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danydandan

Question about perspectives.

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, eight bits said:

5ce4187c01fc3_imagodeae02.jpg.99a9d09003e1c16de3c6e33c3ec66c5d.jpg

 

As an agnostic, I can't help you with what God is like for me, but as a Jung fan, I know an image of God when I see one. (Imago deae = someone says God, what comes into your mind?) You could write an essay about why Daenerys appeals so much to both men and women, and about why so many people felt betrayal when she was killed off the other night.

She was not a heroine, she was not a villain, she transcended categories. All in a day's work for a goddess.

What do you want to bet when Martin writes one more book in the series, Jon Snow wakes up from a nightmare in which he killed Daenerys, and ... Inquiring minds want to know:

http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/20/an-ending/

 

On a point arising,

Bet you were good at it, too :)

 

What do I immediately think when I think of god, personally, I don’t really know.

What stands out to me about how culture has applied the god construct— the idea is power hungry and calling the shots via fear mongering. 

And, At times was quite successful at it, now, not as much. 

And then, as in GOT, there is that subtle and not so subtle voice of reason in Tyrion, if I was to cast god it would be in this role.

Edited by Sherapy
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jmccr8

Potential.

Hey, you look like me are you god too?

jmccr8

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sci-nerd

I see God as an underdeveloped fictional character, made to fill the gaps of knowledge and wonder, in a time with next to no answers.

The more answers we achieved the more people molded the character to fit their own needs. He turned from being a homicidal egomaniac to becoming a friendly angel on the shoulder or a personal assistant.

There are also those who cling to the original sinister version. We call them fanatics and maniacs.

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eight bits
3 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Tyrion, if I was to cast god it would be in this role.

Daenerys and Tyrion "make a complete character," complementary and wildly contrasting along every dimension. The Jungian Image of God is overwhelming (Daenerys), but his "God" also manifests as a quieter Voice of God (Tyrion perhaps).

As Jung put in his 1961 letter to the BBC's The Listener:

Quote

I call the power of fate in this positive as well as negative aspect, and inasmuch as its origin is beyond my control, 'god',a 'personal god', since my fate means very much myself, particularly when it approaches me in the form of conscience as a vox Dei, with which I can even converse and argue.

 Just musing. You have good taste in gods :)

 

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XenoFish
1 hour ago, sci-nerd said:

I see God as an underdeveloped fictional character

Not quite. It does depend on which god we're talking about in general. But the abrahamic god is fully fleshed out for its time. Serving the purpose it was created for. However times have changed. We need new gods or no gods. Take your pick.

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darkmoonlady
9 hours ago, danydandan said:

The OP wasn't about proving God. 

It's simply, when someone says God, what's the first thought in your head.

But if I'm reading your post correctly you infer our mathematics and scientific research to be God? 

I wasn't attempting to prove or disprove. I am not saying math and science are god, but there may be something like a god and that physics (and the mathematical formulas) are proof of that. 

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danydandan
6 minutes ago, darkmoonlady said:

I wasn't attempting to prove or disprove. I am not saying math and science are god, but there may be something like a god and that physics (and the mathematical formulas) are proof of that. 

Still though, you are still trying to say the something like a God is evidenced in physics and in specifically our formulae. Whatever that's fine. I'm not going to be start off down the road of saying why it's not.

However I will ask, as it's relevant to what the opening comment asked, is your last two comments answering the question set forth in my opening comment?

Is what you responded with the first thing that pops into your head when you hear 'God' uttered?

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darkmoonlady
2 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Still though, you are still trying to say the something like a God is evidenced in physics and in specifically our formulae. Whatever that's fine. I'm not going to be start off down the road of saying why it's not.

However I will ask, as it's relevant to what the opening comment asked, is your last two comments answering the question set forth in my opening comment?

Is what you responded with the first thing that pops into your head when you hear 'God' uttered?

Yes that is literally what pops into my head. I certainly don't picture a white old man with a beard. As a pagan I have thoughts on what humans attribute to a deity or an elemental, but as for god big G, rules the universe and omnipotent and omniscient the thing I think of is so vast and so beyond us that physics is the only place I go to. There is a quote someone said that they can understand a humans need to look to a god for a sense of miracle and wonder, they as a scientist easily found those miracles and wonders looking at the universe and the physics behind it. 

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Jodie.Lynne
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, danydandan said:

When I say God, truly what is the first thing that comes into your mind?

Honestly, nothing. To me, it is semantically the same as responding "because" to a child's simple question that requires a very complex answer. It is a non-answer answer.

 

11 hours ago, danydandan said:

I see an entity that programmed the laws of nature, pressed play and just observes.

Why? Meaning, why does there always have to be some intelligence behind the origin of everything?

Take a catastrophic landslide, for example. We can point to the reasons why it happened ( extreme deforestation due to logging and/or forest fires, excessive rainfall, etc., etc.), but it didn't require an intelligence to make it happen. Do you see my meaning?

Yes, we could stretch the boundaries of logic and say that men logging the area, and someone lighting a fire were intelligent agents acting towards the ultimate 'goal' of a landslide, but that would require accepting that the loggers and the Firestarter were working with the intent to create a future landslide. I include this to preclude the silly argument from the get-go. :)

11 hours ago, danydandan said:

Do people adhere strictly to the Abramic God, to the various Gods of Greek/Roman/Pagan/Norse/Old Irish/Native American/Hindi/ Asian God/s etcetera.

If I were to subscribe to any mythologies, I think it would be the Norse & Old Irish. Basically, because none of them seemed to concerned with overall societal behavior, but rather, on the individual and their achievements in life. And any 'boons' granted were the result of tremendous personal sacrifice and determination.

Edited by Jodie.Lynne
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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, eight bits said:

Daenerys and Tyrion "make a complete character," complementary and wildly contrasting along every dimension. The Jungian Image of God is overwhelming (Daenerys), but his "God" also manifests as a quieter Voice of God (Tyrion perhaps).

As Jung put in his 1961 letter to the BBC's The Listener:

 Just musing. You have good taste in gods :)

 

Wouldn’t you be fun to rap about GOT with. 

Wowza, great pull. 

Daenery didn’t listen to the voice of reason, either. 

Anyway, I am rewatching the whole series. 

Hey, what Jung book would you recommend if you could only recommend one!

You must choose, lol.

Edited by Sherapy
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eight bits
58 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Hey, what Jung book would you recommend if you could only recommend one!

Memories, Dreams, Reflections which he co-authored with Aniela Jaffé. It's essentially an autobiography, and a good read.

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

You must choose, lol.

Ha, ha. Three runners-up (making four; Jung loved groupings of four :) )

The Portable Jung, edited by Joseph Campbell. Since it's a collection of Jung's papers, you can skip around or even skip over, and focus in on the topics that interest you.

The Red Book is something to see, because Jung's illustrations are gorgeous. I doubt very many people read it, though, since for all its beauty, the text is basically a transcription into calligraphy of his raw notebooks, especially from the time when he was hallucinating on a regular basis, after his break with Freud.

The last thing he wrote was the extended introduction to Man and his Symbols. The rest of the book is interesting, too, but the long essay from Jung is poignant and lucid.

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Wes83

Depending on the context people use it in, the focal point of the morals they are trying to express they possess. Other than that-nada.

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Sherapy
4 hours ago, eight bits said:

Memories, Dreams, Reflections which he co-authored with Aniela Jaffé. It's essentially an autobiography, and a good read.

Ha, ha. Three runners-up (making four; Jung loved groupings of four :) )

The Portable Jung, edited by Joseph Campbell. Since it's a collection of Jung's papers, you can skip around or even skip over, and focus in on the topics that interest you.

The Red Book is something to see, because Jung's illustrations are gorgeous. I doubt very many people read it, though, since for all its beauty, the text is basically a transcription into calligraphy of his raw notebooks, especially from the time when he was hallucinating on a regular basis, after his break with Freud.

The last thing he wrote was the extended introduction to Man and his Symbols. The rest of the book is interesting, too, but the long essay from Jung is poignant and lucid.

Thank you, I work two 12 hour shifts at nite and I have lots of time to read. I will get up to Jung speed, finally. Thank you for the recommendation and shortcuts. 

 

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Rlyeh
22 hours ago, danydandan said:

Simple one.

When I say God, truly what is the first thing that comes into your mind?

Either Yahweh or a god of gaps.

 

22 hours ago, danydandan said:

I see an entity that programmed the laws of nature, pressed play and just observes.

A god of gaps it is.

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Podo

It depends on the context of the word. If someone starts talking about god, singular, I assume that they're an Abrahamic theist. In this case, I see it as a vengeful and petty entity of fragile ego and rampant aggression. If a person is talking about one of the gods, or a specific god, I think about that thing, instead.

They're all equally implausible to me, however.

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danydandan
8 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Either Yahweh or a god of gaps.

 

A god of gaps it is.

Just one Gap. 

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Desertrat56
On 5/21/2019 at 4:46 AM, danydandan said:

Simple one.

When I say God, truly what is the first thing that comes into your mind?

I see an entity that programmed the laws of nature, pressed play and just observes.

Do people adhere strictly to the Abramic God, to the various Gods of Greek/Roman/Pagan/Norse/Old Irish/Native American/Hindi/ Asian God/s etcetera.

When I see the word God, I immediately think of the imaginary diety that I was raised to believe in, some dictatorial being made up to keep people afraid and acting like unthinking sheep doing what they are told in order to survive death. 

I see the idea of god as being something similar to what is described on the Star Gate stories, entities looking for slaves or in the case of their Asgard entities, trying to keep balance and protect what they are able from those slavers.  I think pretending like one being created the universe and everything in it is very small minded, too simplistic and naive.  There has to be a source of what we think of as creation, but we are not in a position to understand what that really is or how it came to be.  We don't have access to the perspective it would take to understand it and using the word God interchangably with "creator" or "source" causes a lot of confusion for people who think there is one entity that owns it all, and in fact, those can't even fathom what "all" of it is.  There are so many subtle layers to our existence and our understandings there could be no "one god".

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Desertrat56
On 5/21/2019 at 5:19 AM, psyche101 said:

I see the diversity of culture. The Abrahamic God is predominant in our culture just as Brahma is to Hindus, Allah to Muslims, Baiame to Australian Indigenous and Tangaloa is to the Polynesian people. Its the colour of our species, some just take it a bit too seriously. 

Allah is just another name for the Abrahmic God.  Islam is an abrahamic sect split in to several sub-sects, just like christianity.

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Desertrat56
22 hours ago, darkmoonlady said:

I wasn't attempting to prove or disprove. I am not saying math and science are god, but there may be something like a god and that physics (and the mathematical formulas) are proof of that. 

Maybe math and science are proof that there is order to the universe, which some might call god.

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psyche101
14 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Allah is just another name for the Abrahmic God.  Islam is an abrahamic sect split in to several sub-sects, just like christianity.

I'd say they all go back to 2 basic sources, East and West eventually. All are rehashed versions. Allah and jesus exist in both Christianity and Islam but have enough differences to call them seperate entities in my opinion. 

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psyche101
On 5/21/2019 at 8:46 PM, danydandan said:

I see an entity that programmed the laws of nature, pressed play and just observes.

I honestly find that astoundingly bewildering considering your level of academia. I know you don't discuss your belief, but am I the only one who finds your view so puzzling? 

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Golden Duck
34 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I honestly find that astoundingly bewildering considering your level of academia. I know you don't discuss your belief, but am I the only one who finds your view so puzzling? 

If I take a bit of time to think about it I don't think he, @danydandan, means an entity playing Sim Universe.

Universal constants are what they are because the Universe wouldn't work if they weren't, true?  Does this universe exist because of some brute-force algorithm? I view evolution that way.

Pizza Hut was giving away copies of The Sims a few years back. I'd make a typically capricious God.

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Desertrat56
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I honestly find that astoundingly bewildering considering your level of academia. I know you don't discuss your belief, but am I the only one who finds your view so puzzling? 

Maybe you are,  I can't speak for anyone else but it is a thinking person's perspective, in my opinion. 

Edited by Desertrat56

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danydandan
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I honestly find that astoundingly bewildering considering your level of academia. I know you don't discuss your belief, but am I the only one who finds your view so puzzling? 

It's ok, I find it puzzling also.

Perhaps I need to clarify, or elaborate on, a bit of what I think may have started it all..... Or do I..... Yeah I think I do.

All I think is, that someone/thing?????? Created a number of fundamental laws of nature that we now express mathematically. (Possibly some we don't know nor have discovered yet!). All we see/experience/happens is s result of these fundamental laws interacting with each other, maybe these interactions create other laws. Sort of similar to electromagnetism if you get my drift. 

Now whether it was a thing that created them or these laws are a result of TBBT and various other interactions I, obviously, have no idea. I kinda just like to think that something kick started it all, if it isn't how I imagine it to be. Well so be it......who cares. Or maybe these laws are God. I don't know. 

@Golden Duck, I don't actually believe in a simulated type universe. I think everything is a result of the probability of the natural laws interacting spontaneously. I hope the makes more sense.

Hence my stance as an Agnostic Theist. I'm not defined by what I do in my professional career nor my qualifications...well I hope I'm not anyways and I hold the same mantra for everyone, unless they are conmen or something.

Edited by danydandan
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Pettytalk
On 5/21/2019 at 4:00 AM, XenoFish said:

A domineering and controlling "father figure", basically an abusive parent.

Surely controlling our future, so as to make us better adults, in the end. Abusive? In what way? Surely not physical sexual abuse!

Parents that allow their children to run wild and free as they please, generally turn out to be the biggest brats, society's spoiled children and anarchists at large..

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