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Eldorado

"Ok to be gay" school lessons cause unrest

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RabidMongoose
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, aztek said:

and at the same time you have freedom of religion that opposes homosexuality strongly, do you see the conflict?

Yes, there is a conflict between them but both Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Sexuality are protected in law in the UK.

That conflict is unreconcilable so the focus should be on creating a society where people with difference values function together properly instead. Schools need to be asking parents if they are okay with children being taught about homosexuality. If the parents arent, their views need to be respected.

The education system doesnt have the legal or moral authority to overrule Freedom of Religion and therefore I suspect when this gets to court the Muslim protestors will win.

Edited by RabidMongoose

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aztek
Posted (edited)

yes they will,  and once precedent is set, other religions will follow, since i can't think of religion where homosexuality is OK,  

if you do not see by now how all those gay protection laws do not really protect gays, quite the opposite actually,  you will soon

Edited by aztek

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XenoFish

I often wonder how many gay people liked it when their life and lifestyle were in the shadows? Just a thought.

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aztek
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I often wonder how many gay people liked it when their life and lifestyle were in the shadows? Just a thought.

increase of violence seem to correlate with lgbt movements and  "protection laws" and it really did increase 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_violence_against_LGBT_people_in_the_United_States

 

Quote

According to a Human Rights Campaign report last year, at least 128 transgender people were killed in the U.S. from 2013 to 2018. Almost 90% of them were women, about 80% were women of color, and almost 70% were black women

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/muhlaysia-booker-transgender-woman-murdered-dallas-115217381.html

Edited by aztek

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darkmoonlady
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, aztek said:

but everyone wont, and you know it,

Well thank you but just because a few people want to remain ignorant bigots doesn't mean they shouldn't teach tolerance. I grew up in the 70's and I'm in a wheelchair and dealt with little elementary kids who needed to be taught to be nice to others with differences like me but there were no such curriculums teaching it. In your opinion should I have just sucked it up when one boy kept coming up behind me while I was pushing my chair outside and flipping my brake so I'd fall out of my chair? It was his goal, he told me so numerous times. Or the parents who didn't want me in the class because they didn't believe disabled kids should be in class with "normal" kids, as some parents told the teacher and my mom on a teacher parent night? Basically your argument is there will what always be terrible people so bother teaching tolerance and acceptance? 

 

Edited by darkmoonlady
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aztek
1 minute ago, darkmoonlady said:

Well thank you but just because a few people want to remain ignorant bigots doesn't mean they shouldn't teach tolerance. I grew up in the 70's and I'm in a wheelchair and dealt with little elementary kids who needed to be taught to be nice to others with differences like me but there were no such curriculums teaching it. In your opinion should I have just sucked it up when one boy kept coming up behind me while I was pushing my chair outside and flipping my brake so I'd fall out of my chair? It was his goal, he told me so numerous times. Or the parents who didn't want me in the class because they didn't believe disabled kids should in class with "normal" kids, as some parents told the teacher and my mom on a teacher parent night? Basically your argument is there will what always be terrible people so bother teaching tolerance and acceptance? 

 

i'm not sure what your rant is about , but it is a common knowledge that Islam and homosexuality does not mix. 

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darkmoonlady
45 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I often wonder how many gay people liked it when their life and lifestyle were in the shadows? Just a thought.

They didn't because they were already facing arrests, harrassment, discrimination and inability to walk the streets without being beaten and killed. And here is a memo gays, disabled, people of color are not going to hide away or pretend so you or anyone else can be comfortable in your bigotry and fear. Get over yourselves. Get over your hatred because we are not going away.

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, darkmoonlady said:

They didn't because they were already facing arrests, harrassment, discrimination and inability to walk the streets without being beaten and killed. And here is a memo gays, disabled, people of color are not going to hide away or pretend so you or anyone else can be comfortable in your bigotry and fear. Get over yourselves. Get over your hatred because we are not going away.

Someone get me a mop and a washcloth, someone emotionally projected all over me. Thanks for assuming I have hate or whatever for people different that I am, really appreciate that. Sounds like you're the one with the issues not I.

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darkmoonlady
Just now, aztek said:

i'm not sure what your rant is about , but it is a common knowledge that Islam and homosexuality does not mix. 

It wasn't a rant. Your quote was saying just because they are attempting to teach tolerance doesn't mean they'll be accepted. It was an example but maybe you didn't comprehend it. Islam doesn't accept a few things same as Christianity but last time I checked we aren't under a theocracy and our laws aren't subject to change to suit religions. 

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aztek
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, darkmoonlady said:

It wasn't a rant. Your quote was saying just because they are attempting to teach tolerance doesn't mean they'll be accepted. It was an example but maybe you didn't comprehend it. Islam doesn't accept a few things same as Christianity but last time I checked we aren't under a theocracy and our laws aren't subject to change to suit religions. 

try to follow the thread, and stop trolling, and i know trolling when i see one

Edited by aztek

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darkmoonlady
Just now, XenoFish said:

Someone get me a mop and a washcloth, someone emotionally projected all over me. Thanks for assuming I have hate or whatever for people different that I am, really appreciate that. Sounds like you're the one with the issues not I.

You just wrote how many gays liked being in the closet? If anyone is projecting it's you. No they didnt.

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darkmoonlady
Just now, aztek said:

try to follow the thread, and stop trolling

Don't like competition? What else would you do with your time dear aztek?

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XenoFish
6 minutes ago, darkmoonlady said:

You just wrote how many gays liked being in the closet? If anyone is projecting it's you. No they didnt.

Do you know what a question is? I asked how many of them liked their lives in the shadows? Not on the front page. You think I'm projecting? Hell, lady. My best friend back in the early 2000's was gay. Coolest dude I ever met. I was his freaking wingman. You think I care if someone's gay? Hell to the no. I judge a person by the quality of their character and nothing else. 

You think I have issues with people. My middle child is trans. S/he is still my kid and I still care about my kid. Don't you dare judge me. Once thing I've learned about people is that a lot of them like their privacy. Their lives quiet and in the background. 

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Grey Area
2 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

You think primary school children are visiting porn websites?

I hope I misread that.

You did misread that.  What I did say was plain English and not rocket science.

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Grey Area
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

I often wonder how many gay people liked it when their life and lifestyle were in the shadows? Just a thought.

There’s having a private life, and then there’s keeping your life private in order to avoid a lynch mob.

It’s about a man being able to say in casual conversation ‘my boyfriend’ or ‘my husband’ and a woman being able to say ‘my girlfriend’ or ‘my wife’ without judgement or criticism or outright hatred.

Alan Turing, genius, war hero, died because of his sexuality, accepted castration, and died believing he was criminally and socially disfigured.  This tragedy alone should highlight just how heinous the lack of understanding is.  He was only pardoned in 2013, and just him, all the other gay people who weren’t famous remain criminals.

As for the school.  Teachers aren’t going to be delivering sex education, they’re not going to be saying gay men like bum sex, lesbians don’t like penetration.  All it will be is it’s okay for men to love men and women to love women.

This is important because regardless of someone’s religion they are growing up in a society where actually, these things are okay.  Religion does not trump law, and ultimately if these kids with their stupid parents grow up believing the devil has made them fundamentally evil they are going to get into all sorts of legal trouble.

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lightly
7 hours ago, aztek said:

 

believe it or not, this issue is somewhat resolved in Iran, homosexuality is illegal, but changing your sex is ok,  so if a man likes men, he can do sex change surgery and become a woman, and it is legal and accepted there

Not picking on you aztek...that just struck me funny...what happens if all the men that like men have a sex change and become women?  :lol:

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Aaron2016
Posted (edited)

The teachers just have to make the parents aware that on a specific day they will be teaching a controversial topic that contradicts their religious beliefs, and their kids just have to raise their hand and be excused from the lesson.  Simple.

 

 

4 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

You think primary school children are visiting porn websites?

I hope I misread that.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36527681

'About 53% of 11 to 16-year-olds have seen explicit material online, nearly all of whom (94%) had seen it by 14.'

 

 

Edited by Aaron2016

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RabidMongoose
1 minute ago, Aaron2016 said:

The teachers just have to make the parents aware that on a specific day they will be teaching a controversial topic that contradicts their religious beliefs, and their kids just have to raise their hand and be excused from the lesson.  Simple.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36527681

'About 53% of 11 to 16-year-olds have seen explicit material online, nearly all of whom (94%) had seen it by 14.'

Thats good, but the conversation is about children of primary school age.

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Aaron2016
2 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Thats good, but the conversation is about children of primary school age.

I was 11 in primary 7.

 

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and then
9 hours ago, Iilaa'mpuul'xem said:

It's OK to be what ever you want and screw what anyone thinks. 

Absolutely TRUE... but do you think to preach that in a public school is an appropriate use of time and resources?  The funniest, sorry I have a warped sense of humor at times, thing is having a protected group like Islamic students/parents screaming in the most hysterical way against ANOTHER "protected" group :w00t:  The Left tend to develop a hitch in their "giddy up" when that occurs... :P

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and then
9 hours ago, aztek said:

so if a man likes men, he can do sex change surgery and become a woman, and it is legal and accepted there

Can you cite a link for this?  I trust you but I'd like to read the thinking of Islamic jurisprudence on this one.  Fascinating...

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aztek
2 hours ago, lightly said:

Not picking on you aztek...that just struck me funny...what happens if all the men that like men have a sex change and become women?  :lol:

i have no clue, never cared about men that like men

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and then
9 hours ago, darkmoonlady said:

Quit equivocating teaching kids to be decent as indoctrination.

So should those same schools teach the ten commandments?  They have as their ONLY purpose the upbringing of decent human beings.  That's not hyperbole and it's not snark - it's a valid question.  Who draws the line on what kind of social mores should be taught in school for the public good?

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Setton
7 hours ago, and then said:

Absolutely TRUE... but do you think to preach that in a public school is an appropriate use of time and resources?  

Yes. Absolutely. 

7 hours ago, and then said:

So should those same schools teach the ten commandments?  

They do. 

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aztek
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, and then said:

Can you cite a link for this?  I trust you but I'd like to read the thinking of Islamic jurisprudence on this one.  Fascinating...

no, i was told that by a Iranian uber driver when we were stock in traffic due to  street closures  on  the day of a gay parade.

this is what i found in the wiki,  

Quote

Before the Islamic Revolution in 1979, the issue of trans identity in Iran had never been officially addressed by the government. Beginning in the mid-1980s, however, transgender individuals were officially recognized by the government and allowed to undergo sex reassignment surgery. As of 2008, Iran carries out more sex change operations than any other nation in the world except Thailand. The government provides up to half the cost for those needing financial assistance, and a sex change is recognized on the birth certificate.[1] As of 2017, the government provided transgender persons financial assistance in the form of grants of up to 25 million tomans ($1,730 USD).[2] However, Iran is not a country tolerant of nonbinary genders or sexual fluidity. They sanction funds for sex reassignment surgery in order to fit all of their citizens into the category of either male or female without any grey area for those who are homosexual or transgender.

 

Edited by aztek
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