Alabama abortion ban: Republican senate

[RavenHawk]

1 minute ago, Setton said:

But I will continue to laugh at anyone who thinks science has nothing to do with it but an old book does. 

Then you are truly ignorant.  What does science have to do with a law to allow late-term abortion?  It doesn’t.  It is policy driven, not scientifically driven.  You can’t seem to get beyond that.  That old book provides information that science can’t.

[Jerry Gallo]

8 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Well that's an opinion. It's not the one you originally put forward. You claimed that embryology was against abortion, then didn't support that claim in any way.

The truth is that there is a worldwide scientific concensus on abortion. 

Never said those words, read them again. "Science (embryology) actually supports pro-life stance far more than pro-abortion one." Pro-life stance is that abortion is murder under any circumstance because life begins at conception, which you agreed with, as do the embryology textbooks you chose not to read quotes from. You keep referring to vague "science" and now "scientific consensus" with regards to abortion, which are cliches. What consensus are you referring to? Abortion in and of itself is not a scientific act, it's a moral one. It's voluntary and must be performed, just happens to be done by medical people which is how people attach the science. The only scientific reasoning I have read is life begins with the first breath and there is absolutely no consensus on that, which I have explained with requested links.

My first post on the issue referred to late term abortion with 100% clarity, that many came to accept first trimester abortion but when the pendulum swung to late term, protests ensued. You tried to be clever with the fixed this for you science cliche. Thus, it's incumbent upon you to explain how the science justifies late term abortion. All arguments from the pro-abortion lobby have zero to do with science, especially on late term abortion.

[ExpandMyMind]

18 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

One of my pet peeves is this: Science is not a consensus.  Science is about facts not opinions.

Indeed, broadly speaking 'science is not a concensus'. However, there are numerous areas of science in which concensuses exist. We're discussing one right now.

[RavenHawk]

18 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Indeed, broadly speaking 'science is not a concensus'. However, there are numerous areas of science in which concensuses exist. We're discussing one right now.

No, it’s not.  You might have scientists that share or believe an opinion.  You could have 5 million scientists say that X is true in consensus and it only takes one to prove it false.

 

We are not discussing science.  we are discussing policy, i.e. late-term abortion.

[RoofGardener]

2 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Do a few Google searches, mate. It's complete bull**** to say the Dems want to kill babies after they're born. If a baby survives an abortion, which is basically unheard of, the baby is cared for like a normal patient. It's pure propaganda.

Hmm... you're right ExpandMyMind. However, the new bill (proposed by Democrat Kathy Tran) allows 'abortion' all the way up to the mother dilating.

Now, this was always the case, but it required three doctors to sign off on it. Her bill - which fortunately did NOT become law - removes that requirement, and leaves it down to the mother and the single doctor. In addition, the terms under which such a procedure could be carried out have been weakened. 

https://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2019/feb/06/kathy-tran/del-kathy-tran-wrong-saying-bill-wouldnt-change-la/

Also, at about 20 seconds in........ 

, It gets even more horrific at around 02:30 seconds in. 

[Jerry Gallo]

21 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmm... you're right ExpandMyMind. However, the new bill (proposed by Democrat Kathy Tran) allows 'abortion' all the way up to the mother dilating.

Now, this was always the case, but it required three doctors to sign off on it. Her bill - which fortunately did NOT become law - removes that requirement, and leaves it down to the mother and the single doctor. In addition, the terms under which such a procedure could be carried out have been weakened. 

https://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2019/feb/06/kathy-tran/del-kathy-tran-wrong-saying-bill-wouldnt-change-la/

Also, at about 20 seconds in........ 

, It gets even more horrific at around 02:30 seconds in. 

One true hallmark of liberalism is that they want some pretty disturbing things, but they don't have the courage to just say it. Even they know how unpalatable their desires are. Shouldn't that tell them something about themselves?

[aztek]

28 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmm... you're right ExpandMyMind. However, the new bill (proposed by Democrat Kathy Tran) allows 'abortion' all the way up to the mother dilating.

 

he is not right, he is dead wrong as usual, in the video at 1.20 it clearly states killing a baby after it was born, even if baby has health issues, does not matter, it is still a murder.

 

[RavenHawk]

34 minutes ago, Jerry Gallo said:

One true hallmark of liberalism is that they want some pretty disturbing things, but they don't have the courage to just say it. Even they know how unpalatable their desires are. Shouldn't that tell them something about themselves?

Maybe too many Tares are being born?

ETA: Yes that was sarcasm.

Edited May 15, 2019 by RavenHawk

[Imaginarynumber1]

5 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

@and then

I stand corrected. (Can't quote you for some reason)

It's in the Georgia bill that just passed, so you just had the hill person infested state wrong. 

[Imaginarynumber1]

2 hours ago, aztek said:

he is not right, he is dead wrong as usual, in the video at 1.20 it clearly states killing a baby after it was born, even if baby has health issues, does not matter, it is still a murder.

 

Do you understand what non-viable means in terms of birth?

[Buzz_Light_Year]

13 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Do you understand what non-viable means in terms of birth?

Please give the forum your definition of non-viable. Just for the Record.

[zep73]

14 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Alabama’s Republican-controlled state senate passed a bill Tuesday to outlaw abortion, making it a crime to perform the procedure at any stage of pregnancy.

The strictest-in-the-nation abortion ban allows an exception only when the woman’s health is at serious risk, and sets up a legal battle that supporters hope will lead to the supreme court overturning its landmark ruling that legalized abortion nationwide.

And I thought only the muslims were 600 years behind.

[+OverSword]

5 hours ago, and then said:

Probably, but people down here are inured to "lost causes"   It's more about making a statement.  The fact that it has stirred so much outrage shows where the mind of the country is.  So be it.  Just because the majority is against you doesn't mean you are wrong.  There is nothing wrong with making a statement of belief.

The elected are there to serve the citizens. Judging by the amount of protesters I saw in your state capital they aren’t interested in the opinion or sensibilities of half of them. That’s a problem my state seems to share but in favor of democrats rather than republicans.

[+OverSword]

5 hours ago, and then said:

Is the law just passed in New York, political theater?

It will be overturned also and any lawmakers knows it so yes, it too is idealistic political theater and a waste of taxpayers time and money. People in both states need to ensure the authors of both laws lose their next reelection.

[aztek]

44 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Do you understand what non-viable means in terms of birth?

what difference does it make? isn't every human life priceless? are you advocating for euthanasia?   why do you keep bringing drug addicts back, only so they od again, and prbly rob\hurt someone in the process.  are they viable to society?

[Merc14]

10 hours ago, Jerry Gallo said:

It's more likely a push back on the late term and post birth abortions that the left has been pushing recently. Many folks made their peace with first trimester abortions, special cases (rape, incest, health of mother/baby), now we've morphed from "not a life until first breath" to "not a life if he/she isn't up to our expectations". The pendulum has swung too far to the left, so the right is taking the lead of pushing back in the exact same format they've been pushed - to extremes. We will see all the familiar "going backwards" and "stupid religious people" tripe, but I doubt we'll see any legitimate discussion.

The answer is to legislate this into a Constitutional amendment as we should have done in 1973. If they cannot do so in the secular progressive society that exists in the US today, then perhaps the US isn't as pro-abortion as that lobby wants us to believe. Should probably be a states issue, but I doubt Kavanaugh and Roberts will both rule that way. There's a reason many of us oppose legislating from the bench on social issues, it just leaves the door open for constant gridlock in the courts.

Yeah, same old hysterics we have been witnessing since the court "made law".  Roe vs. Wade is bad law and the court should never have passed it because the right thing to have done is kick this right back into congress' lap and tell them to do their job and make a law.  If congress had voted and made law then maybe the country would've moved on so I agree that this is what Alabama is doing.

Congress, do your job and if you can''t then leave it to the states, that's how this is supposed to work, not 9 people in robes deciding everything because our congress is terrified of losing their jobs (term limits anyone?).  The left will be apoplectic and beyond reason, as usual, and they despise the constitution anyways but Alabama forcing thee issue is a good thing, not a bad thing, let's fix this the right way.

 

[Agent0range]

8 hours ago, Jerry Gallo said:

Rape and incest exceptions were added via voice vote in committee.

https://www.al.com/news/2019/05/alabama-abortion-ban-to-get-key-committee-vote-today.html

Actually it was not added, it was proposed, and it failed 11-21.  Rape and incest ARE NOT exceptions.  

So, lawmakers in Alabama believe that if a 12 year old girl is raped by her father, and becomes pregnant, she should be forced to have that baby.  If a doctor believes she should not have to have that baby, and performs an abortion, that doctor can be sentenced to 99 years in prison.  Anyone who doesn't think that is absolute madness..is absolutely mad.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Agent0range

[Merc14]

32 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

Actually it was not added, it was proposed, and it failed 11-21.  Rape and incest ARE NOT exceptions.  

So, lawmakers in Alabama believe that if a 12 year old girl is raped by her father, and becomes pregnant, she should be forced to have that baby.  If a doctor believes she should not have to have that baby, and performs an abortion, that doctor can be sentenced to 99 years in prison.  Anyone who doesn't think that is absolute madness..is absolutely mad.

This is the hysterical response I was talking about. 

Shouldn't this be decided in congress rather than nine senior citizens in black robes?  Why are you against the people deciding as the Constitution dictated?  Stand by folks.

 

[ExpandMyMind]

9 hours ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

It's in the Georgia bill that just passed, so you just had the hill person infested state wrong. 

Yeah, I figured that out. It was in the Shapiro video on here.

[Kismit]

On 15/05/2019 at 1:57 PM, docyabut2 said:

Great, to save lives

It won’t save lives, outlawing medical abortion, making it difficult or taboo to have an abortion will increase the death rate of young girls. Suicides and death after the misusing of , I hate to say it, coat hangers, and other horrific old fashioned home grown remedies are all this will achieve. 

For as long as sex has been a part of life, birth control has existed. Taking away the safe options is just dangerous and stupid. 25 Men made this decision 25 MEN, what right do they have to decide for the rights of women..... I can not even begin to tell you how much anger I feel about just that one revolting aspect of this, not one of those men will ever have to face the loss of a child in the way that a woman might need to. Absolutely disgusting.

But I guarantee if one of those 25 Men had a mistress who accidentally got pregnant, they would conveniently forget their stance.

World health organisation

Scientific studies into unsafe abortion

Perhaps the most surprising thing about banning abortion is what doesn’t happen when abortion becomes a crime. Abortion does not go away

[RoofGardener]

7 hours ago, Merc14 said:

This is the hysterical response I was talking about. 

Shouldn't this be decided in congress rather than nine senior citizens in black robes?  Why are you against the people deciding as the Constitution dictated?  Stand by folks.

 

Just a minor point, but I don't think Congress is SUPPOSED to "decide" what the constitution dictated. Congress makes laws. The Supremes decide whether those laws are consistent with the Constitution. (as well as making popular hits such as "Stop, in the Name of Love", and "You can't hurry Love" ). 

[docyabut2]

2 hours ago, Kismit said:

It won’t save lives, outlawing medical abortion, making it difficult or taboo to have an abortion will increase the death rate of young girls. Suicides and death after the misusing of , I hate to say it, coat hangers, and other horrific old fashioned home grown remedies are all this will achieve. 

For as long as sex has been a part of life, birth control has existed. Taking away the safe options is just dangerous and stupid. 25 Men made this decision 25 MEN, what right do they have to decide for the rights of women, what filth, what absolute ..... I can not even begin to tell you how much anger I feel about just that one revolting aspect of this, not one of those men will ever have to face the loss of a child in the way that a woman might need to. Absolutely disgusting.

But I guarantee if one of those 25 Men had a mistress who accidentally got pregnant, they would conveniently forget their stance.

 

World health organisation

Scientific studies into unsafe abortion

 

Perhaps the most surprising thing about banning abortion is what doesn’t happen when abortion becomes a crime. Abortion does not go away

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/05/15/alabama-gov-kay-ivey-signs-nations-strictest-abortion-bill/23727061/

(Today, I signed into law the Alabama Human Life Protection Act. To the bill’s many supporters, this legislation stands as a powerful testament to Alabamians’ deeply held belief that every life is precious & that every life is a sacred gift from God.)

 

I agree with gov kay , it could give the young girls a belief, that every life in them is precious, they won`nt get those horrific abortions.:(    

[Kismit]

19 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/05/15/alabama-gov-kay-ivey-signs-nations-strictest-abortion-bill/23727061/

(Today, I signed into law the Alabama Human Life Protection Act. To the bill’s many supporters, this legislation stands as a powerful testament to Alabamians’ deeply held belief that every life is precious & that every life is a sacred gift from God.)

 

I agree with gov kay , it could give the young girls a belief, that every life in them is precious, they won`nt get those horrific abortions.:(    

Governor Kay has not stopped abortion, he has just made it unsafe. That is not respecting the sanctity of life.

Please go back and read my links. Particularly the one that reads”Making abortion illegal does not stop abortions.” It is an actual report on a country that made abortion illegal. You won’t stop it, you just end up causing more harm.

[docyabut2]

2 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Governor Kay has not stopped abortion, he has just made it unsafe. That is not respecting the sanctity of life.

Governor Kay is a she:)

[Kismit]

Sorry, She won’t stop abortions.