XenoFish Posted May 15, 2019 #1 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Why do you believe in the supernatural, paranormal, and/or spiritual? What do you gain from such a belief/s ? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted May 15, 2019 #2 Share Posted May 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Why do you believe in the supernatural, paranormal, and/or spiritual? Because I haven't found a reason not to. 2 minutes ago, XenoFish said: What do you gain from such a belief/s ? Supreme joy and happiness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Not A Rockstar Posted May 15, 2019 #3 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Because this is a true story,. I was there, so was the guy who tried to kill me, and so was Someone or Something else. Not gonna debate it. It is what it is. It happened to me just the way I tell the tale. There is a lot more but this says enough. 5 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep73 Posted May 15, 2019 #4 Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Will Due said: Supreme joy and happiness. I think everybody should walk the path that makes them happy. For me it's knowledge and evidence, for you it's faith. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted May 15, 2019 #5 Share Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, XenoFish said: Why do you believe in the supernatural, paranormal, and/or spiritual? From the accumulated weight of all the evidence and argumentation. 2 hours ago, XenoFish said: What do you gain from such a belief/s ? From the spiritual side I have gained a continued state of eternal being-awareness-bliss above all the material events. This manifests in more love, peace, contentment, happiness, etc. in my mental world. That is the greatest thing one can ever gain from anything. Edited May 15, 2019 by papageorge1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesjr191 Posted May 15, 2019 #6 Share Posted May 15, 2019 I dont actually subscribe to belief in any of the items youve mentioned. I find the topics very interesting and always have an open ear and mind to discuss possibilities. That is until some idiot demands they have all the hidden truths and knowledge but no proof of any of it. (That just p***es me off) It would be awesome to finally have some facts revealed that truly offer an insight into these phenomena. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted May 15, 2019 #7 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Just now, jamesjr191 said: I dont actually subscribe to belief in any of the items youve mentioned. I find the topics very interesting and always have an open ear and mind to discuss possibilities. That is until some idiot demands they have all the hidden truths and knowledge but no proof of any of it. (That just p***es me off) It would be awesome to finally have some facts revealed that truly offer an insight into these phenomena. I agree. To the bold, we have no facts and i doubt there will ever be any. For the amount of people who believe in a the paranormal , no evidence has ever been brought forward to provide any facts it exists. We no longer burn women at the stake for allegedly being witches, but many did believe in this kind of culture not that long ago. Remember the old belief "if she drowns, she is not a witch, if she floats, she is a witch and must be killed". As for numbers of believers, numbers do not make a fact, it just shows how gullible or sensitive people can be. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep73 Posted May 15, 2019 #8 Share Posted May 15, 2019 21 minutes ago, papageorge1 said: From the accumulated weight of all the evidence I've looked at the website you referred to in another thread, when you mentioned evidence. It isn't evidence. It is - at best - circumstantial evidence, meaning it can point in many directions, depending on the bias you have to begin with. Without any bias it points nowhere. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted May 15, 2019 #9 Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 hour ago, sci-nerd said: I think everybody should walk the path that makes them happy. For me it's knowledge and evidence, for you it's faith. And it really IS as simple as this- or should be. Believers have no right nor need to harangue or hassle nonbelievers. We ARE called to share the good news but that's all. And sharing doesn't mean berating or beating people over the head with it. It just means telling what we understand to be truly good news that we believe others might like to know of. After that, everyone has a choice and the responsibility for it. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted May 15, 2019 #10 Share Posted May 15, 2019 23 minutes ago, sci-nerd said: I've looked at the website you referred to in another thread, when you mentioned evidence. It isn't evidence. It is - at best - circumstantial evidence, meaning it can point in many directions, depending on the bias you have to begin with. Without any bias it points nowhere. And there are a thousand and one stories I've heard like 'Not a Rockstar' shared above. And all the evidence I've seen points/dovetails to a consistent model of reality that I hold. I see not even a close second option at this point. I believe what is most reasonable to believe after full consideration. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep73 Posted May 15, 2019 #11 Share Posted May 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, papageorge1 said: And there are a thousand and one stories I've heard like 'Not a Rockstar' shared above. And all the evidence I've seen points/dovetails to a consistent model of reality that I hold. I see not even a close second option at this point. I believe what is most reasonable to believe after full consideration. Amen to that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted May 15, 2019 #12 Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 minute ago, sci-nerd said: Amen to that! Amen to reason! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaikou Posted May 15, 2019 #13 Share Posted May 15, 2019 For me it comes from experiences, so far throughout my life I've had somewhere in the region of 20 experiences in one way or another. While I can't say with all certainty they were all supernatural, there came a point where I started thinking "maybe there's something to this". As for what these beliefs give me... Not very much, aside from intrigue. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep73 Posted May 15, 2019 #14 Share Posted May 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, papageorge1 said: Amen to reason! What I said "amen" to was 7 minutes ago, papageorge1 said: And all the evidence I've seen points/dovetails to a consistent model of reality that I hold. I see not even a close second option at this point. I believe what is most reasonable to believe after full consideration. because I've been saying the same thing for three years. My reality model is just virtual instead of spiritual. So it seems we think similar, but have reached very different conclusions. Mine comes from studying all the sciences, and I guess yours comes from paranormal research? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted May 15, 2019 #15 Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 minute ago, sci-nerd said: What I said "amen" to was because I've been saying the same thing for three years. My reality model is just virtual instead of spiritual. So it seems we think similar, but have reached very different conclusions. Mine comes from studying all the sciences, and I guess yours comes from paranormal research? Well, we don't all come to the same position. We do hold sway over our jurisdiction of one person though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep73 Posted May 15, 2019 #16 Share Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, papageorge1 said: Well, we don't all come to the same position. We do hold sway over our jurisdiction of one person though. I should add: My conclusion only stands until a better one is found. If ever. That is what I love most about science. New evidence can turn it all upside down. There are no dogmas. Even things that have been proven countless times are called theories, because new proof could show up any time, and force you to rethink it all, Edited May 15, 2019 by sci-nerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted May 15, 2019 Author #17 Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 hour ago, and then said: Believers have no right nor need to harangue or hassle nonbelievers. We ARE called to share the good news but that's all. Anyone else seeing what I'm seeing with this quote? 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep73 Posted May 15, 2019 #18 Share Posted May 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Anyone else seeing what I'm seeing with this quote? That they are obliged to share fake news?? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted May 15, 2019 Author #19 Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 minute ago, sci-nerd said: That they are obliged to share fake news?? Hypocrisy. 57 minutes ago, Kaikou said: For me it comes from experiences, so far throughout my life I've had somewhere in the region of 20 experiences in one way or another. While I can't say with all certainty they were all supernatural, there came a point where I started thinking "maybe there's something to this". As for what these beliefs give me... Not very much, aside from intrigue. I'm not much different from you but I don't trust a single one of my experiences as being objectively "real". 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep73 Posted May 15, 2019 #20 Share Posted May 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, XenoFish said: I don't trust a single one of my experiences as being objectively "real". Maybe because they aren't https://www.technologyreview.com/s/613092/a-quantum-experiment-suggests-theres-no-such-thing-as-objective-reality/ Shortly the article is about measuring a particle's spin twice, Or opening the box with Schródinger's cat twice. This new experiment shows that a dead cat does not stay dead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted May 15, 2019 Author #21 Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 minute ago, sci-nerd said: Maybe because they aren't https://www.technologyreview.com/s/613092/a-quantum-experiment-suggests-theres-no-such-thing-as-objective-reality/ Shortly the article is about measuring a particle's spin twice, Or opening the box with Schródinger's cat twice. This new experiment shows that a dead cat does not stay dead. Then maybe I'm freaking insane. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep73 Posted May 15, 2019 #22 Share Posted May 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Then maybe I'm freaking insane. No, I meant the opposite. You subjective reality does not make you less sane. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted May 15, 2019 #23 Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 hour ago, sci-nerd said: I should add: My conclusion only stands until a better one is found. If ever. That is what I love most about science. New evidence can turn it all upside down. There are no dogmas. Even things that have been proven countless times are called theories, because new proof could show up any time, and force you to rethink it all, I agree and in my spiritual beliefs I am beholden to no dogma either. I can upgrade my understanding at anytime based on reason and argumentation. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted May 15, 2019 Author #24 Share Posted May 15, 2019 31 minutes ago, sci-nerd said: No, I meant the opposite. You subjective reality does not make you less sane. What I see and experience is never going to be exactly the same as someone else. Neither will they see that same thing I see. Yet there is some common "reality" that causes us to have similar experiences. The problem (or not) is that I can not take my experiences as a literal truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep73 Posted May 15, 2019 #25 Share Posted May 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, XenoFish said: What I see and experience is never going to be exactly the same as someone else. Neither will they see that same thing I see. Yet there is some common "reality" that causes us to have similar experiences. The problem (or not) is that I can not take my experiences as a literal truth. There is no absolute truth to be achieved for a human being. And that is good news. Because it means that there is room for everyone's truth. The difference between them is the evidence. But even that is a matter of interpretation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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