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Why is the Pentagon interested in UFOs ?

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Golden Duck
47 minutes ago, Timothy said:

Oh god. It's a Tom Delonge and TTSA series. :lol: Popcorn time!

Forgive my cynicism...

From https://www.history.com/shows/unidentified-inside-americas-ufo-investigation/about : 'The series will reveal newly authenticated evidence and footage, interviews from eyewitnesses and former military personnel who have never spoken out before, and extensive breakthroughs in understanding the technology behind these unknown phenomena in our skies.'

No Tom. No.

I have a list of special interest viewing to get through first.

But I can't hardly wait for that one.

 

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Timothy
5 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

I have a list of special interest viewing to get through first.

But I can't hardly wait for that one.

 

I'm impressed and thankful for this. Lol!

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Minimalists

Here's an interview Mellon done:

https://www.history.com/news/chris-mellon-ufo-investigations

Here we are some 72 years later after Roswell and other well known incidents and they are just now considering UFOs to be a National Security risks....Yet that hasn't been proven to be a fact.

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Sir Smoke aLot
Posted (edited)

In the early days of rocketry competition and fear were catalyst for advances, in cold war especially. Now we can expect (if there are no prototypes already) many new advances in control of space around the Earth. Seems very much alike to strives for control of the atmosphere back then in times of cold war when many UFO's were sighted. UFO's are byproduct of such race.

Edited by Sir Smoke aLot
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stereologist
15 hours ago, bison said:

If you're suggesting that Secretary Mellon said something untrue in order to receive a financial reward, or to financially benefit the History Channel, I hope you have substantial evidence to back that up.

I believe the statement is that his unsupported opinion was used to garner money.

What has he proposed other than his opinion? What is there to his opinion other than an appeal to authority?

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Minimalists
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, stereologist said:

I believe the statement is that his unsupported opinion was used to garner money.

What has he proposed other than his opinion? What is there to his opinion other than an appeal to authority?

Quote

What is there to his opinion other than an appeal to authority?

And that is all it's based on....There again it goes back to our human biology..We think that because some one has a badge or a fancy title before their name, their testimony is some how better...It's not. It's all bad because we are human....At least according to my man Neil Degrasse Tyson whom if you have ever him speak on UFOs.

Edited by Alien Origins
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bison

The Department of Defense is known to have long taken an interest in Unidentified Flying Objects. It seems reasonable, then, that a Secretary of that department, with a specialization in matters of intelligence, had access to some of this information.

The charge is, then, that Secretary Mellon is a poseur, who doesn't have knowledge to back up his statements, and that his opinion is no more informative than that of any random person.  I've seen no evidence that this charge is correct, merely proclamations that this is the case.   

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Timothy
33 minutes ago, bison said:

The Department of Defense is known to have long taken an interest in Unidentified Flying Objects. It seems reasonable, then, that a Secretary of that department, with a specialization in matters of intelligence, had access to some of this information.

The charge is, then, that Secretary Mellon is a poseur, who doesn't have knowledge to back up his statements, and that his opinion is no more informative than that of any random person.  I've seen no evidence that this charge is correct, merely proclamations that this is the case.   

Have you seen any evidence though, that his opinion is correct? (I mean real evidence, not the stuff you might consider as evidence, which isn’t actually evidence of anything.)

That’s the bit you should focus on.

And the true answer is a big fat NOPE.

Looking forward to discussing the Tom Delonge History Channel show, after it airs.  

He doesn’t have evidence of anything you’re alluding to. No one probably will in your lifetime here. 

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Minimalists
50 minutes ago, bison said:

The Department of Defense is known to have long taken an interest in Unidentified Flying Objects. It seems reasonable, then, that a Secretary of that department, with a specialization in matters of intelligence, had access to some of this information.

The charge is, then, that Secretary Mellon is a poseur, who doesn't have knowledge to back up his statements, and that his opinion is no more informative than that of any random person.  I've seen no evidence that this charge is correct, merely proclamations that this is the case.   

Quote

The Department of Defense is known to have long taken an interest in Unidentified Flying Objects.

I believe that would only be in the interest of national security.

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Timothy
2 minutes ago, Alien Origins said:

I believe that would only be in the interest of national security.

It’s glaringly simple hey!

Any serious and substantial body would definitely consider UFO’s as a matter of national security. 

But that don’t mean little green men. 

As I've said before; the USA was able to relatively comfortably sit back in a position of superiority at a time. But these days, any number of other countries could potentially have developed something new and unknown.

So, interest and documentation of UFO’s (or whatever terminology someone wants to use) is a must. That is not rocket science @bison.

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stereologist
1 hour ago, bison said:

The Department of Defense is known to have long taken an interest in Unidentified Flying Objects. It seems reasonable, then, that a Secretary of that department, with a specialization in matters of intelligence, had access to some of this information.

The charge is, then, that Secretary Mellon is a poseur, who doesn't have knowledge to back up his statements, and that his opinion is no more informative than that of any random person.  I've seen no evidence that this charge is correct, merely proclamations that this is the case.   

Can you point out anything other than unsupported opinion has been stated by Mellon.

You brought this guy into the discussion. It's nice to pretend that the burden is on others to point out that he nothing more than an appeal to authority. The burden is on you since you think this person has brought something of interest to the table.

Unless you want to point something of interest out I see no reason to show that he has offered nothing new other than his personal opinion.

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stereologist

A matter of national security is possibly training. Why are pilots having trouble identifying the mundane? Do they need further training? Can this be enough of a distraction to undermine their ability to complete their assigned tasks?

If you want to move this to the world of car traffic, the question becomes "Are there changes that can be made to make drivers less likely to get into accidents?" That's a national safety issue.

Because these pilots are involved in national security their actions or inactions involve national security. 

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Dumbledore the Awesome
13 hours ago, stereologist said:

A matter of national security is possibly training. Why are pilots having trouble identifying the mundane? Do they need further training? Can this be enough of a distraction to undermine their ability to complete their assigned tasks?

If you want to move this to the world of car traffic, the question becomes "Are there changes that can be made to make drivers less likely to get into accidents?" That's a national safety issue.

Because these pilots are involved in national security their actions or inactions involve national security. 

or perhaps they do know what they're talking about, and the fact that they report something that they're not familiar with is something that arouses interest.

It may be that they're not in fact totally stupid.

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stereologist
4 hours ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

or perhaps they do know what they're talking about, and the fact that they report something that they're not familiar with is something that arouses interest.

It may be that they're not in fact totally stupid.

I don't believe anyone is calling anyone totally stupid.

An important task in a mission is FFI, friend or foe identification. In other words, is that one of us or not? If there are problems with FFI then there are problems coordinating the flights.

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Minimalists

If you have ever been in the US military you go through a course of "threat identification"...Now I do not know if it's the same for every branch of the US military but you do go through it. I would imagine for Navy pilots the course is quite extensive.....My guess is, if these pilots are reporting unidentified objects it's most likely real..Is it aliens from another planet? There is no proof of that. 

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stereologist

Apparently I need to restate what I posted earlier.

Quote

An important task in a mission is FFI, friend or foe identification. In other words, is that one of us or not? If there are problems with FFI then there are problems coordinating the flights.

If pilots are reporting unidentified craft it means that the FFI, or as Alien Origins has called it "threat identification", is not identifying all targets. That is a prime component of a mission. Improving a situation in no way suggests that those undergoing training are in any way incompetent. Not quite sure how anyone is coming to that decision.

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Minimalists
Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, stereologist said:

Apparently I need to restate what I posted earlier.

If pilots are reporting unidentified craft it means that the FFI, or as Alien Origins has called it "threat identification", is not identifying all targets. That is a prime component of a mission. Improving a situation in no way suggests that those undergoing training are in any way incompetent. Not quite sure how anyone is coming to that decision.

Quote

Not quite sure how anyone is coming to that decision.

Me either to be honest....My military service was during the early to late 80's and technology has advanced by leaps and bounds since then.....

Edited by Alien Origins
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HollyDolly

The United States government has always been interested in UFOS. How it started, don't know, unless it relates to Roswell, though they were aware of the Foo Fighters of WW2. My  late father said  that our side thought they belonged to the germans, and the germans thought  they were ours. During WW2 he had been a flight crew chief and airplane mechanic and it's possible he might have seen them though i don't recall him mentioning it.

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Minimalists

Project Sign, Grudge and Blue Book all failed to identify any threat to national security.....That would be the Pentagons only interest in this.

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MrBene

I believe they are interested just to change the "unidentified" to "identified". 

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Minimalists
1 hour ago, MrBene said:

I believe they are interested just to change the "unidentified" to "identified". 

Well with the technology we have today that's a possibility..Highly more likely now then it would have been in the 40's, 50's or 60's.

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Captain Risky
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Alien Origins said:

Project Sign, Grudge and Blue Book all failed to identify any threat to national security.....That would be the Pentagons only interest in this.

If they really failed then this wouldn’t really be an issue. They would have provided a logical answer for the phenomenon. end of story.

Edited by Captain Risky

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Captain Risky
On 01/06/2019 at 5:33 AM, stereologist said:

Apparently I need to restate what I posted earlier.

If pilots are reporting unidentified craft it means that the FFI, or as Alien Origins has called it "threat identification", is not identifying all targets. That is a prime component of a mission. Improving a situation in no way suggests that those undergoing training are in any way incompetent. Not quite sure how anyone is coming to that decision.

No you’re just suggesting that it’s a technology problem with the aircraft when in fact it’s not. 

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the13bats
1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

If they really failed then this wouldn’t really be an issue. They would have provided a logical answer for the phenomenon. end of story.

they failed in many ways some rather epic, like ray fowler pointing out his friend j Hynek was a sell out, he had no problem lying to keep his gov job, sad, in turn nothing they said has any credibilty integrity with me,

they did fail to provide any logical or technical evidence that any case of a UFO was either a threat to the USA or an alien craft,  so yeah, the story did end and decades later and still not a grain of proof any UFO is an alien craft.

no, posting hoax pictures is not proof.

 

 

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Minimalists
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

If they really failed then this wouldn’t really be an issue. They would have provided a logical answer for the phenomenon. end of story.

Project Blue Book only failed to identify 700+ sightings but that does not equate to it being alien in nature. Remember what the "U" in UFO stands for. Project Sign which gave its final report in 1949 said that while UFOs appeared to be real there was not enough evidence to determine where they came from or that they were alien in nature....Project Grudge did not last long enough really to determine anything..Most of the researchers that worked on Sign abandon Grudge when they realized that the Pentagon was no longer a sympathetic supporter to the UFO phenomena.

If you look at the trend even with the technology we have today there are still  some incidents that we still can not provide a logical answer for...Does this failure relegate those incidents where we have no explanation for the UFO to it being an alien craft? Nope. It don't..It only means there was not enough information to determine what it was or where it came from. Just because we cannot identify a UFO does not mean we accept the "argument from ignorance" definition. "Oh, we don't know what it is so it must be aliens from another planet!"

It's the "argument from ignorance" that's put the field of Ufology into the pseudoscience category in which it will always stay simply because of all the crackpots, kooks and hoaxers that are out to only make a buck and sell a book...Conspiracy Theories only advance the "oh the government is covering up this or that!"

I can accept the fact that "UFOs" exist, what I cannot accept is the claims made by the kooks, crackpots, hoaxers and conspiracy theorists that they are all aliens from another planet...Basically I need more than just you saw it! And judging by the governments reaction over the last 70+ years they need more than just you saw it...

The government has poured billions of dollars into research and chasing these "UFOs" and what in the way of concrete evidence has it yielded? It has not yielded any evidence that these "UFOs" are aliens from another planet..In order for these things to be a "National Security Threat" there has to be some evidence there is a threat...I get wanting to protect Earth I am all for it, but we face a greater danger from asteroids, solar flares, gamma rays etc from Space than we do "aliens" where there is no proof that aliens are here or even a threat.

Edited by Alien Origins
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