Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Scott Creighton

Lady Arbuthnot's Chamber (Question)

245 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

Scott Creighton
Posted (edited)

Hello UM,

Long time, no see.

Yes--my hobby-horse again, Colonel Vyse's Journal.

The images below are from the published account of Vyse and present the date each of the four hidden chambers within the Great Pyramid was opened by Vyse (in 1837) and when the painted quarry marks allegedly within each chamber were supposedly discovered:

Wellington's Chamber:

Lru1Ye5.jpg

Nelson's Chamber:

v50ry0O.png

Lady Arbuthnot's Chamber:

HbzSwKL.jpg

Campbell's Chamber:

ycDJxuC.png

z8app5O.png

(Vyse's full publication--Vol1--can be found here).

Notice in Vyse's journal entries (above) that (with the single exception of Lady Arbuthnot's Chamber), Vyse claims to have discovered all of the quarry marks on the very same day as each chamber was opened. Now, Lady Arbuthnot's Chamber presents, by some considerable margin, the most quarry marks of any of the four chambers opened by Vyse (painted across three different walls and presenting somewhere in the order of around seven full or partial cartouches along with many other hieratic signs).

Can any of the luminaries here on UM offer up any viable explanation as to why Colonel Vyse failed to notice any of the numerous markings in Lady Arbuthnot's Chamber on his initial visit when he was evidently able to do this for the other three chambers he blasted open? Keep in mind that Vyse makes no mention of any hindrance to observing the marks in this chamber and that he appears to have adequate lighting conditions to observe the state of the chamber on this initial visit. Keep in mind also that he had previously opened two of these chambers and had (allegedly) found marks therein and, as such, would likely have been fully anticipating finding more and specifically searching for this. But he apparently found not a single mark upon his initial examination of the chamber.

His comment that the marks were found only upon a subsequent "minute examination" (three days later) implies that all the marks in this chamber were somehow 'invisible' to him up until the "minute examination". But he states elsewhere in his published account that he found an "exudation" only upon the blocks in Campbell's Chamber and the Third Pyramid; an exudation that might possibly have hindered discovery. But, as stated, he makes no mention of such a hindrance or obstacle for this chamber.

What do you think may have been different about Lady Arbuthnot's Chamber that caused Vyse to fail to notice any of the numerous markings on his first visit to this chamber (as he had done with the other three chambers) and that it required a "minute examination" three days later to discover any of them?

Any ideas anyone?

SC

PS - Anyone merely commenting to throw abuse will be ignored.

Edited by Scott Creighton
  • Like 1
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not A Rockstar

I am not a luminary, but, perhaps it was just an oversight in his documentation? 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jaylemurph
36 minutes ago, Scott Creighton said:

PS - Anyone merely commenting to throw abuse will be ignored.

Ignored by you. 

Everyone here gets to choose what they react to, and how. You don't get to do that for them, or police who posts in the thread. 

—Jaylemurph 

  • Like 3
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scott Creighton
2 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

I am not a luminary, but, perhaps it was just an oversight in his documentation? 

Possible though very doubtful. This chamber (as we observe it today) presents the most partial and complete cartouches of Khnum_Khuf (the pyramid's builder). Failing to find the true burial of Khufu himself, finding these cartouches would have been a highly important discovery and Vyse would have been practically breathless to get writing bout it. He even writes elsewhere in his published account of the importance of these cartouches so I rather doubt this could have been an oversight and especially not for three days.

SC

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scott Creighton
Just now, jaylemurph said:

Ignored by you. 

Everyone here gets to choose what they react to, and how. You don't get to do that for them, or police who posts in the thread. 

—Jaylemurph 

I get to ignore who I want to ignore. And I do when they throw abuse around as happens quite often when I post here.

SC

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jaylemurph
Just now, Scott Creighton said:

I get to ignore who I want to ignore. And I do when they throw abuse around as happens quite often when I post here.

SC

Are you going to actually wait til such comments appear, or are you already heaving yourself up onto that cross in expectant martyrdom?

—Jaylemurph

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not A Rockstar

Then, what is your supposition for the oversight? Either he measured and waited to detail his finding, or they were not there until three days later? Help me understand your point, please.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dumbledore the Awesome

It sounds like a piece of 19th century pornography for the gentry.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sir Wearer of Hats

*checks roster* looks like it’s my turn to be the abusive one.

your mother smells like elderberries and your father was a hampster.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Swede
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

PS - Anyone merely commenting to throw abuse will be ignored.

How precious. You once again attempt to mine the knowledge-base of these pages in order to further your personal monetary ventures. Certainly the mark of a credible researcher. However, do not let your distinct lack of worthwhile contribution to Egyptology deter you from your tiresome practices.

Edit: Punctuation.

 

Edited by Swede
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scott Creighton
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Then, what is your supposition for the oversight? Either he measured and waited to detail his finding, or they were not there until three days later? Help me understand your point, please.

Thanks for your response.

If the painted quarry marks existed in the chamber during Vyse's first visit to it (i.e. on the day he blasted it open), then it would certainly appear that there was an oversight because he makes no mention of having discovered any marks at all in this chamber in his account of this first day. The apparent oversight is confirmed on 9th May (three days later) when Vyse tells us that he discovered the quarry marks in this chamber only on this date after a "minute examination" of the chamber had taken place. So he's effectively confirming here that he saw nothing during his first visit, hence why there is no entry in his journal of any discovery on the first day he entered this chamber.

At least, that's how it appears.

Which is odd because these painted marks are large, bold, numerous and hardly missable.

So how could he have possibly missed them on that first day? He didn't miss the marks on the first day in the other chambers. What's different about this chamber (which, as I've said, has more marks than any of the others)? Which goes  back to my original question. It makes little sense to me that he could have missed all of the marks in this chamber hence why I am asking the views of others for other possible, viable explanations.

Thanks again.

SC

Edited by Scott Creighton
  • Thanks 2
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not A Rockstar

Well, he paid a lot of mind to the size so I imagine he and his pal carrying a torch to measure that before heading to town and then he returns and has to do a minute search (?! odd in itself if these are so big...minute?) and checks the walls and notes them then.

But, what do I know? 

Thanks for explaining :) 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
blackdogsun

As illustrated in Vyse' 'Operations Carried on the Pyramids of Gizeh' on p280, many of the markings cannot be seen because the granite block in the center of the room extends almost to the ceiling, requiring one to climb right into the chamber for closer scrutiny to do so.

Vyse says that he continued the excavations to the other chamber above before doing so. Hence the laps of a few days before a closer examination of the far end of the chamber revealed the other markings.

 

FIGURE-19.jpg

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mstower
31 minutes ago, Scott Creighton said:

Which is odd because these painted marks are large, bold, numerous and hardly missable.

You know this by personal inspection?

32 minutes ago, Scott Creighton said:

So how could he have possibly missed them on that first day? He didn't miss the marks on the first day in the other chambers. . . .

That’s not what Sitchin says.  Remember him?  You should do, as you’re trying right now to rehabilitate one of his bogus arguments.

M.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kenemet
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Scott Creighton said:

If the painted quarry marks existed in the chamber during Vyse's first visit to it (i.e. on the day he blasted it open), then it would certainly appear that there was an oversight because he makes no mention of having discovered any marks at all in this chamber in his account of this first day. The apparent oversight is confirmed on 9th May (three days later) when Vyse tells us that he discovered the quarry marks in this chamber only on this date after a "minute examination" of the chamber had taken place. So he's effectively confirming here that he saw nothing during his first visit, hence why there is no entry in his journal of any discovery on the first day he entered this chamber.

Bad lighting with a combination of dates.

The initial entrance was late on Saturday afternoon and I note that Vyse says they were more focused on getting to the chamber above it; the cursory examination didn't show artifacts of interest so they moved on and documented later.  The next day is Sunday, when he went to Cairo and didn't work.  He didn't get back to the pyramids until Monday afternoon, and that was delayed by the execution of a woman and from a rock falling from the cliff.  He didn't go to work at all on Monday.

Resumed on Tuesday.

I fail to see any mystery here.

Edited by Kenemet
  • Like 5
  • Thanks 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tatetopa

Being totally ignorant of the subject, I did learn three valuable things:

Chambers in pyramids are named after British Gentry.

Blasting holes in walls is an acceptable tool for serious archaeology.

Searching for quarry marks is an acceptable excuse for vandalism.

 

Thanks.

 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 2
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hanslune
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Bad lighting with a combination of dates.

The initial entrance was late on Saturday afternoon and I note that Vyse says they were more focused on getting to the chamber above it; the cursory examination didn't show artifacts of interest so they moved on and documented later.  The next day is Sunday, when he went to Cairo and didn't work.  He didn't get back to the pyramids until Monday afternoon, and that was delayed by the execution of a woman and from a rock falling from the cliff.  He didn't go to work at all on Monday.

Resumed on Tuesday.

I fail to see any mystery here.

There has to be a mystery or Scott has nothing to write about....therefore he creates one...lol.....or more correctly takes up Sitchin's failed idea and tries to resuitate that reeking corpse.

I wonder how he explains Goyon's discovery?

 

Edited by Hanslune
darn spell check changed reeking to feeling
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hanslune
2 hours ago, mstower said:

You know this by personal inspection?

That’s not what Sitchin says.  Remember him?  You should do, as you’re trying right now to rehabilitate one of his bogus arguments.

M.

Hey M. Question aren't there three names in those relieving chambers?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ell
11 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

Hello UM,

Long time, no see.

Yes--my hobby-horse again, Colonel Vyse's Journal.

The images below are from the published account of Vyse and present the date each of the four hidden chambers within the Great Pyramid was opened by Vyse (in 1837) and when the painted quarry marks allegedly within each chamber were supposedly discovered:

Wellington's Chamber:

Nelson's Chamber:

v50ry0O.pngLru1Ye5.jpg

Lady Arbuthnot's Chamber:

HbzSwKL.jpg

Campbell's Chamber:

ycDJxuC.png

z8app5O.png

(

 

What do you think may have been different about Lady Arbuthnot's Chamber that caused Vyse to fail to notice any of the numerous markings on his first visit to this chamber (as he had done with the other three chambers) and that it required a "minute examination" three days later to discover any of them?

He was in a hurry to get to Cairo, so instead of examining the Chamber, he in haste continued the excavation in order to get above it.

It was only when he got back from Cairo that he had time to examine the chamber.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scott Creighton
Posted (edited)

Well, thus far no one has been able to offer what I consider to be a reasonable explanation why Colonel Vyse could have missed a whole bunch of these painted onto the wall blocks of LA's Chamber:

img%5D

The main reason for his failure, according to the comments thus far, is that Vyse nor Mr Raven (who was with him at the time) noticed any of the quarry marks during the initial visit due to poor lighting (wasn't a barrier in the chambers below) or because they were in a rush and not giving it too much attention.

Vyse and Raven are evidently examining the wall blocks in this chamber during this first visit as Vyse remarks “...and with a greater proportion of calcerous stone on the northern and southern sides...” He’s looking right at the walls here, people. He had time enough and adequate lighting to make measurements of the chamber. Are we seriously trying to say that during this activity he failed to notice a single one of these quarry marks? Seriously?

As I mentioned previously, having found quarry marks in the chambers below, it is not unreasonable to suggest that Vyse would have been fully anticipating finding more in Lady Arbuthnot’s Chamber and, indeed, that he would have been specifically searching for quarry marks upon these walls.

They’re big, bold and everywhere in this chamber:

FIGURE-19.jpg

But on this first visit Vyse and Raven notice Nada. Zilch. Zippo. Hee-haw.

Why?

SC

PS – Keep in mind also that this is the very same chamber where this bizarre event took place shortly after the quarry marks were ‘found’ in this chamber.

Edited by Scott Creighton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mstower
7 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

PS – Keep in mind also that this is the very same chamber where this bizarre event took place shortly after the quarry marks were ‘found’ in this chamber.

A “bizarre event” which “took place” in your imagination.

Readers may wish (having followed the link) to scroll down.

M.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mstower
15 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Hey M. Question aren't there three names in those relieving chambers?

As mostly usually rendered in texts in English: (the Horus) Medjedu, Khnum-Khufu, Khufu:

 

AlX2qE.png

 

Sj7VV8.png

 

KztBiZ.png

 

M.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mstower

A cap from footage taken in Lady Arbuthnot’s Chamber:

0eI6fH.jpg

Suggests to me that the ˤpr names (which contain the royal names) might not be so glaringly obvious as Creighton makes out.

Need we point out also that Vyse most likely did not have a Cree or a Maglite?

M.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sir Wearer of Hats
2 hours ago, mstower said:

A cap from footage taken in Lady Arbuthnot’s Chamber:

0eI6fH.jpg

Suggests to me that the ˤpr names (which contain the royal names) might not be so glaringly obvious as Creighton makes out.

Need we point out also that Vyse most likely did not have a Cree or a Maglite?

M.

We’ve been pointing that out for years, certain people just hand wave it away with “well, everyone else had a flaming torch as well, how come only some saw the marks?”

  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scott Creighton
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

We’ve been pointing that out for years, certain people just hand wave it away with “well, everyone else had a flaming torch as well, how come only some saw the marks?”

Sure. It makes absolute sense that two men were able to miss absolutely every single quarry mark in this chamber when they were able to find similar (much fewer) painted marks on the first inspection of the other three chambers. Hill had no problem seeing them. Neither did Perring or, much later, Rowe. 

But Vyse and Raven - they saw hee-haw during their inspection.

Sure. That makes perfect sense - to those who prefer to pull the wool over their own eyes and believe in such a highly improbable scenario. On you go - knock yourselves out. I won't be following you unless someone who still believes these marks are genuine can explain this scenario in a rational and plausible manner.

I guess I'll probably be waiting some time.

SC

Edited by Scott Creighton
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.