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Montezuma III

One Man's Baloney is Another Man's Rosetta S

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Tatetopa
8 hours ago, Montezuma III said:

It is remarkable how some intellectuals can believe that 85 percent of the Universe is invisible & all we observe is only 13 billion years old, but to visualize all stars flowing down the spiral arms into the galactic center is preposterous to them. To me, it is the missing link to understanding the known Universe without any exotic math or theories. It's just gravity - the same gravity that made Newton famous.

You know that you can measure the angular momentum of stars.  In just the years since we have been observing spectrographs and start positions (only about a hundred years)  we can tell what direction a lot of them are moving.  If you read up on it, you might find the stars are orbiting around the center of the galaxy yes, but they also have angular momentum, energy, that keeps them moving in orbits.  The spiral arms themselves are not a fixed and stable structure but the cloud of stars that forms them tends to wander and distort.  If two stars collided and the collision resulted in zero angular momentum, over time, they would fall toward that big black hole in the center of the galaxy.

Now you know that all stars do not move at the same speed, but take an average.

Using your numbers, you calculate a fall toward the center with close to zero angular momentum.  But consider as it gets closer, speed increases.  With only a slight angular momentum, it misses the center and heads out again, like a comet in our own solar system. 

Consider the local environment.  How long have the planets been revolving around the sun without falling into it?  Apparently from the fossil record of the earth, much longer than 52 million years.

How long can man made satellites stay in orbit if we send them far enough from the surface and they have momentum.?

As for dark matter, that largely comes to bear when you look beyond a galaxy into larger space and clusters of galaxies.  They move and groups move around a center of mass.  Physical measurements were telling astronomers that their movements  did not jibe with the observable luminous mass of stars in each galaxy.  Galaxies appear to be much more massive than the sum of all the stars in them, hence some dark matter that does not emit or reflect light or maybe even interact with regular matter.  They are not as stupid and nerdy and ignorant of the obvious as you might think, and you may not be the first to have this idea.  Others may have tested its viability and found it didn't answer all of the questions.

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Tatetopa
45 minutes ago, Montezuma III said:

Who cares?!?! I do, for one. You may take all you have for granted, but there are wonderful creations that I would like to see preserved - like math, music and chess. 

I think we all would.  Most people think about the survival of those creations over the next hundred or thousand years.  Most species don't last more than 2-3 million years.  Whatever intelligence there may be on earth in 52 million years may not resemble us or recognize our math, music, and chess.

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Montezuma III

Thank you for your input. 

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Montezuma III

You seem very knowledgeable, but you make the same errors as the other scientists. Explain how there can be Dark matter AND matter speeding up at the center? Stars are observed to be moving at 220 km/sec. At that speed it takes 1,364.27 years to travel one LY. In the 100 years since the discovery of other galaxies,  everything has moved 7 percent of 1 LY. Since Galileo discovered the moons of Jupiter all matter has moved 30 percent of 1 LY. So to detect the motions of stars 10 or 1,000 or 1 000,000 LY away is purely speculation. 

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Tatetopa
51 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Now you know that all stars do not move at the same speed, but take an average.

I was wrong about this, or I was being too picky.  Oort noticed that they are moving at about the same speed, contrary to what one might think.  It seems to indicate that something else is in play.  Sorry about the persnicketyness.

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Montezuma III

No problemo. If you can visualize all stars flowing down the spiral arms into the galactic center, they would HAVE TO move the same speed or gaps and pileups would occur. The Fibonacci spiral can be measured in both length of distance and duration of time traveled. 

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Piney
13 minutes ago, Montezuma III said:

No problemo. If you can visualize all stars flowing down the spiral arms into the galactic center, they would HAVE TO move the same speed or gaps and pileups would occur. The Fibonacci spiral can be measured in both length of distance and duration of time traveled. 

No, they don't. Our solar system moves in and with the Orion Spur, our spiral arm, as they both orbit the Galactic center. It doesn't get closer. 

The Fibonacci spiral has nothing to do with our movement. Show me the telescopic data that we are getting closer to Sag.A. You can't. We aren't. 

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Kismit

Closed for review

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