sure have much to learn, but that doesn't mean what we do know is wrong. That is in fact highly unlikely. And what we do know prohibits interstellar travel due to distance. 

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psyche101
40 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

So? you do what you have to do.  Or don't you believe that advanced beings can find a way to travel many light years in short order?  (Einstein's worm holes)

 

There is nothing that indicates a wormhole can be used for travel. If they do work as the theory indicates, and if exotic matter exists that could hold them open for more than a fraction of a second, they would be only good for communication. They are quite small in nature, nothing like what Sci Fi utilises l, that's a Hollywood wormhole, not a real one. 

You do realise that to direct a wormhole that you have to set up both ends don't you? How would aliens cross space in the first instance to set up this end, not to mention the energy signature which would be massive and lighting up every radio telescope on the planet. Which of course has never happened. 

The best possible option our species has ever discovered is the WOW! signal, and even that provides so little information that even it is in serious doubt. 

Wormholes are a fun thought, and great in Sci Fi. In the real world they are not quite as friendly or spectacular. 

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stereologist
42 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

So? you do what you have to do.  Or don't you believe that advanced beings can find a way to travel many light years in short order?  (Einstein's worm holes)

 

The issue is that your use of the supernova has many problems:

  1. You assume that the rate of supernova has been constant over time, at least 12By. The Milky Way galaxy has been around for 12.7By. 
  2. You assumed that civilizations would be near one of these massive stars. Unlikely. Massive stars are unlikely to be places where life exists.
  3. The devastated area is approximately 50 light years in radius.

Escaping a supernova is an unlikely option. Posting hypothetical solutions that may not exist does not support your original claim.

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Minimalists
1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

There are very earthly explanations for the Los Angeles incident. There are threads discussing that incident here at UM. Thete is no connection between that incident and space. Its a huge leap as well as illogical to default to an extraordinary explanation in that instance. 

But making stuff up doesn't help with serious investigation of such claims. Unless there is a truly viable option outside of Sci Fi, it's pointless to speculate random ideas. 

And yet no mothers ups have ever been sighted. More importantly of all the UFOs tracked, and there are many, not a single one has ever been confirmed as coming from space or leaving the earth's atmosphere. 

You severely underestimate the amateur community. They have informed NASA of space incidents on more than one occasion. The amateur community answers to nobody and is not controlled by any authority. 

You don't know they ate alien spaceships though, that's a huge leap that you have personally taken. 

You recently said you speculate that aliens have been here for a long time living amongst us. If so, how would you discount that option? 

There's nothing at all to say mu g faster than light travel is possible, and that is what would be required to support visitation ideas. 

They still have to abide by the same physics. You're assuming that nothing short of miraculous breakthroughs are not only possible but likely. Wormholes are not viable travel options as far as we know, and light speed would not cut the mustard. Physics is not something we control, but something we observe. Everybody in the universe is stuck with them. We sure have much to learn, but that doesn't mean what we do know is wrong. That is in fact highly unlikely. And what we do know prohibits interstellar travel due to distance. 

That an UFO sightings are higher among the general public than they are for amateur astronomers...At least according to my man Neil Degrasse Tyson.

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Timothy
On 5/15/2019 at 11:34 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Timothy...  I'll talk  s l o w e r....   your - "It doesn’t disappear at incredible speed in the video"  is a moot point. The pilot never claimed that the totality of what he saw is on the video. Why do you struggle with this,. Timothy?  I am sure that the pilot would love to have had the camera running when the UFO first approached his craft or when the object fled off, but he didn't. That's life, Timothy!

Just as an aside,  this case reminds me of the UFO that looked like two attached lights, off the coast of Ireland that was seen and reported by a female Irish pilot and that came up to the craft for a short while and then zoomed off at mach 2 in another direction.  Sounds similar, no?

If it's the case I recall, the most likely explanation was meteor/meteorite braking up. Another pilot thought that was what they saw too.
So it doesn't sound that similar, no.

The fact that the only video released of this is a 10 second clip which correlates very little to the OP article description is an issue.
The fact that you blindly ignore that issue to favor your ET/UFO agenda is an issue that you seem to have over and over. Just like how you cannot comprehend such a simple concept as the lens flares in the picture you posted, and continue to blindly believe that the lights are actually in the sky.

I've never seen you admit you're wrong despite the many many times you have been, so I hold little hope for anything to change.

Can I ask if you've read the actual article posted in OP yet,? Or still just UM-Bot's intro? You conveniently ignored me pointing that out previously too.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
22 hours ago, psyche101 said:

There are very earthly explanations for the Los Angeles incident.

And there are hundreds of thousands more of explanations that say "lozenger shaped" or "disk shaped" object. are you prepared to [prove all the eyewitnesses wrong? Then I side with what THEY say, not with what someone who was not there says.

22 hours ago, psyche101 said:

There are threads discussing that incident here at UM. Thete is no connection between that incident and space. Its a huge leap as well as illogical to default to an extraordinary explanation in that instance. 

LOL. And I am sure you can tell me what the US Army was firing at, right?  They *eventually* stated it was a weather balloon. do you agree?

22 hours ago, psyche101 said:

But making stuff up doesn't help with serious investigation of such claims. Unless there is a truly viable option outside of Sci Fi, it's pointless to speculate random ideas. 

Pointless for some., not for me and many others. 

22 hours ago, psyche101 said:

And yet no mothers ups have ever been sighted. More importantly of all the UFOs tracked, and there are many, not a single one has ever been confirmed as coming from space or leaving the earth's atmosphere. 

Yes mother ships have on rare occasion been seen,. But you don't believe *anything* eyewitnesses say when it comes to UFOs anyway, so.....

22 hours ago, psyche101 said:

You severely underestimate the amateur community. They have informed NASA of space incidents on more than one occasion. The amateur community answers to nobody and is not controlled by any authority. 

You don't know they ate alien spaceships though, that's a huge leap that you have personally taken. 

You recently said you speculate that aliens have been here for a long time living amongst us. If so, how would you discount that option? 

Yes but I am certain the Aliens here are deliberately non-interference with humans. If they are "interbreeding", I have seen nothing that supports it.

22 hours ago, psyche101 said:

There's nothing at all to say mu g faster than light travel is possible, and that is what would be required to support visitation ideas. 

They still have to abide by the same physics. You're assuming that nothing short of miraculous breakthroughs are not only possible but likely.

Of course breakthroughs are likely to happen. in 1900 if you *dared* speculate that one day man would fly, they would like chase you down with a net and lock you up. 70 years later, man flew to the moon. 70 years!!!  that was a great advancement in such a short amount of time. now think BILLIONS of years. Of course great achievements will be made.

22 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Wormholes are not viable travel options as far as we know,

Key word - "WE".  If you think humans will find a viable way to employ wormhole technology in the next million years, why would you have a problem with ET's knowing of it already?

22 hours ago, psyche101 said:

and light speed would not cut the mustard. Physics is not something we control, but something we observe. Everybody in the universe is stuck with them. We sure have much to learn, but that doesn't mean what we do know is wrong. That is in fact highly unlikely. And what we do know prohibits interstellar travel due to distance. 

Right but we don't know it all. and we're not close. We thought Newton told us "all" until we found out Newtonian physics failed on the atomic level, hence, quantum mechanics.

You never know!

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Earl.Of.Trumps
22 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Wormholes are a fun thought, and great in Sci Fi. In the real world they are not quite as friendly or spectacular. 

They are that way to US, we don't know what ET knows.  What I know is... they're here. Don't really care in the end how they got here. They're here.

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stereologist

I get a kick out of those that have a belief NOT based on anything but their wishful thinking. They are so ingrained in this close minded position they can't seem to understand that it is wishful thinking and there is no evidence.

 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
7 hours ago, stereologist said:

I get a kick out of those that have a belief NOT based on anything but their wishful thinking. They are so ingrained in this close minded position they can't seem to understand that it is wishful thinking and there is no evidence.

 

 

I get a kick out of you people that can't understand normal English,,   Unexplained-MYSTERIES.  Mysteries means you don't have all the facts.  So, this induces speculation.  If you want only topics in here where all the facts are known, you don't have a mystery, hence it is you who is misplaced, not the subject matter, and certainly not the posters that speculate.

So please stop holding speculators up for scorn and stick to the thread topic.

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps
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stereologist
Just now, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

 

I get a kick out of you people that can't understand normal English,,   Unexplained-MYSTERIES.  Mysteries means you don't have all the facts.  So, this induces speculation.  If you want only topics in here where all the facts are known, you don't have a mystery, hence it is you who is misplaced, not the subject matter, and certainly not the posters that speculate.

in the meantime, stick to the thread topic.

Wonderful.Now we have another case of someone that pretends that the name of the forum modifies the subject matter. How droll.

Stick to the subject matter? You of all posters seem unable to do that in any thread.

I have already supplied a reasonable description of what happened. I did not introduce supernova or worm holes and all of the other off topic crap. But you did.

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TomHaider51
On 5/13/2019 at 5:24 PM, Hankenhunter said:

Must have been a pretty crowded cockpit for all the naysayers to definitively poo poo it. Let's see, flying along in a big busy jet and a super bright object flying at blistering speed  comes perilously close to the plane then zipped off. A mad scramble ensues to get a picture but the object is already at a distance hence the fuzzy photo probably taken with a smart phone. Its really sad when all the avidly clueless debunkers jump in to get their wisecracks in without anything constructive to say except, har har, fuzzy photo means nothing there but a (insert current lame excuse i.e lamp post, Saturn, swamp gas, ètc.) easily explained phenomenon.  I'm not saying it was aliens, but they saw something that you arm chair sleuths didn't. 

I agree and not only that, but these skeptics seem to be the majority when commenting on these forums. Isn't it kind of weird that these skeptics lurk these unexplained mysteries forums more than the believers?

Edited by TomHaider51
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Habitat
1 hour ago, TomHaider51 said:

I agree and not only that, but these skeptics seem to be the majority when commenting on these forums. Isn't it kind of weird that these skeptics lurk these unexplained mysteries forums more than the believers?

It's a psychological issue. It might stem from a desire for a universe that does not throw up wild cards that upset the " there is a mundane explanation for everything" world-view. I'm tipping these people have very tidy desks.

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psyche101
On 5/18/2019 at 9:11 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

And there are hundreds of thousands more of explanations that say "lozenger shaped" or "disk shaped" object. are you prepared to [prove all the eyewitnesses wrong?

Hundreds of thousands you think? No there wasn't. All that illustrates is how prone you are to exaggeration. 

I'm not saying they are wrong, parallax error could offer a host of shapes of objects, what I'm saying is the interpretation of 'alien spaceship' is rather silly and unsupported. 

On 5/18/2019 at 9:11 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Then I side with what THEY say, not with what someone who was not there says.

No you are not siding with evidence  you are siding with the hysterical zealots screaming spaceship. You have not touched on critical evaluation. 

We're you there to confirm the zealots and denounce the sensible explanations? 

On 5/18/2019 at 9:11 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

LOL. And I am sure you can tell me what the US Army was firing at, right?  They *eventually* stated it was a weather balloon. do you agree?

Its part of the explanation for sure. War nerves and inexperienced people created the rest of the debacle. 

On 5/18/2019 at 9:11 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Pointless for some., not for me and many others. 

No, pointless for you and your ilk too. All you are doing is making unsupported crap up. How do you think that helps toward a real conclusion? 

On 5/18/2019 at 9:11 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Yes mother ships have on rare occasion been seen,. But you don't believe *anything* eyewitnesses say when it comes to UFOs anyway, so.....

No they haven't. You're making stuff up again. 

On 5/18/2019 at 9:11 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Yes but I am certain the Aliens here are deliberately non-interference with humans. If they are "interbreeding", I have seen nothing that supports it.

Then what's supports their existence to begin with? 

On 5/18/2019 at 9:11 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Of course breakthroughs are likely to happen. in 1900 if you *dared* speculate that one day man would fly, they would like chase you down with a net and lock you up.

No that would not happen. You're exaggerating wildly again. 

On 5/18/2019 at 9:11 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

70 years later, man flew to the moon. 70 years!!!  that was a great advancement in such a short amount of time. now think BILLIONS of years. Of course great achievements will be made.

We didn't fly to the moon, there's no air in space. Rockets don't fly. 

That means absolutely nothing. You think there's a standard proportion of how invention comes about. There's not. 

On 5/18/2019 at 9:11 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Key word - "WE".  If you think humans will find a viable way to employ wormhole technology in the next million years, why would you have a problem with ET's knowing of it already?

I said we can't use them. Thwt would only ever be good for random transmissions if they actually do bend space as we think. You can't direct a wormhole from one end for a start. You have to set up both ends making them useless fir your ideas. 

On 5/18/2019 at 9:11 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Right but we don't know it all. and we're not close. We thought Newton told us "all" until we found out Newtonian physics failed on the atomic level, hence, quantum mechanics.

You never know!

Yes we do know. 

We have a very good idea of basics that prohibit your fantasy ideas. It's been a long time science pioneers like Newton took those baby steps. You said yourself that we have accomplished a great deal in 70 years, why are you not acknowledging that contribution? 

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