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Eldorado

UK inequality "making a mockery of democracy"

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Eldorado

"Widening inequalities in pay, health and opportunities in the UK are undermining trust in democracy, says an Institute for Fiscal Studies report.

"The think tank warns of runaway incomes for high earners but rises in "deaths of despair", such as from addiction and suicide, among the poorest.

"It warns of risks to "centre-ground" politics from stagnating pay and divides in health and education.

"The report says such widening gaps are "making a mockery of democracy"."

Full article at the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-48229037

"The study found stark geographical inequalities in the UK with average weekly earnings in London 66 per cent higher than those in the North East.

"And men in the most affluent areas can expect to live nearly 10 years longer than those in the most deprived areas, and this gap is widening."

Full report at the Daily Telegraph: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/05/13/deaths-despair-rising-among-middle-aged-britons-report-warns/

At the IFS: https://www.ifs.org.uk/inequality/chapter/briefing-note/

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ouija ouija

AARGH!! But we all know this ffs!!!!! A report on why nothing ever gets done about it(naming names), would be more helpful ...... plus lots and lots of ACTION!!!!

 

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Eldorado
5 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

AARGH!! But we all know this ffs!!!!! A report on why nothing ever gets done about it(naming names), would be more helpful ...... plus lots and lots of ACTION!!!!

 

"As well as deepening our understanding of inequalities in the twenty-first century, the IFS Deaton Review aims to provide solutions – to build a comprehensive, intellectually coherent and deliverable agenda for action."  https://www.ifs.org.uk/inequality/chapter/briefing-note/

Only a fifth of the UK public trust the politicians they choose at the ballot box, so our heroes have a hard task ahead.

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Essan

None of which has anything whatsoever to do with democracy!

Besides which, we don't live in a democracy.   We live under a oligarchy (specifically, a particracy), perpetuated by the media and the ignorant electorate.   People in this country wouldn't know democracy if it was a 100ft high and jumped up and down in the Thames for a week.

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Desertrat56
Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, Essan said:

None of which has anything whatsoever to do with democracy!

Besides which, we don't live in a democracy.   We live under a oligarchy (specifically, a particracy), perpetuated by the media and the ignorant electorate.   People in this country wouldn't know democracy if it was a 100ft high and jumped up and down in the Thames for a week.

Same as in the U.S. and problably Canada, Australia, South Africa and all the other children of the empire.

Edited by Desertrat56
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RabidMongoose
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Essan said:

None of which has anything whatsoever to do with democracy!

Besides which, we don't live in a democracy.   We live under a oligarchy (specifically, a particracy), perpetuated by the media and the ignorant electorate.   People in this country wouldn't know democracy if it was a 100ft high and jumped up and down in the Thames for a week.

We live in a Constitutional Monarchy not an Oligarchy. 

Income inequality is a good thing. We need to reward those who do the most for society with the most money. We just need to make sure the bottom lot can live.

Edited by RabidMongoose
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Desertrat56
12 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

We live in a Constitutional Monarchy not an Oligarchy. 

Income inequality is a good thing. We need to reward those who do the most for society with the most money. We just need to make sure the bottom lot can live.

Are you sure those who do the most for society are the ones getting rewarded monetarily?  Are you sure the people who have all the money are doing "the most" for society? 

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aztek
Posted (edited)

yes they do, they build businesses, provide jobs, buy expensive things, which are build by people who are employed, pay more taxes than millions of poor put together, so yea, they do, even if you do not like it. but i'm pretty sure the only reason you do not like it is because you are not one of them, but you could have been if you pushed yourself harder, and made different choices in life

Edited by aztek

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Desertrat56
4 minutes ago, aztek said:

yes they do, they build businesses, provide jobs, buy expensive things, which are build by people who are employed, pay more taxes than millions of poor put together, so yea, they do, even if you do not like it. but i'm pretty sure the only reason you do not like it is because you are not one of them, but you could have been if you pushed yourself harder, and made different choices in life

You can assume anything you want about me, but remember it is an assumption.  Do the oil companies do the best for society or for their profits?  Can you really claim that they are good for society when they destroy so much?  And why are you on the offensive?  Did my questions hit a nerve?  I ask questions, usually to create balance as there is very little balance because people do not ask questions.  If you are triggered by a question then you have something to think about, whether you attempt to answer the question or not is irrelevant.

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aztek
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

You can assume anything you want about me, but remember it is an assumption.  Do the oil companies do the best for society or for their profits?  Can you really claim that they are good for society when they destroy so much?  And why are you on the offensive?  Did my questions hit a nerve?  I ask questions, usually to create balance as there is very little balance because people do not ask questions.  If you are triggered by a question then you have something to think about, whether you attempt to answer the question or not is irrelevant.

you can assume i'm triggered, but remember it is an assumption.  

yes oil companies too, we need oil whether you like it or not, oil is used in thousands of ways besides fuel.  employs millions of people,  how do poor contribute?

you are hung on a fallacy that all people are equal, well they are not.

Edited by aztek
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Desertrat56
1 minute ago, aztek said:

you can assume i'm triggered, but remember it is an assumption.  

yes oil companies too, we need oil whether you like it or not, oil is used in thousands of ways besides fuel.  employs millions of people,  how do poor contribute?

Perhaps the poor could contribute more if there was not such a disparity, but I as far as contributing to society, the middle class is the largest contributor, not the rich.

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aztek
4 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Perhaps the poor could contribute more if there was not such a disparity, but I as far as contributing to society, the middle class is the largest contributor, not the rich.

if they could they would, they would be either middle class or rich, they are poor not because of disparity, they just do not want to put enough effort,   not all people have it in them. as multiple lotto winners proved,  even having millions can't change that

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Desertrat56
5 minutes ago, aztek said:

if they could they would, they would be either middle class or rich, they are poor not because of disparity, they just do not want to put enough effort,   not all people have it in them. as multiple lotto winners proved,  even having millions can't change that

Yes, I suppose it would look that way from the top of your tower.  Lazy doesn't have anything to do with how much money you have or don't have.  It is actually more expensive to be poor in the United States and I suspect that is true in all the UK empire countries.

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RabidMongoose
36 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Are you sure those who do the most for society are the ones getting rewarded monetarily?  Are you sure the people who have all the money are doing "the most" for society? 

Yes 100% sure.

A doctor, an accountant, a HR manager, a IT manager, they are all decent jobs with decent wages. That provide essential skills unlike stamp lickers and deserve their higher wages. Business owners deserve even more.

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Desertrat56
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Yes 100% sure.

A doctor, an accountant, a HR manager, a IT manager, they are all decent jobs with decent wages. That provide essential skills unlike stamp lickers and deserve their higher wages. Business owners deserve even more.

So you are not talking about CEO, CFO of major corporations that rake in millions a year to sit at the top of a tower?  The people who provide the most useful services are the ones who keep the streets clean and in repair, the pllumbers and electricians, the laborers that are hired by the contractors....  I don't think they get enough compensation compared to the HR Manager (who by the way can take a company down with bad practices - I have seen it done).  The title of manager is not always given to the person who is actually contributing "the most" in a company.

Edited by Desertrat56
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aztek
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Yes, I suppose it would look that way from the top of your tower.  

how high do you think my tower is?   do you think i was born there, or made it up to the top myself? and even if i was born there do you think i'd still be there if i was not doing what it takes to remain there?

Edited by aztek

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aztek
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

So you are not talking about CEO, CFO of major corporations that rake in millions a year to sit at the top of a tower?  The people who provide the most useful services are the ones who keep the streets clean and in repair, the pllumbers and electricians, the laborers that are hired by the contractors....  I don't think they get enough compensation compared to the HR Manager (who by the way can take a company down with bad practices - I have seen it done).  The title of manager is not always given to the person who is actually contributing "the most" in a company.

i can argue that some IT\HR managers do very little and highly overpaid. 

Edited by aztek

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Desertrat56
3 minutes ago, aztek said:

how high do you think my tower is?   do you think i was born there, or made it up to the top myself? and even if i was born there do you think i'd still be there if i was not doing what it takes to remain there?

It doesn't matter how you got there or how long you have been.  You obviously have never been so poor you can't pay for car insurance without sacrificing something else, which you have to have the car insurance in order to get to your job because the city you live in has very minimal public transportation.  Paying for car insurance monthly costs a lot more than paying annually.  Also everything cost more if you have no credit or bad credit, which may or may not be because of bad choices.  Sometimes the bad choice is trusting a family member, sometimes you just never earn enough to get credit.  There are so may ways that poor people pay more than middle class or rich people.  You can Never assume that ALL poor poeple are poor because they are ALL lazy, which is what you said. 

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Desertrat56
6 minutes ago, aztek said:

i can argue that some IT managers do very little and highly overpaid. 

How about the teachers, do you think any kind of manager is more important than the people who are charged with teaching your children what they need to know in order to get a good job or at the very least graduate from school?  What about the nurses and technicians who take care of people in hospitals?  Don't they deserve a better wage than any manager because of how much they contribute to society?  And the firemen? 

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aztek
3 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

It doesn't matter how you got there or how long you have been.  You obviously have never been so poor you can't pay for car insurance without sacrificing something else, which you have to have the car insurance in order to get to your job because the city you live in has very minimal public transportation.  Paying for car insurance monthly costs a lot more than paying annually.  Also everything cost more if you have no credit or bad credit, which may or may not be because of bad choices.  Sometimes the bad choice is trusting a family member, sometimes you just never earn enough to get credit.  There are so may ways that poor people pay more than middle class or rich people.  You can Never assume that ALL poor poeple are poor because they are ALL lazy, which is what you said. 

not sure what your point is.  that i have to feel sorry for not being poor????  well, i definitely will not,  everything i have i worked hard for it, not looked for excuses,  i looked for ways,  if you actually knew where i came from you'd bite your tongue for saying stupid things you say.

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aztek
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

How about the teachers, do you think any kind of manager is more important than the people who are charged with teaching your children what they need to know in order to get a good job or at the very least graduate from school?  What about the nurses and technicians who take care of people in hospitals?  Don't they deserve a better wage than any manager because of how much they contribute to society?  And the firemen? 

idk, looking at what is going on in schools today, and what kind of mindset kids come from schools now, it is hard to say

it is pretty simple concept, if you think you are not paid enough improve yourself and get a better job, fairness concept does not apply here, it is all in their hands

Edited by aztek

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Desertrat56
Just now, aztek said:

not sure what your point is.  that i have to feel sorry for not being poor????  well, i definitely will not,  everything i have i worked hard for it, not looked for excuses,  i looked for ways,  if you actually knew where i came from you'd bite your tongue for saying stupid things you say.

It is not helpful to feel sorry for anyone, it is also not helpful to make general assumptions about why someone is poor just because you have a different experience.  Like I said before, you said poor people are poor because they are lazy.  You used a different term but it means the same thing.  And you used managers as examples of being more worthy of compensation than others.  Both of those make you seem ignorant to the realities of who is actually contributing to society and who isn't.

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aztek
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

It is not helpful to feel sorry for anyone, it is also not helpful to make general assumptions about why someone is poor just because you have a different experience.  Like I said before, you said poor people are poor because they are lazy.  You used a different term but it means the same thing.  And you used managers as examples of being more worthy of compensation than others.  Both of those make you seem ignorant to the realities of who is actually contributing to society and who isn't.

you decided to give my words your own meaning, and that is the problem, you think you know better what i mean than i do myself, and that is just plan wrong, and stupid, you obviously look for excuses to justify your fallacy of views.

not wanting enough, and not having what it takes does NOT mean lazy.  if you can't comprehend that ,why are you even talking about it? math is not your only weak side i see,

Edited by aztek

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Desertrat56
6 minutes ago, aztek said:

you decided to give my words your own meaning, and that is the problem, you think you know better what i mean than i do myself, and that is just plan wrong, and stupid, you obviously look for excuses to justify your fallacy of views.

not wanting enough, and not having what it takes does NOT mean lazy.  if you can't comprehend that ,why are you even talking about it? math is not your only weak side i see,

So, define what it means to you then.  "not having what it takes" may be accurate taken literally, and I admit  I did not take it literally, I took it as you feeling superior to others.  Maybe I was wrong, only you know that.

What does it take? And why do you think getting a management job contributes more than what you would consider a lesser job, like a nurse or a fireman or the person that answers the phone for the manager?  Can you imagine how society could function without those people?  Would the office run as smoothly if there were no janitor and people had to spend a little time cleaning up after themselves and deciding whose turn it is to scrub the toilets?  Maybe, depending on the people in the office.

 

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RAyMO

Without the poor low wage earners there would be no obscenely rich individuals or businesses. Anyone or company who makes money of the labour of others should at the very least be required to be pay decent (not minimum) wages. If a company can't afford to pay decent wages then it can't afford to take a profit.

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