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Spreckels Murder: two new documentaries

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Vincennes
4 minutes ago, Robotic Jew said:

I can see that I suppose. It just seems like an odd thing to overlook if you've also successfully removed all fingerprints from the tools you used to commit the act. Unless we are also suggesting there were prints and the police covered that up or didn't do all they could to collect the evidence because the dude was rich. That's asking for a lot more than 1 or 2 evil people to be hanging around this one family. 

I'm afraid I do think the police did the absolute worse job they could collecting evidence.  Now whether that was because they are stupid and inept or devious I don't know.  

I also think Jonah had a lot of clout in the investigation.  The dude was not just rich as you say, the dude was a hefty political donor for years before the murder !  He had so much initial clout that they allowed his attorney to walk around the crime scene with no questions before the investigation soon after the police got there.  That's horrifying.  I had found just how rich Jonah was and what a political influence he had during the time we were doing the first thread.  Jonah had actually gone to Washington DC right after graduation and had worked for a Senator or Congressman.  It was an entry level job into politics but he moved on to something more lucrative.  In fact, one of the documentaries mentioned that.  Because Sheriff Bill Gore mentioned there been no contribution from Jonah, I wanted to see if they were the same political party.  BUT now, when I go back and pull his bio, everything on that has disappeared.  I used ever search engine I could in every way possible could find nothing.

24 minutes ago, Robotic Jew said:

 

A kid she was directly responsible for and by all accounts deeply cared for died in what looks to be a horrible accident. People have killed themselves over less. And notes are not usually left at suicides and people have been known to bind themselves before hanging to make sure that they go through with it or don't back out. 

This is not correct, people USUALLY leave suicide notes but they are not usually ones that are meant to be so strange people can't figure it out.  

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Robotic Jew
14 minutes ago, Vincennes said:

I'm afraid I do think the police did the absolute worse job they could collecting evidence.  Now whether that was because they are stupid and inept or devious I don't know.  

I also think Jonah had a lot of clout in the investigation.  The dude was not just rich as you say, the dude was a hefty political donor for years before the murder !  He had so much initial clout that they allowed his attorney to walk around the crime scene with no questions before the investigation soon after the police got there.  That's horrifying.  I had found just how rich Jonah was and what a political influence he had during the time we were doing the first thread.  Jonah had actually gone to Washington DC right after graduation and had worked for a Senator or Congressman.  It was an entry level job into politics but he moved on to something more lucrative.  In fact, one of the documentaries mentioned that.  Because Sheriff Bill Gore mentioned there been no contribution from Jonah, I wanted to see if they were the same political party.  BUT now, when I go back and pull his bio, everything on that has disappeared.  I used ever search engine I could in every way possible could find nothing.

This is not correct, people USUALLY leave suicide notes but they are not usually ones that are meant to be so strange people can't figure it out.  

The numbers I can find state that only about 25 - 30% of suicides have notes. 

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Vincennes
1 minute ago, Robotic Jew said:

The numbers I can find state that only about 25 - 30% of suicides have notes. 

Well I'll be darn.  I thought it was exactly opposite of that.  Sorry.  That does, however, still leave the fact that the "note" is pretty mysteriously worded.  

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Vincennes

Here is something I've never been able to dismiss in my mind.  I'm taking these posts from the old thread.  We had been discussing the amount of food in her stomach:

Post 143

In the stomach, the food is bathed in hydrochloric acid, which further breaks down starches and initiates protein digestion. The stomach also acts like a blender, churning the food into a substance called chyme. Once the food is adequately churned, it is released in small increments into the small intestine. The rate of release varies, depending onicon1.png the amount of food matter already in the intestines. Often, if there is a lot of food in the stomach, this will initiate defecation in order to make room for more food. This is why people often have a bowel movement after a hearty meal. It takes anywhere from four to five hours for food to completely clear the stomach. This depends on the size of the stomach, the amount of food ingested, and the amount of material already in the intestines.

Read more: http://www.ehow.com/about_5072776_long-entire-digestive-process.html#ixzz2XFUVu4Jw

They left about 8:00 to get dinner, say an hour for finding a restaurant, ordering, and eating. That would take us to 9:00 p.m. Time of death was estimated at 1:00 am. There should be more than 2 ccs

Antilles, maybe it was the CPR not being administered that made him so angry. She had worked as a type of nurse for a laser eye doctor. So she should have had at least some CPR training. So it seems that might be something that really ticked him off. Also, he does have a history of domestic violence.

Post 147

 

I don't know if I've copied enough to make what I'm thinking clear.  But I never have gotten over I think they fudged Jonah's timeline using military -vs- civilian time.  

 

Long time since I dealt with military time. It just hit me...returning to the hospital at 20:00 is 8:00 pm. Did he leave the hospital at 8:00 or return at 8:00?

On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2013 at 9:16 AM, regi said:

Jonah Shacknai's whereabouts are well established. There's no question where the man was at any given time. When he left the hospital, he went to sleep at the Ronald MacDonald house. he and Dina both rarely left their son's bedside, and did so only out of necessity. Good Lord! Can that be understood?

Jonah, Adam, and Zahau had dinner at about 8:00 pm, so considering the digestive process, I don't think there would have been much to find as far as stomach contents considering TOD would have been hours later.

 

On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2013 at 1:29 PM, regi said:

Information in the search warrant for cell records states that after dinner, Jonah Shacknai returned to the hospital around 2000 hours. (That must have been why 8:00 pm. was stuck in my mind.)

 

So I do have a question, did Jonah leave the hospital at 8:00, eat at 8:00, or get back to the hospital at 20:00, also 8:00 ? I have seen other discrepancies in this reporting, so I don't doubt for a minute that's what you read but could you go back and check. I will be looking too......

Now you mentioned he left for Ronald McDonald house at 1:55 am. Ronald McDonald house was full. That's in the record. So where did he go at 1:55 am. When did he check in there... or do we have a case of, I'm going here but then I was there...... With no food in R stomach, this sets the timeframe for the murder after 1:00....Please let me know if you see an account of this time..... I'm looking too...........….

 

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Regi
3 hours ago, Vincennes said:
Ronald McDonald house was full.

It seems to me that that was the first night.

3 hours ago, Vincennes said:

Did he leave the hospital at 8:00 or return at 8:00?

Returned.

Zahau picked up Adam and together they picked up Jonah and Howard (Jonah's friend who'd flown in for support), dropped off Howard at the airport and went for dinner... as I recall, the restaurant was somewhere near the airport; Adam's testimony that the mood was "somber"... they went back to the hospital where Jonah and Zahau shared a little alone time and then Zahau and Adam went to the mansion.

Edit: Re: that last part, they went to the Ronald McDonald house where Jonah showed them around alittle.

Edited by Regi

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Vincennes
41 minutes ago, Regi said:

It seems to me that that was the first night.

You do realize that the post contained ^are from our first thread ??   Still that's the problem that "it seems "   My point was the times are stated in different manners which ends up confusing the issue and lends it's self to the possibility Jonah wasn't really accounted for until 20:00 or 8:00 p.m. NOT 8:00 am as LE has indicated.

 

41 minutes ago, Regi said:

Returned.

Deep sigh ~~

41 minutes ago, Regi said:

Zahau picked up Adam and together they picked up Jonah and Howard (Jonah's friend who'd flown in for support), dropped off Howard at the airport and went for dinner... as I recall, the restaurant was somewhere near the airport; Adam's testimony that the mood was "somber"... they went back to the hospital where Jonah and Zahau shared a little alone time and then Zahau and Adam went to the mansion.

Now it hasn't been 24 hrs. yet since you corrected me for "saying" Adam was at the first night's dinner.  Which is it ?  

Both of the time tables and attendance for both of those nights are questionable per the police reports.  If you'd just look at it instead of arguing first, maybe you'd be able to understand what I'm saying.  

Edited by Vincennes

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Vincennes

Post # 300

Here's a timeline I made from some of the information we had way back when.  All I'm saying here is that I think there was time for Jonah to be involved and that LE's account of where people looks to me to be more than just mistakes.

f I am looking at this correctly. This timeline shows the problem I have mentioned before in Jonah and Adam's whereabouts. I have copied clips from the timeline in blue so you can see a little better what is messed up here and it's not just this timeline. The police reports (and I think purposely mix up the evenings of the 11th and the 12th which allow Jonah to cover his time.

July 11th – mid morning Jonah walks/runs to the gym for a workout. July 11th – at about 10:00 AM Max’s fall from the 2nd floor to the foyer happens.

Jonah left to work out only as "mid morning." So what time exactly did he leave? Mid morning to me would pretty much be 10:00 a.m. which is pretty much when Max fell.

July 11th – Howard Lubner Jonah’s friend from PV Arizona also arrives some time on Monday.

Now, we have Howard Lubner arriving. What this doesn't mention is that Howard Lubner, Jonah's best friend, is actually Dr. Howard Lubner, a practicing physician. To me this is important because if Jonah had a physican there with him, then he knew a lot about Max's condition right then and there. Life support machines are not all that hard to read as far as oxygen content, etc. I also firmly believe even if Dr.'s are sometimes hesitant to tell parents how bad a condition is, they would have shared that information with another doctor. Susie, ask your RNs I'm anxious to see if they agree with me on that. Because if Im right, why is Jonah covering the fact that he knew just how bad Max was pretty much from the 11th. This kid's head was separated from his spine. Don't tell me they didn't know he was in a more than grave condition. They could not have put him on life support without knowing the exact position and injuries to his neck. Ask the RNs.

July 12th – at 1:55 AM Jonah attempts to stay at the Ronald McDonald House but it is full. He stays at a nearby hotel instead, the Homestead Inn.

Next we have the 11th continued to the morning of the 12th. Where is Howard ? Where did he stay ?

Per this timeline, Howard has been there the 11th through the 12th. The evening (6:00 pm.) They pick him up with Jonah and take him to the airport then Rebecca, Jonah and Adam have dinner.

July 12th – approx 6:00 PM Adam and Rebecca pick up Jonah and Howard from the hospital. They drop Howard off at the airport.

The problem here is this actually happened the evening of the 11th, not the 12th. Proof below.

July 12th – 7:34 PM outgoing 1 min phone call to Jonah.

An outgoing call to Jonah. Why an outgoing call? Unless they flew to the airport and restaurant. They are at dinner together.

July 12th 7:39 PM incoming 1 min phone call from Adam. July 12th

I guess Adam didn't eat much because he is now calling Rebecca too.

July 12th – at approx 8:00 PM Rebecca and Adam return home to Coronado mansion.

Next we see that maybe they are at dinner. Because they get back to the mansion until 8: pm and Jonah and Adam are with Rebecca at the mansion. This is covered by the fact they have mixed up the evening of the 11th and the evening of the 12th. There were actually two dinners here. One on the 11th after they take Howard to the airport, the other on the 12th, which seems to have happened later and it's questionable if they ate. Rebecca had no food in her stomach other than 3 ccs of a "green substance."

July 12th – 8:06 PM outgoing 27 min phone call to sister Mary July 12th

This would put Rebecca at the mansion the night she died with Adam and Jonah.

Then you have multiple text messages to/from "Rebecca" Well, they are text messages. Were they from Rebecca or just Rebecca's phone ?

July 13 – 12:30 AM Jonah claims he sent a voicemail message to Rebecca stating that Max’s condition was grave and his death was imminent.

July 13th – 12:50 AM allegedly Rebecca retrieves the voicemail message and deletes it. [there is no proof that Rebecca herself retrieved and deleted the voicemail]

No one really hears from Rebecca past that point. This puts doesn't put Jonah back into view until 1:00 p.m. That's ok because there is a time in the police reports. However, it's very hard to determine because those reports also mess up the 11th and the 12th also.

July 13th – at about 1:00 AM Jonah goes to the Ronald McDonald House.

Rebecca is said to have died at about 12:50 p.m. after she retrieved a VM from Jonah ???? Well, per this timeline. He was with her at the mansion until 1:00 p.m. Why the VM ?

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Vincennes
On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 1:15 PM, Regi said:

Can you help me by providing the source of that info? The thing is, I remember the info that 'he'd viewed porn shortly before discovery of the body' and while I'm not questioning whether that's fact, I can't recall the source nor have I been able to find it. 

Oh, looking through the previous thread, it was initially Peter Matson that brought the m********ing information to our old thread and you were participating in the discussion at that time.  Peter suggested that it reminded him of Skakel's m********ing information as kind of manipulation of the questioning technique.  Sound familiar now ?  

 

 

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Regi

I'm pretty sure that almost all of what I know about Jonah's timeline is from the search warrant at this link:

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_11-165.pdf

1 hour ago, Vincennes said:

July 11th – mid morning Jonah walks/runs to the gym for a workout. July 11th – at about 10:00 AM Max’s fall from the 2nd floor to the foyer happens.

 

Jonah left to work out only as "mid morning." So what time exactly did he leave? Mid morning to me would pretty much be 10:00 a.m. which is pretty much when Max fell.

If he gave a time in his civil trial testimony, I don't remember what it was, but I do seem to recall his testimony that he hadn't been at the gym very long before Zahau called to inform him of Max. It seems like he said about it was about 10 or 15 minutes...

I don't think I've ever heard mention of where the gym was located or how far/close to the mansion...

1 hour ago, Vincennes said:

July 12th 7:39 PM incoming 1 min phone call from Adam. July 12th

 

I guess Adam didn't eat much because he is now calling Rebecca too.

Well, I could only guess what that phone call was about...

 All I remember from Adam's civil trial testimony about calls between the two of them were those that occurred before she'd picked him up from the airport. 

2 hours ago, Vincennes said:

July 13th – 12:50 AM allegedly Rebecca retrieves the voicemail message and deletes it. [there is no proof that Rebecca herself retrieved and deleted the voicemail]

All I know to say to say is that I don't want or need such proof, I mean, to me, there's no reason to think it wasn't Zahau.

Here's a link to her cell rec. http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com//kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf

2 hours ago, Vincennes said:

Oh, looking through the previous thread, it was initially Peter Matson that brought the m********ing information to our old thread and you were participating in the discussion at that time. 

I remember the info that he'd viewed porn on his phone :o.. and I think I just assumed the other...:lol:

Seriously, the thing is, I'd have to hear the interview for myself before I'd accept other people characterizations as to how that info was divulged to police.

(I hope that's clear, and if it isn't please tell me how.)

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Vincennes
14 hours ago, Regi said:

I remember the info that he'd viewed porn on his phone :o.. and I think I just assumed the other...:lol:

Seriously, the thing is, I'd have to hear the interview for myself before I'd accept other people characterizations as to how that info was divulged to police.

(I hope that's clear, and if it isn't please tell me how.)

It doesn't really matter.  Your mind is made up and nothing, not even a jury's verdict of guilt, is going to change it and I haven't really been trying to.  What I've been doing is just venting my frustration that the police have gotten away with such an "investigation" that has so far allowed them to get away with no criminal charges.  

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