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Alabama abortion ban: Republican senate

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Princess Bride
3 hours ago, Uncle Sam said:

What is so wrong about putting funds into fixing our broken adoption system? 

Nothing wrong with that but it can easily be exploitive of young mothers that would have rather raised their own children even after a forced birth. It can amount to human trafficking even.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Scoop_Era

 

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Rlyeh
9 hours ago, aztek said:

if that is comparable, then it would be just as correct to  equate transgender with pedophiles

Transgender is the same as sexual attraction to children?  You probably get this a lot, but you're an idiot.

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Rlyeh
12 hours ago, Jerry Gallo said:

False equivalence, by 10000 miles. How you compare the punishment of folks like Gacy, Bundy and McVeigh to the choice to kill an innocent life in the womb as remotely similar takes a special kind of thought process.

Does lethal injection involve doctors taking lives?  It's either yes or no.

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Rlyeh
8 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

its seems to be only when life starts in a body:)

Those goal posts keep moving.

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and then
On 5/17/2019 at 5:53 AM, Princess Bride said:

especially if they were too many or not approved of by her.

I'm curious about your feelings on the topic of multiple abortions by any individual woman regardless of whether they are 1st trimester or not.  Remember the Clinton era mantra? 

Bill Clinton once said, should be safe, legal, and rare

Leaving aside opinions of either side in this debate, do you believe there is anything wrong with some women using abortion as a form of birth control?  If a woman has several abortions, 3-4 or more, I think it displays an attitude of absolute disregard for the creation and disposition of life in the womb.  What say you?

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Uncle Sam
9 hours ago, Princess Bride said:

Nothing wrong with that but it can easily be exploitive of young mothers that would have rather raised their own children even after a forced birth. It can amount to human trafficking even.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Scoop_Era

 

That is why I think it needs to be focused on. I was adopted out at 3 weeks old and my adoptive family has given me a home. They loved me and cared for me till I became the man I am today. As for abortion, it doesn't give the fetus a chance to live at all. Most abortions that I hear of is done for selfish reasons and that irks me. There are families out there that can't conceive children, so they go without any kids which are taxing on their mentality. Everyone wins in adoption. I want the broken adoption system fixed, that is why I think there should be a major push for this. Abortion has gotten out of control, but adoption is being neglected.

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Jerry Gallo
7 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Does lethal injection involve doctors taking lives?  It's either yes or no.

Yes

By that standard, you just made the best case yet to ban abortion for good. Everything from taking a life via the morning after pill, to taking a life to protect the mother's health, to taking a life of a rapist's or incestuous father's child, to taking a life due to non-viability, to taking a life as a form of birth control, will now be a crime. You sure you're "all in" on this?  

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Rlyeh
1 hour ago, Jerry Gallo said:

By that standard, you just made the best case yet to ban abortion for good. Everything from taking a life via the morning after pill, to taking a life to protect the mother's health, to taking a life of a rapist's or incestuous father's child, to taking a life due to non-viability, to taking a life as a form of birth control, will now be a crime. You sure you're "all in" on this?  

So by calling you pro-lifers on your double-standard, I made the best case against abortion?
Did you really use your brain when you wrote this?  Looks like aztek has a friend.

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Opus Magnus

 

 

Matthew 5:38-40 New International Version (NIV)

Eye for Eye

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a]39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.

 

Exodus 21:22-25 King James Version (KJV)

22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Edited by Opus Magnus

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Gromdor
37 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said:

 

 

Matthew 5:38-40 New International Version (NIV)

Eye for Eye

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a]39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.

 

Exodus 21:22-25 King James Version (KJV)

22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Neat, So the bible does say that the men and not the women get to determine the punishment for an aborted fetus.  It sounds like it's just a fine though.  If we ever ditch the Constitution and go the Sharia Law route, I will have to keep this in mind.

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Jerry Gallo
43 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

So by calling you pro-lifers on your double-standard, I made the best case against abortion?
Did you really use your brain when you wrote this?  Looks like aztek has a friend.

The double standard is yours. You set the bar on a simplistic "taking a life" theme when it comes to the DP. Using your standard, taking any life is wrong. Apply your standard to abortion, that standard applied equally and fairly dictates abortion must also be wrong. Period. Has nothing to do with me really. You want the DP to be black and white with no context, abortion to be nuanced shades of gray, thus proving the double standard is yours and is a false equivalency. Either it's black and white for both issues to compare and contrast fairly or both are shades of gray issues. Had you led with "I crave abortion so bad that I accept the DP", that supports a same standard approach.

But you get the shades of gray wrong too, if that is the same standard. You portray the exacting of punishment per the law on an admitted and proven serial killer as an injustice, but taking the life of an innocent child in the womb is "nothing to see here". Either way, the double standard on DP and abortion has always been the left's Achilles. The calf pull from favoring the original injury is the incapability of realizing their own inconsistency. 

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Rlyeh
16 minutes ago, Jerry Gallo said:

The double standard is yours. You set the bar on a simplistic "taking a life" theme when it comes to the DP.

No.  I was responding to someone who said "Abortions are sad that Doctors have to kill lives, when their job is to save lives", to which I said "sad unless it's lethal injection".

 

Quote

Using your standard, taking any life is wrong.

I said no such thing.

Edited by Rlyeh

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South Alabam

Not arguing for or against abortions. It is just sad that when teaching sex education and the use of condoms and birth control over and over in schools we end up with abortions when only 1% of all abortions are used to save to save the life of the mother. The rest are poor planning or other factors. Sad overall.

https://www.abortionfacts.com/

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Jerry Gallo
10 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

No.  I was responding to someone who said "Abortions are sad that Doctors have to kill lives, when their job is to save lives", to which I said "sad unless it's lethal injection".

 

I said no such thing.

I'm well aware of what you said. "Sad unless it's lethal injection" was a pretense that the two things were equivalent per the same moral standard. The rub here is that you don't comprehend your attempt to be clever was what I have said, a false equivalency and a double standard. They are two fundamentally different issues, like a drink driver killing a family of four versus an aged man having a stroke, passing out and killing a family of four. Similar circumstance of outcome, but very different context. 

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Gromdor
19 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

Not arguing for or against abortions. It is just sad that when teaching sex education and the use of condoms and birth control over and over in schools we end up with abortions when only 1% of all abortions are used to save to save the life of the mother. The rest are poor planning or other factors. Sad overall.

https://www.abortionfacts.com/

Eh, Alabama doesn't require sex ed in schools and what little is provided is required by law to emphasize abstinence.  ( I also like the portion where it is required to say homosexuality is bad and against the law in Alabama).  https://codes.findlaw.com/al/title-16-education/al-code-sect-16-40a-2.html

Edit to add:  It's pretty much the same for Georgia: https://www.macon.com/news/local/education/article215972505.html

Edited by Gromdor

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Rlyeh
11 minutes ago, Jerry Gallo said:

I'm well aware of what you said. "Sad unless it's lethal injection" was a pretense that the two things were equivalent per the same moral standard.

The fact I had to correct you shows you're not aware of what I said.

 

11 minutes ago, Jerry Gallo said:

The rub here is that you don't comprehend your attempt to be clever was what I have said, a false equivalency and a double standard. They are two fundamentally different issues, like a drink driver killing a family of four versus an aged man having a stroke, passing out and killing a family of four. Similar circumstance of outcome, but very different context. 

And this straw man proves you still don't understand what I said.

I'm going to repeat once more for you.
Someone said "Abortions are sad that Doctors have to kill lives, when their job is to save lives".  You following?  I responded with "Sad unless it's lethal injection".

The same argument "their job is to save lives" against abortion applies to lethal injection.

BTW find out what a false equivalence is, you're only making yourself look illiterate.

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Princess Bride
8 hours ago, and then said:

I'm curious about your feelings on the topic of multiple abortions by any individual woman regardless of whether they are 1st trimester or not.  Remember the Clinton era mantra? 

Bill Clinton once said, should be safe, legal, and rare

Leaving aside opinions of either side in this debate, do you believe there is anything wrong with some women using abortion as a form of birth control?  If a woman has several abortions, 3-4 or more, I think it displays an attitude of absolute disregard for the creation and disposition of life in the womb.  What say you?

The Clintons are corporatists and neoliberals. I could care less what either of them thinks. Just like not all Republicans are the same, neither are all Democrats. Current methods tend towards early, non-surgical abortions. I think it's no one's business how many abortions other women have or why. 

Also, what is so special about life in the womb? What about life in a test tube or a science lab? I don't hear any complaints about embryos being destroyed as part of divorce settlements, usually at the wishes of the potential father. Why is that? Could it be you all don't trust women and just want to control us? I seriously think that is all that is to it.

Being human is extremely complicated and the life in a womb isn't a human being yet, but the woman carrying it is. Maybe you should get women's wombs off your pedestal and be more concerned with life outside the womb, including those women whose wombs you exalt so highly here but actually care so little about in reality.

Also, just how many people do we need here? I really think there is something to be said about quality over quantity. Have you been to a third world orphanage? Have you ever seen a baby that was the result of father/daughter incest and the horrible chromosomal abnormalities that go with it? I have...

Making children suffer is cruel. I think we need to make sure the children we already have are adopted, fed, clothed, housed, educated, welcomed, etc. I also would like women to continue making progress in careers and within power dynamics, if it is what fulfills them and brings them happiness. I think some older women that didn't get that chance, maybe just lost the chance to be a mother due to having an abortion without the opportunities to fulfill other ambitions. I think that has created a lot of bitterness towards other women. Obviously, men are wanting women reverted back to property status. So sad and so pathetic.

Young women and LGBQs are going to have to find the wherewithal to stand up and fight for their rights once again... and maybe even again.

 

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Princess Bride
6 hours ago, Uncle Sam said:

That is why I think it needs to be focused on. I was adopted out at 3 weeks old and my adoptive family has given me a home. They loved me and cared for me till I became the man I am today. As for abortion, it doesn't give the fetus a chance to live at all. Most abortions that I hear of is done for selfish reasons and that irks me. There are families out there that can't conceive children, so they go without any kids which are taxing on their mentality. Everyone wins in adoption. I want the broken adoption system fixed, that is why I think there should be a major push for this. Abortion has gotten out of control, but adoption is being neglected.

No, not everyone wins in adoptions. Go back and read about the Baby Scoop Era and how exploitive it was. Birth is extremely painful and the postpartum effects last a lifetime. Too bad if you think women that make choices that benefit them is selfish. Maybe you need to go look up your birth mother and have a talk with her if you haven't already. Maybe you need to honor her and the sacrifices she made to bring you into this world. Too many birth moms get treated badly by their grown adopted children and the adopted mothers that are threatened by them.

If you are suffering infertility now, you need to go make peace with people you've harmed. If you have mocked or stolen from older relatives or even your birth mom then you need to welcome them back into your life and be good to them. Your "womb" will be closed until you do.

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aztek
13 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Transgender is the same as sexual attraction to children?  You probably get this a lot, but you're an idiot.

actually you just proves that the idiot is you, for comparing lethal injection for terrorists and  murderers to abortion ban, you are even bigger idiot for not seeing the difference, my post was about flashing out your stupidity, and it did it perfectly., as well as hypocrisy. not that i ever doubt you had those in you, but you just proved how much of an hypocritical idiot you are. congrats, 

Edited by aztek

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Jerry Gallo
3 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

The fact I had to correct you shows you're not aware of what I said.

 

And this straw man proves you still don't understand what I said.

I'm going to repeat once more for you.
Someone said "Abortions are sad that Doctors have to kill lives, when their job is to save lives".  You following?  I responded with "Sad unless it's lethal injection".

The same argument "their job is to save lives" against abortion applies to lethal injection.

BTW find out what a false equivalence is, you're only making yourself look illiterate.

Now you are back peddling. The doctor is not "killing a life" in lethal injections, they are there to ensure executions are done as humanely as possible when carrying out the law. In some states, they don't even administer the drugs. And they are not there in a "practicing medicine" capacity, not treating or diagnosing anything or anyone. 

Abortions are voluntary, victim is alwaya a third party with no say, condemned on a whim, while some activists derive pride and joy from it. And some morally bankrupt cheerleaders for abortion are the very ones upset when victim's families derive satisfaction from an execution.

You just don't have the courage to admit you crapped the bed with your sarcastic reply. Three insults later about my intellect and you still can't see the difference between the two. 

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Rlyeh
10 hours ago, aztek said:

actually you just proves that the idiot is you, for comparing lethal injection for terrorists and  murderers to abortion ban, you are even bigger idiot for not seeing the difference, my post was about flashing out your stupidity, and it did it perfectly., as well as hypocrisy. not that i ever doubt you had those in you, but you just proved how much of an hypocritical idiot you are. congrats, 

Wow.  You pro-lifers are illiterate morons.  Just like Jerry Gallo,  you completely ignored the argument I was responding to.

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aztek
6 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Wow.  You pro-lifers are illiterate morons.  Just like Jerry Gallo,  you completely ignored the argument I was responding to.

thank you for proving my point once again.  i never said i was pro lifer,  nor i oppose abortions completely, but it is too complicated for a moron like you to comprehend , you actually are a perfect case for abortions to be encouraged, 

Edited by aztek
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Rlyeh
1 minute ago, aztek said:

thank you for proving my point once again.  i never said i was pro lifer,  nor i oppose abortions completely, but it is too complicated for a moron like you to comprehend 

Ok, you're just an illiterate moron then.

The fact you don't comprehend the argument "Doctors are to save lives" directly affects lethal injections is amazing.

 

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aztek
Just now, Rlyeh said:

Ok, you're just an illiterate moron then.

The fact you don't comprehend the argument "Doctors are to save lives" directly affects lethal injections is amazing.

 

meh,  lame.   tell me something else moronic

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