The Patterson bigfoot film, was it a costume?

[+DieChecker]

Usually if a horse falls on someone, the person doesn't usually just jump back up and race off. Especially if there's a saddle crunching you involved.

I tend to agree with Oldrover, I remember the story as Patterson saw it, then jumped off, then started filming.

Quote

Patterson said that his horse reared upon sensing the figure, and he spent about 20 seconds extricating himself from the saddle, controlling his horse, getting around to its other side,^[48]and getting his camera from a saddlebag before he could run toward the figure while operating his camera. 

Source Wikipedia.... 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

17 hours ago, OverSword said:

@Gilbert Syndrome after years and YEARS of threads on this website about this subject you are coming up with tons of “facts” nobody has ever posted before. How about some links?

If you've genuinely been discussing this for years and years, yet you've never heard anything about what I'm telling you, then you've either been cherry-picking the bits of "research" that you prefer to believe, or you've been pretty ignorant to the actual facts, no offense. I don't bother with Bigfoot anymore, but the PGFis something I have been interested in since at least 2008, and let me tell ya, there's a lot that seems to be getting ignored on here, especially if you've been involved in threads on the subject for years and years. 

Links? Well, firstly, the contradictory accounts given regarding the event are all on the BFRO page. If you've not seen them, then where have you been looking at the account? 

Surely you've seen the Argosy magazine featuring P&G on the cover? Why do you suppose Gimlin has a wig on? 

What piece of information would you like a link for? 

Have you ever seen the copy of the contract for the funding of the movie Roger was making? What do you suppose that was about? How come the fact that Roger was making a Bigfoot movie, ran out of money, then said he was "looking for Bigfoot" and then finds it isn't remotely odd to some people? It's baffling. 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

1 minute ago, DieChecker said:

Usually if a horse falls on someone, the person doesn't usually just jump back up and race off. Especially if there's a saddle crunching you involved.

I tend to agree with Oldrover, I remember the story as Patterson saw it, then jumped off, then started filming.

Source Wikipedia.... 

They played around with different versions, either getting their story straight or attempting to flesh it out, the only problem is that they did it in the most ridiculous way. 

Let's look at some other inconsistencies: 

Both P&G originally said Patty was 6", then about 6'2", then 6'5", then finally, they even claimed 7'3 and 1 half inch, they settled on 7". 

Patterson told Green that the horse he rode was around "1,200 - 1,300lbs" and that the horses prints weren't as deep as Patty's. He claimed the horses prints "weren't half as deep as the creature's." So Patty weighed beween 2,200 and 2,300lbs? Roger said the Bigfoot was about "300lbs."

Here's an account from Roger this time:

"About 1:30 in the afternoon, as we rounded a bend in the road, we saw the creature. My horse reared and then fell as I tried to control it."

Compare this with just one of Gimlin's many accounts:

"Patterson quickly dismounted his horse, grabbed his camera and ran after the creature. "

Roger says "the horse was spooked by that big old thing."

Gimlin says "the horses didn't act worried, just normal."

So which is it?

[+DieChecker]

1 minute ago, Gilbert Syndrome said:

They played around with different versions, either getting their story straight or attempting to flesh it out, the only problem is that they did it in the most ridiculous way. 

Let's look at some other inconsistencies: 

Both P&G originally said Patty was 6", then about 6'2", then 6'5", then finally, they even claimed 7'3 and 1 half inch, they settled on 7". 

Patterson told Green that the horse he rode was around "1,200 - 1,300lbs" and that the horses prints weren't as deep as Patty's. He claimed the horses prints "weren't half as deep as the creature's." So Patty weighed beween 2,200 and 2,300lbs? Roger said the Bigfoot was about "300lbs."

Here's an account from Roger this time:

"About 1:30 in the afternoon, as we rounded a bend in the road, we saw the creature. My horse reared and then fell as I tried to control it."

Compare this with just one of Gimlin's many accounts:

"Patterson quickly dismounted his horse, grabbed his camera and ran after the creature. "

Roger says "the horse was spooked by that big old thing."

Gimlin says "the horses didn't act worried, just normal."

So which is it?

Well regardless, it seems you and I are both saying it was faked. Is that correct? Are we then just discussing the particulars of the faking? Because I can be OK with that...

I'm sure there are some direct quotes from Patterson and Gimlin on what they say they saw that are more respectable then Wikipedia's summery. We could work from those.

[Gilbert Syndrome]

16 hours ago, OverSword said:

That’s a good one. Too bad there’s no sound. Do you know what show that came from? If like to see the whole thing 

It wasn't a show, it was a video edited together by Jeff Pruitt: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0699231/

He was known as D-Foot back in the day on the JREF and other related forums where we went over this story to death. The audio has since been removed, probably because it featured music from the Beatles. On it you would've heard Janos Prohaska claiming that the hair would've taken about "10 hours to glue" on.

[Gilbert Syndrome]

1 minute ago, DieChecker said:

Well regardless, it seems you and I are both saying it was faked. Is that correct? Are we then just discussing the particulars of the faking? Because I can be OK with that...

I'm sure there are some direct quotes from Patterson and Gimlin on what they say they saw that are more respectable then Wikipedia's summery. We could work from those.

These are all quotes that you can see on the BFRO sighting's segment on the PGF. I've had them saved within a file since 2009/10. 

Of course I'm saying it's a fake. 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

14 hours ago, OverSword said:

Would it be wrong to point out that humans with dark skin have pale palms and soles of their feet?

Yes it would, because people who live in the wild and do not wear footwear tend to have splayed toes, not uniform toes which look exactly like a rubber cast, and not to mention the fact that it was apparently walking across a creak and yet its feet are a brilliant shade of white, and also the fact that one foot is apparently a club-foot. 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

13 hours ago, the13bats said:

i like to joke that even if gimlin put on the suit and did the hooky pooky while pattersons window showed the bloopers and out take reels some dear true believers even then would yell "cover up" , 

The movie isn't hard to prove either way, it's just that nobody actually seems interested in the obvious problems that give it away, and are content to make excuses for it because they simply love the magic of it, lol. 

I mean, take one look at Gimlin in his wig and ask yourself if this footage could be genuine. If you can do that and keep a straight face then fair play to you. 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

5 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Over the many years here on UM, I've come to the conclusion that the much greater preponderance of evidence points at it being a suit. I'm not sure if it was Bob H., but surely Bob heard about it, and maybe years latter thought to try to get even for some old debt. Sounds like something my dad might do. 

I don't know that I believe Philip Morris either. I believe he had plenty to gain by making a claim that, at that point, had no one who could dispute it. His description of the suit was vastly different from Bob H.

I do also remember seeing the pictures and film of Bob H with Gimlin and Patterson on horses. And read that indeed Gimlin and Patterson were riding Bob's horses at the time.

Plus Patterson had already been caught faking footprints, and still had the foot casts he used to do so. He wanted to find bigfoot and make a video more then anything, and when he set out, just a mile or so down the trail, he found one. Coincidence? Maybe, but probably not.

It's entirely possible that Roger did indeed rent a suit from Philip Morris, in fact, I'm pretty certain that I recall that he did, after all, he needed a suit in order to put a Bigfoot in the movie he was making. Once the funding fell through, or more appropriately, once Roger had spent all of the moolah, he changed his direction and intended to fake a sighting. The suit was almost definitely modified. Anyone heard of Jerry Merrit? Anyone aware of that guy's connections? 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

Patterson and Gimlin have claimed Patty was both crouching and standing when they first saw her. They have claimed she stopped and stood still for a time as well after they began filming her. "Stopped dead" is the term Patterson used.

Sometimes Roger fell off the horse, sometimes he didn't. One time he was pinned under the horse with a completely flattened stirrup, "with my foot caught in it", another time he wasn't pinned at all, but just slid off the back of the horse as it reared.

Additionally, it is widely reported that Patterson carried a bent stirrup and showed it to people as part of his PGF presentation. He clearly claimed that his horse bucked and fell onto him, pinning his leg beneath it. Early interviews even have Patterson talking about pursuing Patty with the camera while dealing with the pain coming from his crushed leg. Yet, Gimlin claimed that Patterson was not crushed by his horse. This is no small and insignificant disagreement. Interestingly, Gimlin doesn't seem to have changed his recollection in spite of Patterson presenting a bent stirrup. It wasn't very long after the widespread presentation and marketing of the PGF that Patterson and DeAtley ditched Gimlin as a "partner".

 

Here Roger's horse didn't go down and Roger had the camera ready in his hand as he stepped off the horse.

Green: Did Roger’s horse buck?

Gimlin: No, it never did buck, just reared and jumped all around. His horse was in front of me and of course I wasn’t looking straight at him all the time. This all happened in a couple of heart beats you know. It happened fast!

Green: But then Roger’s horse didn’t go down?

Gimlin: No. It didn’t fall down, just reared up is all.

Green: Because this has been said since [inaudible] …you know that Roger’s horse fell down…?

Gimlin: No, no his horse never did fall down. No.

Green: Okay, that’s interesting. So did he get the camera while he was still on the horse?

Gimlin: Yes, while he was stepping down off the horse. Umm, a lot of people have asked me about that and they probably don’t realize the agility that Roger had. He was a tremendous athlete. Roger had tremendous agility! He had been a rodeo rider, he did gymnastics and this wasn’t a full size horse Roger was riding either. It was a pony, a small horse.

Green: Yeah, I’ve seen those little horses, he used to haul them in a Volkswagen bus…

Gimlin: Yeah, we used to haul two of them in a VW bus. Roger rode these horses because they were easy to get on and off of because Roger wasn’t a very big man. So actually when he was getting off his horse, he always kept that saddle bag ready. The saddle bag had two flaps on it to keep it buckled down. He kept one buckled and one of them unbuckled so he could get his camera in the event he needed it in a hurry and this was the case at that particular time.

Green: So he practiced getting the camera out of the saddle bags in a hurry?

Gimlin: Oh yeah, lots of times. Yes, he did, that was his theory that if he ever had to get it, ah kept the one buckle on there so it would not bounce out while he was riding and the other one loose so he could get it out in a hurry.

(British Columbia The Province October 25th 1967.)

In this version we have Patterson's horse falling down again, but Patty is now on his left. From Reader's Digest January 1969.
 

 

Patterson's horse stopped and snorted, then reared and fell on its side. Moments later, Patterson saw what had startled his mount. "This creature was on my left, about ~ 95 feet across the creek," he recalls.

(The original Times-Standard article on the event says that Bob Gimlin's horse also had to be released. So it has both men on foot just after they run across Patty).
 

 

Gimlin was astride an older horse which is generally trailwise, but it too rared (sic) and had to be released, running off to join their pack horse which had broken free during the initial moments of the sighting.

 

...

 

All of this information has been available for years. On the original JREF, many posters contributed to the complete and utter bollocking that the PGF got. I've forgotten more than I can remember, tbh, but I still have files with this information in for anyone remotely interested. 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

"The brave cowboy, Roger Patterson, with his trusty Indian guide, Bob with Wig Gimlin, approach their beastly quarry."

[Gilbert Syndrome]

[Gilbert Syndrome]

Over on the far right, you'll notice Bob Heironimus, who wasn't with them that day...  

[Gilbert Syndrome]

[Dradan]

On 5/24/2019 at 5:07 PM, Robotic Jew said:

Why would he have to travel in time to create the suit?

Because they didnt have the materials back in 1967..?

[Piney]

14 minutes ago, Aldves said:

Because they didnt have the materials back in 1967..?

 

[Piney]

2 hours ago, Gilbert Syndrome said:

 trusty Indian guide, Bob with Wig Gimlin, approach their beastly quarry."

This is the reason I don't even own a pair of bloody moccasins........

[the13bats]

3 hours ago, Gilbert Syndrome said:

I think you've all got me mistaken. I'm not saying you've never seen a documentary with added sound effects, what I'm saying is this wasn't a part of the actual footage, it was quite obviously added for dramatic effect. The PGF doesn't have any sound. I'm not being "snide" lol, I'm telling you how it is. It amazed me how little actual valid information I was reading about in this thread, I'm not here to stick my thumb up and give out badges for effort. No, see, there's facts, and there's opinions, and what I've posted thus far is fact, which you can all look into for yourselves, but apparently have not bothered to. 

 

you came in with a lot of bluster talking about everything you saw wrong here but havent posted anything new or that i havent heard countless times before, 

i had already posted any soundtrack had been added,  you just repeated what i posted, if you have new info with of course proof of your opinions please do post it we are all interested. 

[the13bats]

3 hours ago, Gilbert Syndrome said:

William Roe was a bloke who loved a tall tale. He apparently was abducted by a family of Squatches while sleeping, taken to their cave, where there was a father, a mother and two children, a boy and a girl, how lovely. He escaped by throwing his snuff at them. The image of the female Bigfoot which looks unsurprisingly like Patty is taken from Roger's book, which had a segment that depicted the Roe encounter. Do you all know that Roger also essentially stole some of the art featured in his book? Roger was obsessed with the Roe tale, and he basically wanted to put it on film, and he did, and here we all are, yet some people apparently still think it's the real deal, and I find that hilarious. 

that wasnt the roe story that was the ostman story, and not a cave a clearing in a valley, and you say you are here to fix all the misinformation, right

 

edit: http://www.bigfootencounters.com/classics/ostman.htm

Edited May 26, 2019 by the13bats
typo, added link to clear misinformation

[the13bats]

3 hours ago, Gilbert Syndrome said:

The movie isn't hard to prove either way, it's just that nobody actually seems interested in the obvious problems that give it away, and are content to make excuses for it because they simply love the magic of it, lol. 

I mean, take one look at Gimlin in his wig and ask yourself if this footage could be genuine. If you can do that and keep a straight face then fair play to you. 

PGF, isnt proven,  you believe its fake i believe its fake, proven fake to us isnt proven fake across the board there are still believers in the film its obviously not proven fake to them, ad hominem attacks on the believers isnt proving the film is fake.

gimlin is the wig is a different film,  geeky sure but its only one bit piece of zillions that lead to PGF being fake.

[Gilbert Syndrome]

19 minutes ago, the13bats said:

you came in with a lot of bluster talking about everything you saw wrong here but havent posted anything new or that i havent heard countless times before, 

i had already posted any soundtrack had been added,  you just repeated what i posted, if you have new info with of course proof of your opinions please do post it we are all interested. 

If you've seen all of this before then why haven't you mentioned any of it? Apparently, none of this stuff was important enough for any of you to post, hence me posting it. 

You've seen and read it all, yet refrained from bringing any of it up. 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

58 minutes ago, Aldves said:

Because they didnt have the materials back in 1967..?

What materials are you talking about specifically? Does it not bother you that the diaper-butt is evident in costumes from the 1930's, or how about the Janos "knee" that we see is almost identical to the knee on Patty? How about this...?

[the13bats]

8 minutes ago, Gilbert Syndrome said:

If you've seen all of this before then why haven't you mentioned any of it? Apparently, none of this stuff was important enough for any of you to post, hence me posting it. 

You've seen and read it all, yet refrained from bringing any of it up. 

go read all my posts on the subject , is this thread other threads here and other sites and forums but first fix your confusion about Roes story and Ostmans story, you got the players mixed up....

back to PGF, nothing new has come up about it im bored with it to be honest. 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

23 minutes ago, the13bats said:

that wasnt the roe story that was the ostman story, and not a cave a clearing in a valley, and you say you are here to fix all the misinformation, right

Now, you're very much correct, I mistook one for the other. That's not misinformation, though, do you know what misinformation is? That was me making a mistake, lol, as opposed to the actual misinformation such as there being a version of the PGF with sound, or the notion that the BBC tried to recreate the suit, or a bunch of other things that I've not bothered to address because they're not worth it. 

 

The Roe account also involved a female Bigfoot, and an image appeared in Roger's book, the female with bewbs. 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

1 minute ago, the13bats said:

go read all my posts on the subject , is this thread other threads here and other sites and forums but first fix your confusion about Roes story and Ostmans story, you got the players mixed up....

back to PGF, nothing new has come up about it im bored with it to be honest. 

But you never felt the need to bring any of this stuff up in this thread because...? I'm not about to read all of your posts on this subject, lol. If you're bored, see you later, Kemosabe. Either way, you decided all of this stuff wasn't relevant despite the obvious topic of the thread being about the authenticity of the PGF, a topic in which the fact that Roger was making a bloody movie would've been wholly relevant.