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sci-nerd

Let's talk about the Devil

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sci-nerd
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...Satan was not a prominent figure in Judaism. There are few demon-like figures in Hebrew scripture, but the most famous one appears in the Book of Job. In that book, an "adversary" or "tempter" asks God whether the prosperous man Job would continue to praise God after losing everything. God takes up the challenge, and strips Job of his wealth and family, leaving the man wondering why such a horrible fate befell him.

But in this story, God wields more power than this adversary; as such, this evil tempter challenges God, who then takes away Job's fortune...

Quote

...Satan suddenly appears in the gospels as the tempter of Jesus, with nary an introduction of how the evil presence got there. So, Christian theologians have come to this conclusion: If God created the universe, and everything God creates is good, then Satan must have been something good that went bad...

Source: https://www.livescience.com/56341-where-did-satan-come-from.html

 

Satan might be older than 2,000 years (not!), but God failed to mention him to his chosen people, the Jews. In fact his first appearance, as an enemy of Christ(ians), is in the desert temptation, in the Mark gospel, written 30-40 years after the death af Jesus. Paul and John took it further in the letters and the Revelation, making him a super villain.

So, it's safe to say that Satan himself was born around the year 70-95 AD, from ideas that started with the Hasids in the previous century.

Do you, as a Christian (or Muslim) think that Satan is real, despite his very late arrival in both scripture and history? If so, why would God wait so long to warn against him? And what's the point of having an enemy when you're omnipotent, and can wipe him out with a snap of your fingers?

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danydandan

I vaguely remember a passage that infers that Lucifer is the Lord of this World, however I can't remember if I'm just making that up or if it's actually in the a holy book. I'm sure I will be corrected if incorrect. 

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Piney
15 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

So, it's safe to say that Satan himself was born around the year 70-95 AD, from ideas that started with the Hasids in the previous century.

He came from the Zoroastrian influence on Christianity. Many of the first Non-Jewish converts were members of that religious group.

1 minute ago, danydandan said:

I vaguely remember a passage that infers that Lucifer is the Lord of this World, however I can't remember if I'm just making that up or if it's actually in the a holy book. I'm sure I will be corrected if incorrect. 

A Incorrect translation actually describing the king of Babylon. 

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sci-nerd
6 minutes ago, danydandan said:

I vaguely remember a passage that infers that Lucifer is the Lord of this World, however I can't remember if I'm just making that up or if it's actually in the a holy book. I'm sure I will be corrected if incorrect. 

If I recall correctly, Satan says to Jesus in the desert temptation (something like): I was given this world, to rule over it.

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danydandan
4 minutes ago, Piney said:

He came from the Zoroastrian influence on Christianity. Many of the first Non-Jewish converts were members of that religious group.

A Incorrect translation actually describing the king of Babylon. 

Ah your right now I remember Isaiah 14, but is it not something to do with The Morning Star in ancient Hebrew astronomy? Rather than a King or is the star a Christian thing?

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sci-nerd
Just now, XenoFish said:

You mean it's all made up? 

You betcha!

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danydandan
2 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

If I recall correctly, Satan says to Jesus in the desert temptation (something like): I was given this world, to rule over it.

I'm talking OT not NT or ET.

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XenoFish
Just now, sci-nerd said:

You betcha!

Shouldn't we quarantine this memetic hazard? 

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Piney
2 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Ah your right now I remember Isaiah 14, but is it not something to do with The Morning Star in ancient Hebrew astronomy? Rather than a King or is the star a Christian thing?

Isaiah was calling the King of Babylon the Morning Star. (Lucifer) 

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Will Due

 

Of Lucifer it was said: "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom because of your brightness."

"How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How are you cast down, you who dared to confuse the worlds!"

 

 

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danydandan
Just now, Piney said:

Isaiah was calling the King of Babylon the Morning Star. (Lucifer) 

Piney ye big Biblical scholar ye!

Thanks though, I remember now. It's a Latin name in the OT, thus it doesn't belong.

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Piney

 

1 minute ago, Will Due said:

 

Of Lucifer it was said: "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom because of your brightness."

"How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How are you cast down, you who dared to confuse the worlds!"

Describing the King of Babylon.

Mistranslated by the Vulgate authors and grabbed by the authors of the King James version 

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sci-nerd
2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Of Lucifer it was said: "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom because of your brightness."

"How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How are you cast down, you who dared to confuse the worlds!"

3 minutes ago, Piney said:

Isaiah was calling the King of Babylon the Morning Star. (Lucifer) 

 

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Piney
1 minute ago, danydandan said:

Piney ye big Biblical scholar ye!

Glad I can do something with my seminarian certificate. :)

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XenoFish

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Piney
5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Here are something that might lead to something useful for this thread.

A interesting note. A lot of Virgin Mary statues in Rome, Southern Europe- Mediterranean are rededicated Isis statues. 

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sci-nerd
6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

The Christ myth is a different issue. This is about the Satan myth.

Satan is used as a method to convert people with fear as a motivator.

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Piney
5 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

Satan is used as a method to convert people with fear as a motivator.

:yes: Even more so with Evangelicals. 

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XenoFish
Just now, sci-nerd said:

The Christ myth is a different issue. This is about the Satan myth.

Satan is used as a method to convert people with fear as a motivator.

Context. If Christianity is a solar based religion based off the Horus myth, we can probably see why the "Morningstar" is trying to be greater than god (morning star being venus).

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/bible-interpretation/who-is-satan/

https://www.livescience.com/56341-where-did-satan-come-from.html

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XenoFish

Every hero needs a villain. Jesus is the hero and "satan" is the villain. Yet, all of it is made up, taken from other myths and stories. 

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Piney
3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Context. If Christianity is a solar based religion based off the Horus myth, we can probably see why the "Morningstar" is trying to be greater than god (morning star being venus).

 

Solar based. But Zoroastrian solar based. 

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Will Due

 

I'm going to post a few things from the UB regarding the focus of this thread. I know a lot of you will ridicule it but nonetheless, it's one of the most significant things the UB offers up. You know, that someday, "all things hidden shall be known". Because like it is with all criminals, eventually, they run out of places to hide. 

Anyways, here goes . . .

 

 

"The Lucifer Manifesto

Whatever the early origins of trouble in the hearts of Lucifer and Satan, the final outbreak took form as the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty. The cause of the rebels was stated under three heads:

1. The reality of the Universal Father. Lucifer charged that the Universal Father did not really exist, that physical gravity and space-energy were inherent in the universe, and that the Father was a myth invented by the Paradise Sons to enable them to maintain the rule of the universes in the Father's name. He denied that personality was a gift of the Universal Father. He even intimated that the finaliters were in collusion with the Paradise Sons to foist fraud upon all creation since they never brought back a very clear-cut idea of the Father's actual personality as it is discernible on Paradise. He traded on reverence as ignorance. The charge was sweeping, terrible, and blasphemous. It was this veiled attack upon the finaliters that no doubt influenced the ascendant citizens then on Jerusem to stand firm and remain steadfast in resistance to all the rebel's proposals.

 

Spoiler

 

2. The universe government of the Creator Son—Michael. Lucifer contended that the local systems should be autonomous. He protested against the right of Michael, the Creator Son, to assume sovereignty of Nebadon in the name of a hypothetical Paradise Father and require all personalities to acknowledge allegiance to this unseen Father. He asserted that the whole plan of worship was a clever scheme to aggrandize the Paradise Sons. He was willing to acknowledge Michael as his Creator-father but not as his God and rightful ruler.

Most bitterly did he attack the right of the Ancients of Days—"foreign potentates"—to interfere in the affairs of the local systems and universes. These rulers he denounced as tyrants and usurpers. He exhorted his followers to believe that none of these rulers could do aught to interfere with the operation of complete home rule if men and angels only had the courage to assert themselves and boldly claim their rights.

He contended that the executioners of the Ancients of Days could be debarred from functioning in the local systems if the native beings would only assert their independence. He maintained that immortality was inherent in the system personalities, that resurrection was natural and automatic, and that all beings would live eternally except for the arbitrary and unjust acts of the executioners of the Ancients of Days.

 

Spoiler

 

3. The attack upon the universal plan of ascendant mortal training. Lucifer maintained that far too much time and energy were expended upon the scheme of so thoroughly training ascending mortals in the principles of universe administration, principles which he alleged were unethical and unsound. He protested against the agelong program for preparing the mortals of space for some unknown destiny and pointed to the presence of the finaliter corps on Jerusem as proof that these mortals had spent ages of preparation for some destiny of pure fiction. With derision he pointed out that the finaliters had encountered a destiny no more glorious than to be returned to humble spheres similar to those of their origin. He intimated that they had been debauched by overmuch discipline and prolonged training, and that they were in reality traitors to their mortal fellows since they were now co-operating with the scheme of enslaving all creation to the fictions of a mythical eternal destiny for ascending mortals. He advocated that ascenders should enjoy the liberty of individual self-determination. He challenged and condemned the entire plan of mortal ascension as sponsored by the Paradise Sons of God and supported by the Infinite Spirit.

And it was with such a Declaration of Liberty that Lucifer launched his orgy of darkness and death.

 

 

 

 

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XenoFish

Wow, page one and the UB has been brought up. 

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sci-nerd

Jesus is Horus. Satan is of Zoroastrian origin.

The truth will set you free,it's said.

So are the evangelicals truth resistant? Are they the messengers of lies, they themselves warn about?

It seems so.

They call themselves the light of the world, but they despise knowledge and proven truth.

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