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7 minutes ago, odas said:

But he sure likes to **** around with us.

I think we do that to ourselves.  If God was so involved with our lives we would not be so divided.  Any **** happens in your own mind.

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On 5/28/2019 at 6:22 PM, sci-nerd said:

Elohim is the original Hebrew name for God. It means "the transsexual god". The god who has two genders.

In Genesis the transsexual God said:

US! Not "me", but us!

Besides, "Elohim" is plural, so "one God" fails from the beginning.

Is anything in the Abrahamic religions coherent?

Where are you getting your information?

A study of the more original Semitic language of the "Hebrews", West Semitic, shows this claim to be false.

Elohim, is the two conjoined words "Eloh-im", "Im", being a suffix, noting plurality, in a specific sense. "Im", comes from the two letters, "Yad and Meym", the pictograms of both a "Arm and Hand", and "water", in that order.

There are at least two suffix that note plurality, in West Semitic, one of these, "I(ee)", a suffix that notes a single "clan", usually detailing a smaller group, as the "Arm and Hand", extends out from the body, and stretches into five fingers; just like a single father may raise many children, as an extension of his single self. The arm represents the father, the fingers his extensive sons...; and the next suffix, already aforementioned, "Im(eem/yam)", noting a more vast plurality, like a "nation", consisting of multiple clans, and thence notes larger groups. The pictogram of "Im" is the depiction of a "waterway extending broadly", like a "River", or "Sea", and represents, more abstractly, a "Nation", like the "single father who has children without count, a sea". What "Im" then notes, is a plurality much more than two, or five, but enormous, without count.

Elohim, is actually not the original word for "One god", and was not used to denote "God", but more like, "Gods". Although, the singular of the word, does not really translate to "God" at all, this is actually just an interpretation, from English speakers. The more literal translation, to English, would be more like so: El(Mighty shephard/ Ox of authority)-uh(bond+another[fem] )-im(nation), and if we may refine this word, "Nation of [she] mighty shephards of promise", or "Nation of ox who yokes with another[fem]" . Even the root word to "Eloh", which is "Elah", has an extended meaning, translating as, "promise", or "Oath". As it was once understood, among the culture and people of "Yesrael", that when you have oxen plow a field, you put one experienced ox with a younger ox, both "Yoked" together, the older being more experienced, is the teacher, and authority over the younger. It was said, that the oath with men, or "god", was very much the same thing, where a person of "Authority", yoked themselves in an oath, with another, arriving to a destination. Furthermore, Elohim, can more simply be translated, "Powers", as the extended meaning of the literality, is "the power or might of one who rules or teaches", as "One who yokes with another", has power over the younger other.

Now, the problem with western interpretations of the "Abrahamic religion", or language, is, they interpret from their western philosophy, which itself, works as an entirely different system of thought. To truly understand the culture and religion of Eastern people, namely, Israel, we need to interpret from an Eastern philosophy. As, Western philosophy is based upon the greek perspective, of abstracts and appearances; the Eastern philosophy is based upon concretes and functions. In other words, Western thought judges by how something looks to be, while Eastern judges by how something acts to be. In the languages of Western thought, words are typically abstract from the start, conveying concepts that cannot be sensed by any of the external senses, that is, they are not anything you can typically see, hear, smell, taste or touch. However, in the Eastern languages, words are typically concrete from the start, conveying concepts that can be sensed by sight, hearing, smell, taste, or touch. As an example, the word "Aph", literally means "Ox-tent vent", and translates as "Nose", as the "vent in the face of the Ox", and this word, starting from a concrete thing, a nose, which you can feel, and see, can extend into an abstract meaning, "Anger"; as a "person who becomes angry, flairs his nostrils".

And so, Elohim, does not denote any bisexuality or duality, but rather a full circle, of many expressions, without number; that is all manner of attributes and characteristics. In a Eastern perspective, the "Abrahamic religion" and language, are quite different than many suspect. 

There are old Oral traditions, that were kept among the "Kohen-im", and were passed down to the people, in the allotted season and holy day, which are in modern day, transcribed into writing, and here, English translators make the mistake of interpreting in western philosophy, the texts, which causes a loss in the original meaning of these texts, and even error in translation. To understand how "Yesrael" or an "Abrahamic" nations viewed their deity, we must ask them, not their Western neighbors, not ourselves, but the ones who descend from and understand their own philosophy from how it was founded.

The Israelites believed there was one powerful spirit, who caused all darkness to stir into motion, and united all living things, causing stone to live. There was a "singularity", that could be observed through "plurality", in the sense that all life were simply mixtures of light and of dark, expressing aspects of his divine nature. Through nature, and the stars, we began to watch his character play out, expressing in the form of actions, or deeds, as the virtue of all creatures, which revealed who he was. He was therefore defined by man, through all life's actions. Therefore, his spirit was really all and one, simultaneously, as one unified "Wind", and "Fire", making move the stone womb of the universe.

Now then, the word Elohim, is denoting the Malak(Semitic for Messengers, and in Greek Angelos), like stars, as expressions of the one spirit. Thus in the beginning, the one "wind" stirred all life into motion through the "powers". For, the very same Israelites believed that all the stars were one in spirit, as many powers, unified as one power. There is an old oral tradition of this, and although I do not possess the exact story, it goes something like this: The great and expansive world around you, even as far as the stars, is like a sea, where you never see the end, around and below you. She is a great womb, who receives the seed from her husband, and within her, is brought all life, into motion, as living stone. Here the children of the "Wind" will eat, grow, walk, and finally fly, so that they be born of her womb, as the stars. For the great world, we call womb, is like a massive tent, which conceals her family in the heat of the day, so that when the children look up, at the ceiling of her, they see the great "Sun", shining his hot rays, through her fabric, as twinkling stars. 

And so, it was believed that the stars were all actually just portions of one great star that we could see through the tent fabric of the universe. The Abrahamic peoples, dwelled in tents, that were made of goat hair, woven in crosshatched pattern, so that, if you were inside during the "heat of the day(Midday)" and you looked up at the ceiling, you would see the sun shining through the fabric, as twinkling beams of light, which resembled stars, in a functional way. Thus, the people believed that all stars were expressions, or many faces, of one great face. This is why Elohim, in modern era, is considered singular, and this is why "Phanim(faces)", is also considered singular.

 

In terms of the Bereshit, or beginnings, in English bibles, called "Genesis", the word Elohim, from an Eastern man's perspective, who has been educated of his people's way, will read it as the many powers, of one power. The problem here is that great empires like Babylon, and Rome, did their best to confiscate relics, and destroy/abduct knowledge keepers, so that they may make the people ignorant of their origins, and thus make them dependent on the empire. We have seen this again and again with Native American peoples, and the USA. Oh, by the way, there is speculation that even the "Hebrew" Bible, has undergone textual changes throughout the thousands of years, and this is evidenced, with the differences in the Samaritan bible to that of the Jewish bible, and the numerous dead sea scrolls, also in comparison to the current accepted Jewish texts. For example, the Book of Jubilee, being both a dead sea scroll, and from other sources, has many added details in a series of events, involved with the stories of key figures, of the genealogies, which entail reasons by which certain names and practices exist to this day among the "Yahudim", which the standard "Jewish bible", cannot account for...

Perhaps, the original text of Bereshit started with an A, or "Aleph", instead of a B, or "Beyt", as the Semitic language, is inexplicably linked to the philosophy of the people (all languages are directly linked to their cultures philosophy), and being intertwined, served as a symbolic representation of the "word" spoken of "God". Why would the beginning text start with the second letter, when the "Aleph" is known to be a pictogram of the "Ox", representing, the "first" animal you would pick to plough your field, as he is the "strong"est animal, and would "begin" the ploughing from start to the finished destination. This is what some say, and it does make a bit of sense; if we then make "Bereshit", "Ab-ereshit", the text may change as follows: from, "Berashit(In the beginning) bara(fattened/created) Elhim(Oxen of promise/powers) et(ox-destine/with)  ha'shemim(the fiery sea/the heavens) wa'et(and with) ha'eretz(the earth)", to "Ab(father) rashit(of beginnings) bara(fattened/created) Elhim(Oxen of promise/powers) et(with) et'shamim(the heavens) wa'et(and with) ha'eretz(the earth)". 

Now this is all speculation for the most part at this time, but it would make descent sense, considering what these people actually believed... I of course will let you decide on that for yourself, but let us not forget that cultural facts were provided here, prior to the speculation, which is my original intention, and I would like to remain focused upon that.

If you wanted to understand where the Israelites viewed "Yahuah" as Duality, then here is that bit:

In the traditions of "Yahudah(real name of Judah)", they call deity many names, to convey his overarching character, there is not one name that can convey every aspect of his being, and it was believed he lives through all his creations, observable through the virtue of all life. And so, these many names where descriptors of his many characteristics, denoting aspects of human focus. They described him with dualistic names at times, as they understood, that spirit was both masculine and feminine, as a single light. Like one light represented by cloven faces, to understand the intricacies of character, and, these were indeed two faces working for the same purpose, therefore they were really one face. Remember, "Phanim", though plural is considered singular, by reason of all virtuous aspects being one. One of the feminine names, utilized was "El shaddai", which translates, "El(Ox-staff: mighty leader/might) shad(breast)+ai(my)", and in other words, "My breast of power". It was known, that "God", was like a mother, who loves her children, and so, supplements her young with the power of her breast, and this represents a person's growth, in their quest for understanding, as they drink the milk of "god".

Although he was known to be she, often times, on the surface of "Abrahamic faith", we often hear the male aspect, the simple reason for this, is it was understood, that the earth being womb and tent, was seeded and supported by the pole/phallus in the sky, we call the "sun", but namely, "Shamesh" in Semitic, meaning "[he {who's}] name [is] fire". It was thus observable, that there was more light to be seen among the stars and sun, the sky, than there is to be seen on earth, and so it was believed that deity spirit, had a concubine, the universe/earth, as the "Father Sky", to a "Mother Earth". This is why he is called "Father" so often, on the surface of faith, as the husband to earth, and the father of her children. In the deeper levels of the ancient religion, that is before modern Judaism, and after the conception of Abraham, where twelve sons lived together, and became forefathers to a nation, who had one religion, where Judah was not the only tribe of faith, and Levi was still the backbone to the nation, they believed all this, and knew "god" to be like man and woman. Their religion did not even have a mainstream name, using more than one word, to convey their faith, and practice, it was never then, called "Judaism".

All that I have told you is a privilege to know, and must not be abused. For they were a straightened path people, who did not beleive in delving into adultery, idolatry, or darkness, their deity had a dual light nature, and who's spirit could be seen inside of living stone, and therefore his light inside darkness, but he was not considered darkness, which was said to be the source of confusion, blindness and suffering. As the Oral and textual traditions of creation, says he stirred, moved, divided, and lighted the dark womb. I am not responsible for the misuse of this information, and those who do misuse, will fall headfirst, with stone tied to neck, into the dark and lonely abyss. I only share because my people's way is dying, and our secret is being forgotten. To the last of ours, they will understand all this. For you western folk, remember, you will only distort the values of this faith, unless you look through the Eastern eye, and listen.

 

Sources include:

+Jeff A. Benner, a known author/educator, who has books, a website, classes, and YouTube channel. (observes many sources and factors to come to his educated conclusions, has an in depth look into original "West Semitic" language, and leads way to old cultural philosophies) 

+Various texts relating to "Judaism", "Christianity", and the Near East ancient past: -Dead Sea scrolls -Tanakh -more complete works, partially included in the Dead Sea scrolls, found from outside sources: ~Enoch, others...

+Oral traditions in Egypt, and Near East

+Observances in the cultures of living descendants of Abraham, such as the Bedouins

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@VastLand I already showed my sources earlier in this thread. If you want to see them, find them.

I admit my interpretation may be clouded by my atheism, but yours seems clouded as well.

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6 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

@VastLand I already showed my sources earlier in this thread. If you want to see them, find them.

I admit my interpretation may be clouded by my atheism, but yours seems clouded as well.

my vision of it, is directly linked to the language and philosophy of Ancient semites

have you taken the time to read her through? 

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11 minutes ago, VastLand said:

Where are you getting your information?

A study of the more original Semitic language of the "Hebrews", West Semitic, shows this claim to be false.

Elohim, is the two conjoined words "Eloh-im", "Im", being a suffix, noting plurality, in a specific sense. "Im", comes from the two letters, "Yad and Meym", the pictograms of both a "Arm and Hand", and "water", in that order.

There are at least two suffix that note plurality, in West Semitic, one of these, "I(ee)", a suffix that notes a single "clan", usually detailing a smaller group, as the "Arm and Hand", extends out from the body, and stretches into five fingers; just like a single father may raise many children, as an extension of his single self. The arm represents the father, the fingers his extensive sons...; and the next suffix, already aforementioned, "Im(eem/yam)", noting a more vast plurality, like a "nation", consisting of multiple clans, and thence notes larger groups. The pictogram of "Im" is the depiction of a "waterway extending broadly", like a "River", or "Sea", and represents, more abstractly, a "Nation", like the "single father who has children without count, a sea". What "Im" then notes, is a plurality much more than two, or five, but enormous, without count.

Elohim, is actually not the original word for "One god", and was not used to denote "God", but more like, "Gods". Although, the singular of the word, does not really translate to "God" at all, this is actually just an interpretation, from English speakers. The more literal translation, to English, would be more like so: El(Mighty shephard/ Ox of authority)-uh(bond+another[fem] )-im(nation), and if we may refine this word, "Nation of [she] mighty shephards of promise", or "Nation of ox who yokes with another[fem]" . Even the root word to "Eloh", which is "Elah", has an extended meaning, translating as, "promise", or "Oath". As it was once understood, among the culture and people of "Yesrael", that when you have oxen plow a field, you put one experienced ox with a younger ox, both "Yoked" together, the older being more experienced, is the teacher, and authority over the younger. It was said, that the oath with men, or "god", was very much the same thing, where a person of "Authority", yoked themselves in an oath, with another, arriving to a destination. Furthermore, Elohim, can more simply be translated, "Powers", as the extended meaning of the literality, is "the power or might of one who rules or teaches", as "One who yokes with another", has power over the younger other.

Now, the problem with western interpretations of the "Abrahamic religion", or language, is, they interpret from their western philosophy, which itself, works as an entirely different system of thought. To truly understand the culture and religion of Eastern people, namely, Israel, we need to interpret from an Eastern philosophy. As, Western philosophy is based upon the greek perspective, of abstracts and appearances; the Eastern philosophy is based upon concretes and functions. In other words, Western thought judges by how something looks to be, while Eastern judges by how something acts to be. In the languages of Western thought, words are typically abstract from the start, conveying concepts that cannot be sensed by any of the external senses, that is, they are not anything you can typically see, hear, smell, taste or touch. However, in the Eastern languages, words are typically concrete from the start, conveying concepts that can be sensed by sight, hearing, smell, taste, or touch. As an example, the word "Aph", literally means "Ox-tent vent", and translates as "Nose", as the "vent in the face of the Ox", and this word, starting from a concrete thing, a nose, which you can feel, and see, can extend into an abstract meaning, "Anger"; as a "person who becomes angry, flairs his nostrils".

And so, Elohim, does not denote any bisexuality or duality, but rather a full circle, of many expressions, without number; that is all manner of attributes and characteristics. In a Eastern perspective, the "Abrahamic religion" and language, are quite different than many suspect. 

There are old Oral traditions, that were kept among the "Kohen-im", and were passed down to the people, in the allotted season and holy day, which are in modern day, transcribed into writing, and here, English translators make the mistake of interpreting in western philosophy, the texts, which causes a loss in the original meaning of these texts, and even error in translation. To understand how "Yesrael" or an "Abrahamic" nations viewed their deity, we must ask them, not their Western neighbors, not ourselves, but the ones who descend from and understand their own philosophy from how it was founded.

The Israelites believed there was one powerful spirit, who caused all darkness to stir into motion, and united all living things, causing stone to live. There was a "singularity", that could be observed through "plurality", in the sense that all life were simply mixtures of light and of dark, expressing aspects of his divine nature. Through nature, and the stars, we began to watch his character play out, expressing in the form of actions, or deeds, as the virtue of all creatures, which revealed who he was. He was therefore defined by man, through all life's actions. Therefore, his spirit was really all and one, simultaneously, as one unified "Wind", and "Fire", making move the stone womb of the universe.

Now then, the word Elohim, is denoting the Malak(Semitic for Messengers, and in Greek Angelos), like stars, as expressions of the one spirit. Thus in the beginning, the one "wind" stirred all life into motion through the "powers". For, the very same Israelites believed that all the stars were one in spirit, as many powers, unified as one power. There is an old oral tradition of this, and although I do not possess the exact story, it goes something like this: The great and expansive world around you, even as far as the stars, is like a sea, where you never see the end, around and below you. She is a great womb, who receives the seed from her husband, and within her, is brought all life, into motion, as living stone. Here the children of the "Wind" will eat, grow, walk, and finally fly, so that they be born of her womb, as the stars. For the great world, we call womb, is like a massive tent, which conceals her family in the heat of the day, so that when the children look up, at the ceiling of her, they see the great "Sun", shining his hot rays, through her fabric, as twinkling stars. 

And so, it was believed that the stars were all actually just portions of one great star that we could see through the tent fabric of the universe. The Abrahamic peoples, dwelled in tents, that were made of goat hair, woven in crosshatched pattern, so that, if you were inside during the "heat of the day(Midday)" and you looked up at the ceiling, you would see the sun shining through the fabric, as twinkling beams of light, which resembled stars, in a functional way. Thus, the people believed that all stars were expressions, or many faces, of one great face. This is why Elohim, in modern era, is considered singular, and this is why "Phanim(faces)", is also considered singular.

 

In terms of the Bereshit, or beginnings, in English bibles, called "Genesis", the word Elohim, from an Eastern man's perspective, who has been educated of his people's way, will read it as the many powers, of one power. The problem here is that great empires like Babylon, and Rome, did their best to confiscate relics, and destroy/abduct knowledge keepers, so that they may make the people ignorant of their origins, and thus make them dependent on the empire. We have seen this again and again with Native American peoples, and the USA. Oh, by the way, there is speculation that even the "Hebrew" Bible, has undergone textual changes throughout the thousands of years, and this is evidenced, with the differences in the Samaritan bible to that of the Jewish bible, and the numerous dead sea scrolls, also in comparison to the current accepted Jewish texts. For example, the Book of Jubilee, being both a dead sea scroll, and from other sources, has many added details in a series of events, involved with the stories of key figures, of the genealogies, which entail reasons by which certain names and practices exist to this day among the "Yahudim", which the standard "Jewish bible", cannot account for...

Perhaps, the original text of Bereshit started with an A, or "Aleph", instead of a B, or "Beyt", as the Semitic language, is inexplicably linked to the philosophy of the people (all languages are directly linked to their cultures philosophy), and being intertwined, served as a symbolic representation of the "word" spoken of "God". Why would the beginning text start with the second letter, when the "Aleph" is known to be a pictogram of the "Ox", representing, the "first" animal you would pick to plough your field, as he is the "strong"est animal, and would "begin" the ploughing from start to the finished destination. This is what some say, and it does make a bit of sense; if we then make "Bereshit", "Ab-ereshit", the text may change as follows: from, "Berashit(In the beginning) bara(fattened/created) Elhim(Oxen of promise/powers) et(ox-destine/with)  ha'shemim(the fiery sea/the heavens) wa'et(and with) ha'eretz(the earth)", to "Ab(father) rashit(of beginnings) bara(fattened/created) Elhim(Oxen of promise/powers) et(with) et'shamim(the heavens) wa'et(and with) ha'eretz(the earth)". 

Now this is all speculation for the most part at this time, but it would make descent sense, considering what these people actually believed... I of course will let you decide on that for yourself, but let us not forget that cultural facts were provided here, prior to the speculation, which is my original intention, and I would like to remain focused upon that.

If you wanted to understand where the Israelites viewed "Yahuah" as Duality, then here is that bit:

In the traditions of "Yahudah(real name of Judah)", they call deity many names, to convey his overarching character, there is not one name that can convey every aspect of his being, and it was believed he lives through all his creations, observable through the virtue of all life. And so, these many names where descriptors of his many characteristics, denoting aspects of human focus. They described him with dualistic names at times, as they understood, that spirit was both masculine and feminine, as a single light. Like one light represented by cloven faces, to understand the intricacies of character, and, these were indeed two faces working for the same purpose, therefore they were really one face. Remember, "Phanim", though plural is considered singular, by reason of all virtuous aspects being one. One of the feminine names, utilized was "El shaddai", which translates, "El(Ox-staff: mighty leader/might) shad(breast)+ai(my)", and in other words, "My breast of power". It was known, that "God", was like a mother, who loves her children, and so, supplements her young with the power of her breast, and this represents a person's growth, in their quest for understanding, as they drink the milk of "god".

Although he was known to be she, often times, on the surface of "Abrahamic faith", we often hear the male aspect, the simple reason for this, is it was understood, that the earth being womb and tent, was seeded and supported by the pole/phallus in the sky, we call the "sun", but namely, "Shamesh" in Semitic, meaning "[he {who's}] name [is] fire". It was thus observable, that there was more light to be seen among the stars and sun, the sky, than there is to be seen on earth, and so it was believed that deity spirit, had a concubine, the universe/earth, as the "Father Sky", to a "Mother Earth". This is why he is called "Father" so often, on the surface of faith, as the husband to earth, and the father of her children. In the deeper levels of the ancient religion, that is before modern Judaism, and after the conception of Abraham, where twelve sons lived together, and became forefathers to a nation, who had one religion, where Judah was not the only tribe of faith, and Levi was still the backbone to the nation, they believed all this, and knew "god" to be like man and woman. Their religion did not even have a mainstream name, using more than one word, to convey their faith, and practice, it was never then, called "Judaism".

All that I have told you is a privilege to know, and must not be abused. For they were a straightened path people, who did not beleive in delving into adultery, idolatry, or darkness, their deity had a dual light nature, and who's spirit could be seen inside of living stone, and therefore his light inside darkness, but he was not considered darkness, which was said to be the source of confusion, blindness and suffering. As the Oral and textual traditions of creation, says he stirred, moved, divided, and lighted the dark womb. I am not responsible for the misuse of this information, and those who do misuse, will fall headfirst, with stone tied to neck, into the dark and lonely abyss. I only share because my people's way is dying, and our secret is being forgotten. To the last of ours, they will understand all this. For you western folk, remember, you will only distort the values of this faith, unless you look through the Eastern eye, and listen.

 

Sources include:

+Jeff A. Benner, a known author/educator, who has books, a website, classes, and YouTube channel. (observes many sources and factors to come to his educated conclusions, has an in depth look into original "West Semitic" language, and leads way to old cultural philosophies) 

+Various texts relating to "Judaism", "Christianity", and the Near East ancient past: -Dead Sea scrolls -Tanakh -more complete works, partially included in the Dead Sea scrolls, found from outside sources: ~Enoch, others...

+Oral traditions in Egypt, and Near East

+Observances in the cultures of living descendants of Abraham, such as the Bedouins

Jeeze!!! 

This is the only thing which makes sense

Bereshit (sic)

 

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30 minutes ago, VastLand said:

have you taken the time to read her through?

I guess I don't care enough about ancient delusions to study them that hard.

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4 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

I guess I don't care enough about ancient delusions to study them that hard.

then you learned nothing about interpretations. So what is the point of this thread at all?

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4 minutes ago, VastLand said:

then you learned nothing about interpretations

Yeah, funny thing about that. You can always find something to justify anything you wish to do. Because you've fit it to your narrative. Not like religion does that:whistle:

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1 minute ago, VastLand said:

then you learned nothing about interpretations. So what is the point of this thread at all?

Well, according to my sources, Elohim is plural and bi-gender. So I guess I just wanted to point that out, to those who think the Bible always speaks of God as one single entity.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/28/2019 at 6:22 PM, sci-nerd said:

Elohim is the original Hebrew name for God. It means "the transsexual god". The god who has two genders.

In Genesis the transsexual God said:

US! Not "me", but us!

Besides, "Elohim" is plural, so "one God" fails from the beginning.

Is anything in the Abrahamic religions coherent?

Strictly speaking, Elohim (אלהים) means "gods". At some time between the late Israelite period (circa 8th Century BCE) and the early Exilic period (6th Century BCE) the word was adapted to become a pluralis maiestatis, a "royal we". This was likely in response to the increasing prevalence of monolatrism in Hebraic religion during that period. So it went from being a plural to being an intensification. There were indeed genderfluid and androgynous deities in the ancient Near East (Adam, the first man character, for example, was originally an androgyne god), and monolatrist Judaism of the Exilic period and later indeed assimilated aspects of both masculine and feminine deities into the singular national G-d, but the word Elohim alone doesn't signify such a thing.

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