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XenoFish

A question of faith.

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XenoFish

In magick we express our intentions and desires through symbolic rituals, symbol sets, affirmations, and incantations, even prayers. This creates a meaningful coincidence, not so much through some woo, but in the mind. Our thoughts geared on a subconscious level towards the very thing we wish, unintentionally seeking out our desired outcome. Creating meaningful coincidences, only because those events are meaningful to us. Because they are meaningful to us. A subconscious gps of intention.

Sorry, random thoughts in regards to my past.

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Desertrat56

I don't have blind faith, I have experiences that don't translate to physical or brain chemistry or imagination but I have no proof for anyone else.  I know some things and one is that there is more to us conscious being in human bodies on planet earth than just physical and some day science may prove it or not.  I get why some insist we are only physical beings and that anything mystical that we experience is either chemicals or neurons in the brain, but using science as the excuse to insist is wrong because real scientists don't, they admit that they don't know everything yet.

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sci-nerd
23 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I don't have blind faith, I have experiences that don't translate to physical or brain chemistry or imagination but I have no proof for anyone else.  I know some things and one is that there is more to us conscious being in human bodies on planet earth than just physical and some day science may prove it or not.  I get why some insist we are only physical beings and that anything mystical that we experience is either chemicals or neurons in the brain, but using science as the excuse to insist is wrong because real scientists don't, they admit that they don't know everything yet.

Very true. When we scientists search for the truth, we ignore things that can't be measured. Subjectivity is unwanted.
But we have to continue that path, because it is the scientific method.
What we could do better in the future is broaden our methods of measuring. Take the "unusual" more serious.

True knowledge is beyond science. We only have axioms that tells very little of the nature of reality.
But that is also true for the spiritual people. They are guessing even more than we do.

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Kaikou
3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I'm not much different from you but I don't trust a single one of my experiences as being objectively "real". 

Don't get me wrong, I don't trust them exactly. I'm just not at a point where I can rule them out entirely.
I guess if I had to explain things in a bit more detail, It would come down to this: I don't believe in dieties or the typical idea of an afterlife. To me these things seem very... Human.
To me they seem like something that would come from the mind of a creature that is not only scared of its mortality but also hopes that there is something beyond this world that justifies the horrors of everything that they've
 experienced leading up to death.

With that being said, I've had around six precognative dreams all of which have come true despite how low the odds of them occuring are.
On top of that I've had a couple of "poltergeist" experiences (that have left me scratching my head). For example: watching a door that has nothing wrong with it open at the handle without anyone being on the other side of it.
In 2014 I spent 7 months believing I was developing some kind of mental illness because I would hear a voice coming out of thin air in my home that would either shout abuse at me or randomly moan or groan.
At one point after thinking I was entirely mad I caught it accidentally in an audio recording, which added some validity to my experience (for me at least).


I can't say that I have any "evidence" to support any of this (I know, extremely "conveinient"), however If I've questioned one thing it's this:
What is "evidence" these days?

A picture means nothing, anyone with a cheap computer can manipulate it. There are computer programs that can manipulate an image extremely well using free software like gimp.
Caught something in a video? How do we know it wasn't edited in a free piece of software like hitfilm express? (Something that gives you the power and ability to edit AND composite footage using professional grade tech).
Caught something on audio? Well even the demo version of Reaper esentially gives you access to an entire digital recording studio without paying a penny and allows for inifite possibilities when it comes to editting sound.

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Desertrat56
14 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

Very true. When we scientists search for the truth, we ignore things that can't be measured. Subjectivity is unwanted.
But we have to continue that path, because it is the scientific method.
What we could do better in the future is broaden our methods of measuring. Take the "unusual" more serious.

True knowledge is beyond science. We only have axioms that tells very little of the nature of reality.
But that is also true for the spiritual people. They are guessing even more than we do.

When I was a kid I knew that some people are telepathic, I felt I was, though it was trained out of me.  I  knew my brother was because he did not talk until I couldn't "translate" for him when he wanted or needed something.  I designed an experiment with 3 of my cousins and based on the results of that experiment as simplistic as it was I concluded that younger children are more likely telepathic and my guess is that they have not been told it is not possible.  After about the age of 12 I didn't really think about it, but when I was 17 we had an old dog that we got as a puppy when I was 3.  She would wake me up at night when she needed to go out.  One night I woke up with the word "water" in my mind.  There was the dog staring at me.  I got up and found that the water bowl was empty, so I filled it.  I asked her "Why do you only wake me up."  The response I got was "you are the only one that listens".  That is another thing people discount is the intelligence of dogs and other animals.  They don't have language like we do but dogs do understand our language if they are part of the family.

One more anecdote.  I had a boss at one job (the worst job I ever had) that was crazy (literally) but she was the manager and she had not been manager long when I was waiting in the hall with her to go in to a meeting and I saw that she was pregnant.  It was not a physical seeing, I didn't understand why, but I knew.  It turns out it was on her mind because she was so afraid someone would find out.  A couple of days later I chastised her for not taking care of herself and her baby.  She was shocked and thought someone had told me.  I was shocked that she was keeping it a secret.  The thing is, if you have a secret and you obsess over it being found out, it is in your mind all the time.  A telepath does not read minds, a telepath picks up thoughts, not words, but the whole ball that is a thought before it becomes words.    Like I said before I have no proof of any of it for anyone else.  

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psyche101
2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I agree and in my spiritual beliefs I am beholden to no dogma either. I can upgrade my understanding at anytime based on reason and argumentation.

I seriously doubt that. Everytime reason raises its head you tend to hit the road. You're more a hit and run poster with no more than the usual guff one hears anyplace on the Internet with paranormal enthusiasts. 

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papageorge1
1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

I seriously doubt that. Everytime reason raises its head you tend to hit the road. You're more a hit and run poster with no more than the usual guff one hears anyplace on the Internet with paranormal enthusiasts. 

I actually pride myself on reason (seriously).

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XenoFish

I had faith in my words. For some reason things would typically go my way. Never perfect but good enough. If I need something I seem to just get it. I needed a lot of money to deal with a issue a few years ago. Bad times, but I got it. Started receive loan offers, got set back at one bank, got a loan at another. At the end of it all I got the money and the results that were close enough to what I needed. It only took a few years to pay all that off. The thing is for me. Is that if I state something with conviction, something realistic, it just happens. Not all the time, not perfectly. One of the oddest moments I've had with this is with my mother. I needed another cellphone charger because mine was broke. Just thinking about this while at work, not 10 minutes later my mother shows up asking me if I wanted her old charger. When I was really into more mental magick, stuff like that was common. I'm sure it's all psychology, but a lot of those times I had to wonder.

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tcgram

I believe in the spiritual because it is the one thing that I've found that grounds me.   Faith in God helps me through the twists and turns that life throws my way.   I pray and meditate to keep my focus on Christ and I strive to be more like Him.   I try to practice humility, love and respect for others.   

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psyche101
2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I actually pride myself on reason (seriously).

What sort of reason? If you consider the paranormal as a given then you use that as evidence for your views and claims, but this isn't one of those all religious forums where posters have no critical thought processes. People think here at UM. Well some do anyway. 

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papageorge1
35 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

What sort of reason? If you consider the paranormal as a given then you use that as evidence for your views and claims, but this isn't one of those all religious forums where posters have no critical thought processes. People think here at UM. Well some do anyway. 

The paranormal is not a given but supported by evidence.

So your point?

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Aquila King
35 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

People think here at UM. Well some do anyway. 

 

images_919893.jpg

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Aquila King
11 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Why do you believe in the supernatural, paranormal, and/or spiritual?

I'm merely open to the possibility. Why? Cause I don't currently know, and to believe something one way or the other without proper knowledge on the topic woukd be stupid of me.

11 hours ago, XenoFish said:

What do you gain from such a belief/s ?

Nothing really. No matter whether any of it's true or not, imma live my life however the **** I want regardless.

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darkmoonlady
15 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Why do you believe in the supernatural, paranormal, and/or spiritual?

What do you gain from such a belief/s ?

Well supernatural and paranormal are weird descriptors in that supernatural is something outside of nature or unnatural, same with the term paranormal, it's supposedly something outside the normal and therefore "unexplainable". I believe in science and don't discount experiences as possibly for the time being not measured by science yet. I can't say that if someone sees or experiences something it didn't happen just because it is outside the understanding of science. Between technology and time we may eventually find perfectly scientific explanations for those experiences. Spiritual I think science has already begun to figure out a bit , at least what makes people feel "spiritual" from a scientific standpoint. Endorphins, brain activity in certain areas it's a combination of explainable physiological reactions that makes people feel something they attribute to spirituality, it makes them feel good. 

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psyche101
4 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

The paranormal is not a given but supported by evidence.

So your point?

My point is the plural of anecdote is not evidence. 

The paranormal is not supported by evidence. If it was, it would be called 'science' not 'the paranormal'. 

Even your claims of being a person of reason are not supported by evidence. 

Your support of any claim is directly proportional to its ridiculousness. The more ridiculous a claim is, the more you support it. That's the real PG scale. 

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papageorge1
7 hours ago, psyche101 said:

The more ridiculous a claim is, the more you support it. 

Now that is a ridiculous claim.

After that, I'm not so motivated to re-explain the meanings of the word 'evidence'.

 

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XenoFish

I really don't care about this Psyche-George argument. Doesn't add anything to my thread. At least anything most of us already knew.

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Hammerclaw
22 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I really don't care about this Psyche-George argument. Doesn't add anything to my thread. At least anything most of us already knew.

It's like watching two blind men dueling with pistols. 

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XenoFish
9 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

It's like watching two blind men dueling with pistols. 

It's monotonous.

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Liquid Gardens
23 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I'm not much different from you but I don't trust a single one of my experiences as being objectively "real". 

I'm somewhat similar, I've had several experiences that I think I could be interpreted as something paranormal but I don't know how one ever rules out misinterpretation, given that the majority of paranormal claims rely entirely on the accuracy of another person's interpretation.  Given that, defaulting to the non-paranormal seems consistent with how I and I thought everyone else deals with things like that; I woke up for work a day this week a little later than I planned, my alarm was not set, I don't think it's reasonable to count that as evidence that a ghost turned off my alarm, I don't remember but I'm going with I forgot to set it.

I'm perpetually stuck though between two poles.  It seems logical/obvious that there is still more to discover about reality, maybe some very large scale truths remain unknown to us simply due to their nature which we may not be readily equipped to sense easily.  Who knows, but regardless the idea that we know it all now seems unsupported.  That opens up to all kinds of possibilities, if even just time doesn't operate how we think it does, pretty much all bets are off on trying to refute what we call the paranormal.  The other pole though, for me, is that I seem to disbelieve every specific claim I've heard about the paranormal; collapsing from the realm of open possibility to 'psychic powers' or 'demons' puts me at the other end, I've never seen a paranormal conclusion I thought was supported by the evidence nor one that I didn't think there was a more mundane explanation for.  I guess I'm currently at, 'anything's possible... well, except for that'.

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XenoFish
29 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I'm somewhat similar, I've had several experiences that I think I could be interpreted as something paranormal but I don't know how one ever rules out misinterpretation, given that the majority of paranormal claims rely entirely on the accuracy of another person's interpretation.  Given that, defaulting to the non-paranormal seems consistent with how I and I thought everyone else deals with things like that; I woke up for work a day this week a little later than I planned, my alarm was not set, I don't think it's reasonable to count that as evidence that a ghost turned off my alarm, I don't remember but I'm going with I forgot to set it.

I'm perpetually stuck though between two poles.  It seems logical/obvious that there is still more to discover about reality, maybe some very large scale truths remain unknown to us simply due to their nature which we may not be readily equipped to sense easily.  Who knows, but regardless the idea that we know it all now seems unsupported.  That opens up to all kinds of possibilities, if even just time doesn't operate how we think it does, pretty much all bets are off on trying to refute what we call the paranormal.  The other pole though, for me, is that I seem to disbelieve every specific claim I've heard about the paranormal; collapsing from the realm of open possibility to 'psychic powers' or 'demons' puts me at the other end, I've never seen a paranormal conclusion I thought was supported by the evidence nor one that I didn't think there was a more mundane explanation for.  I guess I'm currently at, 'anything's possible... well, except for that'.

My biggest question isn't ghost or god/s, psychic powers, nothing like that. It's coincidence. Those moments where you might have thought about something and there it is. Maybe you wrote down something that you'd like to have or find, and not to long after you have it or find it. That to me is just so odd. 

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Liquid Gardens
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

My biggest question isn't ghost or god/s, psychic powers, nothing like that. It's coincidence. Those moments where you might have thought about something and there it is. Maybe you wrote down something that you'd like to have or find, and not to long after you have it or find it. That to me is just so odd. 

It is definitely cool when a coincidence like that occurs, and it is the right path towards demonstrating a lot of the paranormal, we're just trying to find something clearly beyond coincidence to help demonstrate that.  This isn't necessarily paranormal but the theory that perhaps the act of writing it down led unconsciously to you finding it after is pretty amazing in itself; if I've read you right, that sounds similar to some of things you've said about 'magick' and how it may tap into something psychological and can actually 'work', whether or not there is actually any 'real' magic behind it.

Coincidences though I'm always a little unsure about due to what I think is our natural inability to really get much of a handle on probabilities.  One in a million occurrences are happening to thousands of people on earth right now just due to our numbers.  It is still cool when it happens though, there's something that feels deeper about it.  And I think you and I agree that, to the extent there is any such thing as 'meaning', that it is something we each make for ourselves.  I see no reason then not to find as much meaning as we want to in coincidences.

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XenoFish
40 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

It is definitely cool when a coincidence like that occurs, and it is the right path towards demonstrating a lot of the paranormal, we're just trying to find something clearly beyond coincidence to help demonstrate that.  This isn't necessarily paranormal but the theory that perhaps the act of writing it down led unconsciously to you finding it after is pretty amazing in itself; if I've read you right, that sounds similar to some of things you've said about 'magick' and how it may tap into something psychological and can actually 'work', whether or not there is actually any 'real' magic behind it.

Coincidences though I'm always a little unsure about due to what I think is our natural inability to really get much of a handle on probabilities.  One in a million occurrences are happening to thousands of people on earth right now just due to our numbers.  It is still cool when it happens though, there's something that feels deeper about it.  And I think you and I agree that, to the extent there is any such thing as 'meaning', that it is something we each make for ourselves.  I see no reason then not to find as much meaning as we want to in coincidences.

https://www.livescience.com/43105-synchronicity-definition-meaning.html

I mean I understand what I coincidence is. I just find those "slapped in the face" moments to be interesting. Had a lot of them when I used to practice intention-manifestation and sigils. Hell, to be honest I still have them. As I've mentioned before, it's meaningful to you (used in general), because it is meaningful to you. 

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Hammerclaw
22 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I had faith in my words. For some reason things would typically go my way. Never perfect but good enough. If I need something I seem to just get it. I needed a lot of money to deal with a issue a few years ago. Bad times, but I got it. Started receive loan offers, got set back at one bank, got a loan at another. At the end of it all I got the money and the results that were close enough to what I needed. It only took a few years to pay all that off. The thing is for me. Is that if I state something with conviction, something realistic, it just happens. Not all the time, not perfectly. One of the oddest moments I've had with this is with my mother. I needed another cellphone charger because mine was broke. Just thinking about this while at work, not 10 minutes later my mother shows up asking me if I wanted her old charger. When I was really into more mental magick, stuff like that was common. I'm sure it's all psychology, but a lot of those times I had to wonder.

Carl Yung coined the Term, Synchronicity for such coincidence and wrote a book about it.

http://carl-jung.net/synchronicity.html

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

Carl Yung coined the Term, Synchronicity for such coincidence and wrote a book about it.

http://carl-jung.net/synchronicity.html

I know. He was kinda of a go-to when I was on various occult forums. He'd come up 99% of the time. 

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