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ouija ouija

Spreckels Murder: two new documentaries

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ouija ouija

I am so glad this case is not being allowed to rest. Rebecca Zahau was so obviously murdered.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7067285/Family-woman-hanging-naked-California-mansion-say-believe-murdered.html

From the link:

"But her case is being examined in two new documentaries - Investigation Discovery's 'Rebecca Zahau: An ID Murder Mystery' and the Oxygen channel's 'Death At The Mansion: Rebecca Zahau' - which include new interviews with Zahau's family members and investigators. 

Doug Loehner, Zahau's brother-in-law and a detective at Michigan's St. Joseph Police Department, told Fox News that it is important for the family to keep Zahau's name out there. 

'We want to apply more pressure to the sheriff's office to do the right thing,' he told Fox News."

I've tried to find the extensive thread we already have on this, but so far with no luck.

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Robotic Jew

Eh. I'm always hesitant to call something murder when I hear the family using "they would never commit suicide so it has to be murder!" as part of their reasoning. Sure, there are some oddities in this case but given her recent trauma it's not inconceivable that she would choose to end her own life.

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Not A Rockstar

Here it is. I had to go offsite and search to find it, oddly enough. It is large and covers years of discussions :) 

 

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susieice

Has Adam's appeal been heard yet?

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ouija ouija

Good point, Susie. I haven't been aware of news of this though.

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susieice

I haven't heard anything either. Our Criminal Justice system just drags on forever. I just went back to some other cases we have threads on because I was wondering about them. I watched the sentencing trial of one of them. That was the fastest trial to take place that I can remember. It's like the Rhoden trials. They will likely drag out for years. I'll see if I can find anything about Adam.

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susieice

It seems in February 2019 Adam's verdict was dismissed. There was an agreement between an insurance company and the Zahau family without Adam's knowledge. It means Adam can't reopen it and he is furious. The Zahau family is looking at opening a criminal case against him now.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Settlement-in-Rebecca-Zahau-Civil-Case-San-Diego-Spreckles-Mansion-505423701.html

https://www.760kfmb.com/article/entertainment/radio/mark-larson/zahau-family-attorney-i-anticipate-adam-shacknai-will-end-up-behind-bars/510-9a9d8b9f-ad04-4fd1-829d-649d225efa26

 

 

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Vincennes
18 hours ago, susieice said:

It seems in February 2019 Adam's verdict was dismissed. There was an agreement between an insurance company and the Zahau family without Adam's knowledge. It means Adam can't reopen it and he is furious. The Zahau family is looking at opening a criminal case against him now.

My understanding of that article is that the guilty verdict stands but it's certainly confusing.  I'm wondering who the insurance company is and who it represents ?????  

Does your house insurance cover someone hanging off your balcony ?   The only thing I can think of is that it's an insurance company that's representing Jonah and they've kept that out of the news to limit his exposure.  Any one can sue someone for anything.  Doesn't mean you will win but you can do it.   Say the Zahua family was threatening to sue Jonah for having his dangerous brother at the house.  An insurance company might have thought it much cheaper to pay the $600,000 than to battle that in view of Adam's guilty verdict. 

I just hope this is enough to help Rebecca's sister and brother-in-law with the debt they incurred fighting for justice !  I also hope that whatever else goes forward, it's not too much for her sister.  She looked absolutely worn out by the end of that trial.  

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Regi
On 5/24/2019 at 12:32 PM, Not A Rockstar said:

Here it is. I had to go offsite and search to find it, oddly enough. It is large and covers years of discussions :)

The only thing I can think of to add to the discussion is that an episode of Homicide Hunter put me in mind of the bizarre circumstances surrounding Zahau's death.

 

https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Mental-Health-Conditions/Dissociative-Disorders

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Vincennes

 

I will say that was one of the most accurate docs I've seen.  Of course there were a lot of details that they didn't include but I thought it was still very well put together.  The went light on Jonah's possible involvement but what choice did they have ?  LE afforded him the ability to walk away.  

One thing I wished they had done was include a little information about Rebecca's younger sister that was there at the time of Max's fall.  She's certainly has gotten a pass as far Max's fall.  As a matter of fact, I'd love to see another doc regarding just Max's fall.  After reading a bit regarding Max's mother's point of view, I really came to feel sorry for her.  Her questions and their (LE) reactions to them seemed to me to be extremely valid.  

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susieice
13 hours ago, Vincennes said:

 

I will say that was one of the most accurate docs I've seen.  Of course there were a lot of details that they didn't include but I thought it was still very well put together.  The went light on Jonah's possible involvement but what choice did they have ?  LE afforded him the ability to walk away.  

One thing I wished they had done was include a little information about Rebecca's younger sister that was there at the time of Max's fall.  She's certainly has gotten a pass as far Max's fall.  As a matter of fact, I'd love to see another doc regarding just Max's fall.  After reading a bit regarding Max's mother's point of view, I really came to feel sorry for her.  Her questions and their (LE) reactions to them seemed to me to be extremely valid.  

I would love to see a much more informative documentary on Max's accident also. And Rebecca's sister. Only about his accident. That part of this story bothers me a lot more. 

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Vincennes
10 hours ago, susieice said:

I would love to see a much more informative documentary on Max's accident also. And Rebecca's sister. Only about his accident. That part of this story bothers me a lot more. 

All I can find now is a couple of photos of the younger sister and I'm even unable to link that.  Mystifying to me that she has been able to stay out of the news so completely.  

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Vincennes
Posted (edited)

 

Using Google, I did find this re. Xena at the trial.  It says they played her disposition.  (?)  Maybe we talked about this when the trial was going on and I've forgotten. (?)  But I'm questioning why they used a disposition ?  Why would the defense allow that and not demand that she appear so that she could be cross-examined ? 

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-zahau-day6-story.html
 

I don't think anything will ever change my mind that Rebecca was murdered and I don't think it was just Adam, I think Jonah was there too.  However, I feel that Xena was involved in Max's fall and if there was any guilt on Rebecca's part at all, it was covering up for Xena.  I don't think the girl had murderous intent, I think she had just arrived and was doing whatever she could to get on the good side of Max by showing him a fun trick involving the razor scooter and the bannister.  Physics shows Max's center of balance was too low to go over that bannister even if there was speed involved.  Paint scraps show that the scooter was at some point on top of the hand rail.  There was some mention in the recent doc that there are those that think Rebecca might have picked him up to discipline him and lost hold of him causing him to go over.  To me, that's a lot more far-fetched than looking at the other person who was admittedly upstairs with Max at the time of his fall as the one who might have picked him up and then lost her hold.  

Edited by Vincennes
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ouija ouija

The two hour documentary that I watched last Sunday threw up the following questions for me(apologies if this is going over old ground):

I know we had problems with inconsistent time frames, but this is what came out of this documentary: there were 48hrs, spanning three days, between the two 911 calls. The first call regarding Max and the second one regarding Rebecca. When Adam phoned 911 and was asked for the address he said "Where you collected the kid yesterday". Now, Max had been picked up two days before so was Adam simply confused in the moment as to what day it was, or(I hope I can explain this clearly!), if he had murdered Rebecca very late the previous day(screams were heard at 11:30p.m.), was his mind still at that event? Jonah phoned Rebecca at 12:30a.m. but got no reply ... was she already dead? Or possibly tied up and therefore not able to answer? Did Adam confront Rebecca inside Spreckels Mansion? Can anyone remember if Jonah phoned Adam that night to give him the bad news about Max's prospects? If he did, was that the reason why Adam went into Spreckels(if he did), and confronted Rebecca ..... blaming her for the situation?

Connected to this, IMO, is the very odd fact of Adam volunteering the information to the person in charge of the polygraph test, that he had been mast*****ing immediately before he found Rebecca!!! Why on earth would he say that, apparently out of the blue? I think he said it to 'head off at the pass' any questions there may have been if his semen had been found on her body(which I don't think it was), assuming there was a sexual aspect to his attacking her(assuming that he did). I've just thought of another less sinister reason: maybe he had been pleasuring himself immediately before finding Rebecca, not washed his hands and then realised after cutting her down that his DNA could be on her.

Another point: Rebecca claimed Max said 'Ocean'(the name of his dog), while she was giving him CPR, but if he was able to speak, why was she giving him CPR?

Something that I don't ever remember being mentioned before was a book supposedly found in the room Rebecca jumped from. It was a black magic book with pictures in it of an initiation ritual, showing a figure tied up exactly as Rebecca was .... red rope and all! Does anyone here remember this being mentioned before?

I was reminded that after Rebecca's naked body was cut down it was left all day in the sun, was never covered up. Did the police ever give a reason for allowing this? Could that situation damage evidence?

A photo was shown of her bound ankles and pushed under the rope was a yellow tube(plastic? card?), about an inch in diameter and about four/five inches long. Does anyone remember what this was or suggestions as to why it was there?

Another interesting point was that the writing on the door was at the height someone of Adam's height would naturally reach to, not Rebecca who was a lot shorter than him. Plus, the 'M's were quite distinct and the same as Adam wrote 'M's.

Even though there was no blood on her hands, the police suggested that Rebecca had used the bloody-handled knife to cut the rope.

If only Rebecca's fingerprints were found in the room(which in itself is odd), this suggests to me that the true perpetrator of the crime was very careful to wipe up after themselves.

  

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susieice

Good points Ouija Ouija. Without going back and rereading the thread we had I just don't remember if Jonah called Adam that night to tell him about Max. I would think he probably did. As to his mast*****ing, he said he did that in the guest house but I don't recall if any was found there. I don't think there was. Maybe that's why he said that. 

Max was unconscious after the fall. The EMT's also did CPR when they arrived and Max never came out of the coma up until his death. A lot of people questioned why Rebecca said that. 

I do remember that book being mentioned. If it remember right, it was Rockstar who talked about it. I don't remember ever hearing about a yellow tube. I don't know why someone would put that there. I remember the writing being discussed at Adam's trial. 

Having a time just trying to remember everything we discussed, there was so much. So I looked and I found this link from Oxygen that raises good questions. Wow. No broken vertebra in the neck? That really doesn't indicate a forceful hanging. I can see why they are saying she was lowered and not dropped.

This is also from the link below. There was a second knife involved. Blood on her legs would have been normal as she was menstruating at the time. This also does not mention a yellow tube. That had to be placed there after the body was found.

Another disturbing clue found at the scene was a knife covered in Zahau’s menstrual blood. The blood was found on all four sides of the knife’s handle, Greer said, suggesting the handle had been used in some type of sexual assault.

According to the San Diego Sheriff’s Department, no fingerprints were found on the knife.

A second, larger knife was also found in the bedroom. Rebecca’s fingerprints were found on the blade of the knife, and crime scene analysts found a mixture of DNA from at least two people on that knife, although the “sample provided an insufficient amount of information for conclusions or comparisons,” Lieutenant Williams said last December.

https://www.oxygen.com/death-at-the-mansion-rebecca-zahau/crime-time/evidence-from-the-rebecca-zahau-scene-that-raises

The fingerprints have always bothered me. How did the killer (if there was one) so thoroughly remove their own fingerprints from every surface and leave Rebecca's which, if I recall right, were not smeared? They must have been wearing gloves to stay that clean imho. In the link they say how circumstances have to be just so to leave a fingerprint or DNA, but you'd think there would be at least one somewhere. According to the link, they found nothing from Adam on Rebecca even though he had cut her down and started CPR.

 

 

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Vincennes
On ‎6‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 7:44 AM, ouija ouija said:

The two hour documentary that I watched last Sunday threw up the following questions for me(apologies if this is going over old ground):

Certainly no apologies needed for that post !  Those are really some great observations !!  Here are a couple of things I remember.  

"Where you picked up the kid yesterday. " 
I don't remember that statement being questioned before but it seems to me like a darn good question.  What I remember is that there were two evening meals accounted for; the first, with a Doctor who had come in for a business meeting; the second, with just Jonah, Adam and Rebecca.  That would mean your right, he actually found her the morning of the third day. 

Did Jonah also call Adam that night ?
I don't think I've ever seen that brought up before but it's one that's so darn logical to ask.  Why wouldn't he?   Especially since Adam was staying in a guest house and wouldn't necessarily have contact with Rebecca until morning !  Of course the police bungled the investigation of Rebecca's phone so really they don't even have proof that call was actually made and VM erased.  That's just Jonah's story about what might have triggered her suicide.  So it may or may not have happened at all.  

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Regi
On 6/16/2019 at 6:44 AM, ouija ouija said:

Can anyone remember if Jonah phoned Adam that night to give him the bad news about Max's prospects?

The evidence (cell recs., civil trial testimony) is actually contrary to that.

On 6/16/2019 at 6:44 AM, ouija ouija said:

Something that I don't ever remember being mentioned before was a book supposedly found in the room Rebecca jumped from. It was a black magic book with pictures in it of an initiation ritual, showing a figure tied up exactly as Rebecca was .... red rope and all!

The book's rarely been mentioned, but what I also remember from it is that rituals were usually performed in the nude.

On 6/16/2019 at 6:44 AM, ouija ouija said:

I was reminded that after Rebecca's naked body was cut down it was left all day in the sun, was never covered up. Did the police ever give a reason for allowing this?

I don't know whether the body was ever covered or why not, but it seems to me that the reason it took all day is because they were waiting for the ME.

On 6/16/2019 at 6:44 AM, ouija ouija said:

A photo was shown of her bound ankles and pushed under the rope was a yellow tube(plastic? card?), about an inch in diameter and about four/five inches long. Does anyone remember what this was or suggestions as to why it was there? 

The rope was water ski rope, and the tube was the handle.

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skliss
On 5/29/2019 at 11:19 AM, Vincennes said:

and I don't think it was just Adam, I think Jonah was there too

I've been watching "Death at the Mansion" and they have security video of Jonah at the hospital. I think Adam went over there to get a little "something', somethin'" from his brothers mistress, was rejected, they struggled and he didn't want his very rich brother to find out what he tried to do. The guy is a boat captain, I don't know why they haven't  brought up that he would know knots.

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ouija ouija
Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, skliss said:

I've been watching "Death at the Mansion" and they have security video of Jonah at the hospital. I think Adam went over there to get a little "something', somethin'" from his brothers mistress, was rejected, they struggled and he didn't want his very rich brother to find out what he tried to do. The guy is a boat captain, I don't know why they haven't  brought up that he would know knots.

The thing about boat captains knowing knots was brought up(at some length), at the civil court trial of Adam. There's probably a link to the trial in the other, main thread. He claimed that he didn't have to use any knots or do any rope tying in his job. I can't remember whether or not he had to do knots when taking boat captaining exams.

Edited by ouija ouija
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susieice
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, skliss said:

I've been watching "Death at the Mansion" and they have security video of Jonah at the hospital. I think Adam went over there to get a little "something', somethin'" from his brothers mistress, was rejected, they struggled and he didn't want his very rich brother to find out what he tried to do. The guy is a boat captain, I don't know why they haven't  brought up that he would know knots.

That was covered in Adam's trial. So was Rebecca's ability to tie knots. She would sail often with Jonah and he testified to this. The videos of the trial are in the other thread.

Edited by susieice
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susieice
4 hours ago, ouija ouija said:

The thing about boat captains knowing knots was brought up(at some length), at the civil court trial of Adam. There's probably a link to the trial in the other, main thread. He claimed that he didn't have to use any knots or do any rope tying in his job. I can't remember whether or not he had to do knots when taking boat captaining exams.

I should have read your response before I posted. :lol: Yes. The videos of the trial are all in the other thread. He did have to do the knots when taking the exams. He testified about how he had to know them.

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Regi
On 6/16/2019 at 6:44 AM, ouija ouija said:

if he had murdered Rebecca very late the previous day(screams were heard at 11:30p.m.)

Another interesting point was that the writing on the door was at the height someone of Adam's height would naturally reach to, not Rebecca who was a lot shorter than him.

Even though there was no blood on her hands, the police suggested that Rebecca had used the bloody-handled knife to cut the rope.

These issues were addressed at the press conference (linked below), which I don't recall has been previously posted.

Also, in respect of "no blood on her hands", this is contrary to the observations at autopsy (page 7 of autopsy report, page 10 of pdf).

https://www.autopsyfiles.org/reports/Other/zahau, rebecca_report.pdf

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ouija ouija

I don't have time to read the links right now, but I certainly will later on. Thanks for posting them, Regi.

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Regi
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

I don't have time to read the links right now, but I certainly will later on. Thanks for posting them, Regi.

I'd like to add to your comment that "only Rebecca's fingerprints were found in the room", that's also addressed at the press conference and my take-away from the p.c. is that there actually were other prints recovered, it's just that there were no other prints recovered that were suitable for analysis.

Edited by Regi
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