How Iran will defeat Trump and America

[Setton]

27 minutes ago, pallidin said:

Only confirms why I should continue to ignore you... bye.

Enjoy your safe space 

[Sir Smoke aLot]

On 6/1/2019 at 11:00 PM, pallidin said:

Recall that the regime of Iran considers EVERYONE AND EVERY NATION not governed by fundamental Islam to be "Infidels" and, accordingly "worthy of being lied to", not to mention "destroyed"

I know you avoid my replies for one reason or the other but i have to reply to such fundamental mistakes.  I do not understand from where does the thirst for isis ideology come and why it pollutes Western societies. I mean it is cooked in Saudi Arabia and Israel, that's known but how does it make way to people so far away?

The concept of ''infidel'' is similar to many extremist ideologies. From KKK over to Talmudic Zionist radicals to them salafi scumbags, they all share your opinion, not Iranian one.

[Farmer77]

4 hours ago, pallidin said:

United States government.

But go ahead and hate truth.

Was it Truth that Saddam had stockpiles of WMD's and was planning on giving them to terrorists?

[Phaeton80]

5 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

I know you avoid my replies for one reason or the other but i have to reply to such fundamental mistakes.  I do not understand from where does the thirst for isis ideology come and why it pollutes Western societies. I mean it is cooked in Saudi Arabia and Israel, that's known but how does it make way to people so far away?

The concept of ''infidel'' is similar to many extremist ideologies. From KKK over to Talmudic Zionist radicals to them salafi scumbags, they all share your opinion, not Iranian one.

 

He avoids any input that goes against the black and white worldview he is accustomed to, and feels 'safe' in. For some its just easier to imagine the USA and all who are alligned with her to be 'the good', and all others 'the bad' (and, possibly, ugly). Feverishly feeding off of the mainstream koolaid (on Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Syria, Iran etc etc). They will not appreciate any facts that damage that view, they will instead see you as their enemy.

I cant shake the notion thesame is in effect with the extremists we all point our fiingers at in disgust. These people, mainly Sunni Wahhabists, see anyone that doesnt agree with them as their enemy, even (other non Wahhabi Sunni) Muslims.

Extremely similar black & white, unnuanced world views are employed by both. The only real difference is, imo, extremists like Pallidin greenlight their political regime, national military to act out the terrorism on mainly innocent civilians under the guise of some rationalisation ('peace & democracy'). With Wahhabists, they do it themselves, under their own rationalisation ('killing enemies of God').

Funny how that works, isnt it.

 

Edit: removed the she option, as 'he' specifically noted his maledom in his profile.

Edited June 3, 2019 by Phaeton80

[Sir Smoke aLot]

5 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

These people, mainly Sunni Wahhabists, see everyone that doesnt agree with them as their enemy, even Muslims.

On many occasions such idiots entered Mosques here in my city and attacked Imams because they dislike normal people who are true to their faith. I am not aware that they ever attacked Saudi backed Mosque so that's also telling. In Mosque Muslim just can not fight back and attack his attackers, even to confront someone in calm tone has no place in Mosques but that doesn't feel wrong to those ''Muslims'' around whom the West shape public opinion of Islam.

I believed that world is black and white until operation ''Protective Edge'' which almost felt personal because of such disproportionate use of force... Damn i was so angry then. Until a person ''feels'' world's injustice, in a way that empathy and emotions related to it overflow you... Until then we all chose to believe that world is black and white. I would love to meet Bibi and ask him ''is it really worth it, all these wars?''.

[Phaeton80]

25 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

On many occasions such idiots entered Mosques here in my city and attacked Imams because they dislike normal people who are true to their faith. I am not aware that they ever attacked Saudi backed Mosque so that's also telling. In Mosque Muslim just can not fight back and attack his attackers, even to confront someone in calm tone has no place in Mosques but that doesn't feel wrong to those ''Muslims'' around whom the West shape public opinion of Islam.

I believed that world is black and white until operation ''Protective Edge'' which almost felt personal because of such disproportionate use of force... Damn i was so angry then. Until a person ''feels'' world's injustice, in a way that empathy and emotions related to it overflow you... Until then we all chose to believe that world is black and white. I would love to meet Bibi and ask him ''is it really worth it, all these wars?''.

Well said brother. You know, Im really, really glad you choose to frequent this place. Youre like kryptonite against the simplified anti Islamic hyperbolish bs which is seeded 'round here daily.. Your factual knowledge, your unrelenting calm and civilness.. Impressive stuff. I think you are one of the most balanced individuals on this forum. God bless you dude.

[pallidin]

4 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Was it Truth that Saddam had stockpiles of WMD's and was planning on giving them to terrorists?

Not a single intelligence agency in the entire world gets it correct 100% of the time.

Do we then entirely dismiss the other 90% of intel-assessment ?... that would be absurd.

No nation on this planet follows your logic.

Mistakes are made; nature of the game.

[Farmer77]

7 minutes ago, pallidin said:

Not a single intelligence agency in the entire world gets it correct 100% of the time.

Your memory is faulty if you think it was a result of a mistake

No, really, George W. Bush lied about WMDs

Quote

In October 2002, Bush said that Saddam Hussein had a "massive stockpile" of biological weapons. But as CIA Director George Tenet noted in early 2004, the CIA had informed policymakers it had "no specific information on the types or quantities of weapons agent or stockpiles at Baghdad's disposal." The "massive stockpile" was just literally made up.

In December 2002, Bush declared, "We do not know whether or not [Iraq] has a nuclear weapon." That was not what the National Intelligence Estimate said. As Tenet would later testify, "We said that Saddam did not have a nuclear weapon and probably would have been unable to make one until 2007 to 2009." Bush did know whether or not Iraq had a nuclear weapon — and lied and said he didn’t know to hype the threat.

On CNN in September 2002, Condoleezza Rice claimed that aluminum tubes purchased by Iraq were "only really suited for nuclear weapons programs." This was precisely the opposite of what nuclear experts at the Energy Department were saying; they argue that not only was it very possible the tubes were for nonnuclear purposes but that it was very likely they were too. Even more dire assessments about the tubes from other agencies were exaggerated by administration officials — and in any case, the claim that they’re "only really suited" for nuclear weapons is just false.

On numerous occasions, Dick Cheney cited a report that 9/11 conspirator Mohammed Atta had met in Prague with an Iraqi intelligence officer. He said this after the CIA and FBI concluded that this meeting never took place.

More generally on the question of Iraq and al-Qaeda, on September 18, 2001, Rice received a memo summarizing intelligence on the relationship, which concluded there was little evidence of links. Nonetheless Bush continued to claim that Hussein was "a threat because he’s dealing with al-Qaeda" more than a year later.

In August 2002, Dick Cheney declared, "Simply stated, there's no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction." But as Corn notes, at that time there was "no confirmed intelligence at this point establishing that Saddam had revived a major WMD operation." Gen. Anthony Zinni, who had heard the same intelligence and attended Cheney’s speech, would later say in a documentary, "It was a total shock. I couldn't believe the vice president was saying this, you know? In doing work with the CIA on Iraq WMD, through all the briefings I heard at Langley, I never saw one piece of credible evidence that there was an ongoing program."

It was the result of an active campaign of lies contrived to convince an already shaken American populace that the cost to invade was worth paying. 

Perhaps thats not the case here but we would be fools to assume otherwise.

 

Edited June 3, 2019 by Farmer77

[pallidin]

Farm, you are a "false-flag" adherent; specifically with regards to the U.S.

I presume, similarly, that you hate everything American.

[pallidin]

Here's a direct question for you, Farm:

Is there anything about America that you DO like?

[Sir Smoke aLot]

2 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

Well said brother. You know, Im really, really glad you choose to frequent this place. Youre like kryptonite against the simplified anti Islamic hyperbolish bs which is seeded 'round here daily.. Your factual knowledge, your unrelenting calm and civilness.. Impressive stuff. I think you are one of the most balanced individuals on this forum. God bless you dude.

Thanks man, i also enjoy your posts, a lot of quality content. God bless you too.

[Farmer77]

1 minute ago, pallidin said:

Farm, you are a "false-flag" adherent; specifically with regards to the U.S.

I presume, similarly, that you hate everything American.

Man you were defending the intelligence agencies and I actually supported your argument. It wasnt the intelligence agencies who lied to us it was politicians. Im really not sure how that equates to hating everything American

1 minute ago, pallidin said:

Here's a direct question for you, Farm:

Is there anything about America that you DO like?

**** YES. I love our constitution, I love our history from Washington crossing the Delaware to the Swamp Fox to Davy Crockett and his battle against corporate land ownership, I love that our nation is the sleeping giant that awoke to save the world from tyranny , I love our freedom to discuss this and I love our freedom to smoke a bowl or drink a beer or climb a mountain or do just about whatever the hell we want because its a free country. 

Just like I love my children but will still tell them when they are ****ing up or call them on a lie when I hear it.

[pallidin]

OK, you dispise American government.

Got it.

[Farmer77]

2 minutes ago, pallidin said:

OK, you dispise American government.

Got it.

No the exact opposite actually. Do you call a child out on his behavior because you despise it or because you love it and want to see it reach its full potential?

[pallidin]

3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

No the exact opposite actually. Do you call a child out on his behavior because you despise it or because you love it and want to see it reach its full potential?

So, you STILL despise the American government because they are a "child", and you have all the answers.

OK. At least we got a baseline here.

[Tatetopa]

34 minutes ago, pallidin said:

Do we then entirely dismiss the other 90% of intel-assessment ?... that would be absurd.

No nation on this planet follows your logic.

If we are the current US administration and Vladimir Putin tells us he did not meddle in US elections despite claims from American Intelligence Agencies, we do.

[Farmer77]

Just now, pallidin said:

So, you STILL despise the American government because they are a "child", and you have all the answers.

OK. At least we got a baseline here.

You're working really hard to create a false caricature of me. Why is that? Could it be because putting me in a box makes it easier for you to avoid paying attention to the words im posting? 

[pallidin]

15 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

You're working really hard to create a false caricature of me. Why is that? Could it be because putting me in a box makes it easier for you to avoid paying attention to the words im posting? 

I think you have created that caricature all by yourself... no help from me needed.

As you know, I've been around for a long time, and all I see in your posts is incessant complaining.

[Farmer77]

2 minutes ago, pallidin said:

I think you have created that caricature all by yourself... no help from me needed.

As you know, I've been around for a long time, and all I see in your posts is incessant complaining.

Yeah im like that. I call a spade a spade. Ive paid my dues I have that right.

The Trumpians among us should appreciate that and all the "incessant complaining". Seeing as how they voted for a man who spoke of "American carnage" in 2016 it would seem complaining was appropriate.

[pallidin]

I will say this, Farm, the fact that you are open and honest is commendable.

We all have our traits, differences and bias...

Though you and I disagree at times (and I with others), I do appreciate your candor.

[+and-then]

On 6/2/2019 at 3:28 PM, Setton said:

You're sure you're not describing Saudi Arabia? 

It's not a mutually exclusive club, man.  It's bad news, regardless which flavor you pick.  For all their other depredations, however, I hadn't heard that S.A. was working on becoming a nuclear weapons state.  I'm serious, guy.  Can you imagine what the world economy would be like if those nutjobs could close the Straits of Hormuz on a whim?  Once they have the bomb, who's going to come against them?

[+and-then]

5 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

which almost felt personal because of such disproportionate use of force

"If someone rises to kill you, KILL HIM FIRST!"   You may be confusing the responses of Christians with those of Jews.  Jews know that they can fight or they can disappear.  Would you have preferred that they send in Mossad or some spec ops and kidnap 3 Palestinian school kids at random and slaughter them like animals?  It bought them a general period of quiet since 2014.  Just wait until Hizballah gets the order to attack from southern Lebanon.  You may need antianxiety meds.  It isn't going to be a nice thing to watch.

[Setton]

18 minutes ago, and then said:

It's not a mutually exclusive club, man.  It's bad news, regardless which flavor you pick. 

No, but to say Iran is the 'world leader' in sponsoring terrorism with all the cash that flowed from SA to ISIS is... bold. Let's go with bold. 

In the last 10 years, 37 civilians have been killed by terrorists in the UK. 34 by Sunni extremists (the ones funded by Saudis), 3 by right wing extremists and 0 by Shia extremists. Who should we be most concerned with? 

Quote

For all their other depredations, however, I hadn't heard that S.A. was working on becoming a nuclear weapons state.  I'm serious, guy.  Can you imagine what the world economy would be like if those nutjobs could close the Straits of Hormuz on a whim?  Once they have the bomb, who's going to come against them?

The issue is that, as with Iraq, there's no evidence they are building such weapons. The JCPOA has been, as far as can be assessed, a success. Until you pulled out and started with the threats. 

It's just got too many parallels with Iraq for me to comfortable. A middle eastern country sticking to an agreed upon deal. A US administration bent on regime change regardless. A spineless UK leadership. As before, the UK will need more of a legal justification for war than the US. I just hope our intelligence services have learned from last time. 

[Sir Smoke aLot]

8 hours ago, and then said:

"If someone rises to kill you, KILL HIM FIRST!"

About 1600 children were killed and many more injured while :

Israelis were cheering on hilltops over Gaza, LINK. In Israeli press it was reported about some ''fake'' image but actually there is full video too and nothing but ''cheering'' under quotations, meaning ''allegedly'' was offered as an explanation from pro Israeli sources. 

It was so dangerous for them that they could watch the ''fireworks'' and cheer. I tell you when you are in war you can not go outside if you are threatened. I know that, personally. But that doesn't change the fact that disproportionate force was used as reported by mainstream agencies and human rights activists. It doesn't hurt to admit those 'little'' facts. 

8 hours ago, and then said:

It bought them a general period of quiet since 2014.

But it is not quiet man, it never was. Especially with march of return.

8 hours ago, and then said:

Just wait until Hizballah gets the order to attack from southern Lebanon.  You may need antianxiety meds.  It isn't going to be a nice thing to watch.

They haven't attacked since 2006, it's been 13 years and only Arab leader which is taken seriously by Israel is Nasrallah because he speaks the truth, he said that IF Lebanon is attacked that they will retaliate. Hezbollah only reacts to aggression.

I would not advise anyone to cure empathy, it might lead to serious problems... Like those problems mentioned above. Thanks for concern.

[RoofGardener]

3 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

About 1600 children were killed and many more injured while :

Israelis were cheering on hilltops over Gaza, LINK. In Israeli press it was reported about some ''fake'' image but actually there is full video too and nothing but ''cheering'' under quotations, meaning ''allegedly'' was offered as an explanation from pro Israeli sources. 

It was so dangerous for them that they could watch the ''fireworks'' and cheer. I tell you when you are in war you can not go outside if you are threatened. I know that, personally. But that doesn't change the fact that disproportionate force was used as reported by mainstream agencies and human rights activists. It doesn't hurt to admit those 'little'' facts. 

But it is not quiet man, it never was. Especially with march of return.

They haven't attacked since 2006, it's been 13 years and only Arab leader which is taken seriously by Israel is Nasrallah because he speaks the truth, he said that IF Lebanon is attacked that they will retaliate. Hezbollah only reacts to aggression.

I would not advise anyone to cure empathy, it might lead to serious problems... Like those problems mentioned above. Thanks for concern.

Hmmm... when Gaza launches hundreds of rockets at  you over a period of a few days, who decides what constitutes a "proportionate" response ? Ultimately, the IDF is sworn to protect Israeli citizens, not those in Gaza. 

As for Hezbollah only reacting to aggression... well.. unfortunately, they regard the very existence of Israel as an act of aggression  

They can watch the fireworks and "cheer" simply BECAUSE the IDF are doing their job - keeping the death and destruction as far away as possible ! 

Umm.. what did you mean by 2006 ? Are you saying that Hezbollah hasn't attacked since then, or that Israel hasn't attacked since then ?  

Edited June 4, 2019 by RoofGardener