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Desertrat56
13 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

This thread isn't about traditional Jewish philosophy, but about the origin of the Hebrew(?) deity/deities "Elohim", that eventually lead to Judaism.

That is a non-answer.  I, too, want to know how the hebrew god being hermaphroditic.

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sci-nerd
On 30.5.2019 at 6:56 AM, Golden Duck said:

it is pointed out that Genesis was written much later than the rest of the Torah.

According to wikipedia, the Torah (including Genesis) was written between 538-330 BC. The Tanakh as a whole spands from 745-4 BC. So it's written in the chronological middle of the period.

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sci-nerd
Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

That is a non-answer.  I, too, want to know how the hebrew god being hermaphroditic.

Just to be clear about the technicality of my choice of words in this thread: Hermaphroditic or transsexual are modern terms that describes a dual gender person. Either the genders are both visible or they are manifested as one external and one internal. And since the Jews ended up making God a male, I chose the word transsexual instead of hermaphrodite.

You guys are obviously too lazy to google, so let me start it for ya :tu:

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/articles_nature.html

https://heavennet.net/forums/topic/elohim-has-two-essences-male-and-female/

There is also the interpretation that Elohim is two gods: Father and Mother

http://www.truthofgodthemother.com/where-is-elohim-god-in-the-bible/

There are probably many more, but y'all have to dig yourself, if you want that.

Edited by sci-nerd
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Desertrat56

It looks like your original post was stating that Elohim is multiple gods so why do you insist that it is one transgender god?  Make up your mind.  Thanks for the non wikipedia links.

 

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sci-nerd
Just now, Desertrat56 said:

It looks like your original post was stating that Elohim is multiple gods so why do you insist that it is one transgender god?  Make up your mind.  Thanks for the non wikipedia links.

We'll it's not my mind to make up. The Tanakh says both.

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Desertrat56
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

We'll it's not my mind to make up. The Tanakh says both.

That is translated, so maybe there are words that don't translate properly into english.

Also, I am confused about the whole point of this thread.   What is it you want to discuss?

Edited by Desertrat56
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sci-nerd
3 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

That is translated, so maybe there are words that don't translate properly into english.

Also, I am confused about the whole point of this thread.   What is it you want to discuss?

The best translation I can come to, when I compare all sources is: The gods of both male and female attributes. And that's just simple polytheism.

My point with this thread was to point out (and discuss) that modern monotheism is based on either a dual gender god or polytheism.

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Desertrat56
6 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

The best translation I can come to, when I compare all sources is: The gods of both male and female attributes. And that's just simple polytheism.

My point with this thread was to point out (and discuss) that modern monotheism is based on either a dual gender god or polytheism.

OK.  I get it.  I still think it is based on one jealous 'god' demading it's worshipers only worship it and no other god.  I don't trust any of the judaic dogma no matter which sect it is.  Mohamed's story is very similar to the King Arthur myth but there is written history so it did happen, however, he was not a profit until years after his death and it is obvious that was done in order to keep the tribes together as he was the glue that held them together.  Falling apart would have been disastrous for them and it has eventually become that way.  The same reason the romans created the christian religion and made it theirs, to keep the empire from dissipating.

I think I said this once before, I really thing all the gods from mythology were something akin to the slave masters in the Star Gate series (movie and television) whether they were from outer space of just advanced earth beings is not discernible, no proof either way.

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cormac mac airt
2 hours ago, sci-nerd said:

The best translation I can come to, when I compare all sources is: The gods of both male and female attributes. And that's just simple polytheism.

My point with this thread was to point out (and discuss) that modern monotheism is based on either a dual gender god or polytheism.

Evidence suggests the latter. First polytheistic within one pantheon then merged with another pantheon to eventually become monotheistic. 

cormac

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Podo
On 5/28/2019 at 7:31 PM, Jodie.Lynne said:

Wait a second.....

 

I have a god?

 

In Hindu belief, there is a version of Shive depicted as half man, half woman, know as Ardhanari Shiva, the "Lord who is half Woman".

Norse heathenry has Loki, who changes gender frequently. There's also Nerthus, the Earth-deity, which had aspects of both the divine mother and father. Nerthus may be the progenitor deity that became Freyj and Freyja, as its twin aspects were further developed.

In Hinduism, there's also male worshipers of the divine feminine who thought-form imagine themselves as women and have female dress/manners to better portray themselves as brides of Krishna.

In some parts of ancient Ireland, celts crossdressed on Samhain (halloween, now) to trick the spirits, and to experience the light/dark/male/female dichotomy more fully.

I'm sure there are more. It's only abrahamic right-wing shitbags that deny you your validity.

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Jodie.Lynne
7 hours ago, sci-nerd said:

Hermaphroditic or transsexual are modern terms that describes a dual gender person.

Incorrect.

A hermaphrodite is a person born with both male & female primary genitalia. Secondary sexual characteristics may, or may not develop, depending on which gender was assigned at birth. Usually by a surgical procedure. Also, as a bit of trivia: most true hermaphrodites usually turn out impotent, or barren.

 

Now, firstly, the term 'transsexual' is a somewhat outdated term, the preferred label is 'transgendered'. The definitions are the same, but it is akin to calling a dark skinned individual the "N word", or African-American.   Secondly, while it may be appropriate to call Transgendered people "Two Spirit People", it is a fact that most TG's are born with all the physical characteristics of ONE gender. It is the psychological and emotional components that cause gender dysphoria in the afflicted individual.
 

Quote

 

Definition of transsexual

: of, relating to, or being a person whose gender identity is opposite the sex the person had or was identified as having at birth

Note: Transsexual people may or may not undergo surgery and hormone therapy to obtain a physical appearance typical of the gender they identify as.

 

Quote

 

Definition of hermaphrodite

 (Entry 1 of 2)

1 : an animal or plant having both male and female reproductive tissue or organs

2 : something that is a combination of diverse elements

hermaphrodite

adjective

Definition of hermaphrodite (Entry 2 of 2)

: possessing both male and female reproductive organs, structures, or tissue

 

Neither of these terms are what you are looking for in your descriptor for 'god'. You want to use the neuter term to describe this 'supreme force'.

 

Question:

Is gravity male or female?

Acceleration?

Earthquakes?

Tsunami, hurricanes, tornados? 

While we do assign male & female names to hurricanes, they, in fact, have no gender. The names are merely for record keeping purposes.

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Coil
Posted (edited)
On 5/30/2019 at 7:56 AM, Golden Duck said:

Maybe it wasn't God at all!

In tracing the development of 'satan' - from verb to manifestation - it is pointed out that Genesis was written much later than the rest of the Torah.  In the second account of creation we see the manifestation of temptation in the form of the serpent.

If you are interested, then the Serpent itself is the force of evolution that has enticed Adam and Eve to gaining the mind, so everything turns out the opposite: The serpent is evolution and Jehovah is an evolutionary brake, pretending to be God.Therefore, it is logical that from the point of view of Christianity, the Serpent is a temptation but in reality it is the power of evolution.

Christians were mistaken thinking that once they lost Paradise, it was the greatest catastrophe of “God’s disobedience” that led to all troubles, yes it was so, paradise ended, but if it were not for the Serpent we would still be in an animal-joyful state.

On 5/31/2019 at 5:51 PM, sci-nerd said:

And since the Jews ended up making God a male, I chose the word transsexual instead of hermaphrodite.


Gods must be bisexual or hermaphroditic to be able to manifest feminine and masculine but if a person in life tries to play on the opposite sex, then he will inevitably fail because we are not gods but people. And karma can play a joke for such people when she-male is born (a woman with male sexual organ and judging by messages from forums from people with such problems they are unhappy in life)

God himself is higher than dualities, so even though there is a Divine Mother from which all beings descended and gods, God-Absolute in Hinduism, neuter gender, It or highest TAT and apparently in order to manifest  all kinds of creatures masculine and feminine it is logical that potentially there should be a different set of all sexes.

That in religions is taken for God- this is a set of higher and lower creator gods.

See structure of universe(my post 49, spoiler)

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/325854-the-serpent-the-cross-are-connected/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-6678477

 

Edited by Coil

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Jodie.Lynne
10 hours ago, Coil said:

And karma can play a joke for such people when she-male is born (a woman with male sexual organ and judging by messages from forums from people with such problems they are unhappy in life)

Just for the record, the term 'she-male' is considered a derogatory term by members of the transgender community, due to being associated with the porn industry.

The preferred term is transgendered woman for MtF, and transgendered man for FtM. Or better yet 'woman' or 'man'.

 

As for this part:

Quote

from people with such problems they are unhappy in life

You are correct, the pain and suffering from gender dysphoria, as well as the constant emotional strain from pretending to be something you aren't makes one unhappy.

However, embracing the real 'you', makes one happier, even if there is a cost to one's own self satisfaction. It doesn't mean that the rest of your life will be 'happier ever after', but it helps when you can look in the mirror and not hate the person looking back.

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

However, embracing the real 'you', makes one happier

Wow. Does everyone want me to be a cynical and sarcastic? I mean if I wanted to be myself. That no-nonsense approach would make me hated even more. There is no real you. You are a mental construct of something you consider your-self. The self is pretty much play-dough. You are a habit of self. 

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Jodie.Lynne

@XenoFish

I think you might be confusing 'attitude & demeanor' with 'self identity'.

When you were born, no one slapped a label on you saying 'sarcastic & cynical', yes?

Throughout your life, did people and society say "You are cynical & sarcastic, these are the things you must do in order to be "C&S"?

 

I'm not looking to sound like a SJW, but in a way, your response is typical of people who cannot grasp what a transperson has to deal with. And I am not saying that in some sort of smug "You don't know" way, but it is really very difficult for non dysphoric people to understand because those people are completely in synch, their physical & mental image of their gender is aligned. There is no conflict between what others see, and what you feel about yourself. 

 

I'm perhaps phrasing this badly, but I don't want to present walls of text. 

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XenoFish

My middle kid is trans. No one asks how the parents feel. Ever. 

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Jodie.Lynne
10 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

My middle kid is trans. No one asks how the parents feel. Ever. 

Then you don't have a proper support network.

The trans community near me is very inclusive, towards all the members of a family.

The problem is that most families don't understand, or don't seem to want understand.

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XenoFish
8 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Then you don't have a proper support network.

The trans community near me is very inclusive, towards all the members of a family.

The problem is that most families don't understand, or don't seem to want understand.

Don't worry. I've accepted my "daughters" death. It isn't my life to live, but I miss my little girl. Label me a hater if you wish. I don't care anymore. Put me on ignore if you want as well. 

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Jodie.Lynne
11 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Put me on ignore if you want as well. 

Why would I do that?

And why would I think you were a hater?

Hopefully, you have a relationship with your son?

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XenoFish

Let us get back on topic. I don't feel like dealing with any demons today. 

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FFA
 

 

I find this post very interesting in that my view of Genesis is a little different than most. I have spent countless hours studying Genesis and there is more going in this book than your conventional Christian realizes. I have never heard Elohim translated that way before but always felt that there is something to this.

I believe Genesis is read wrong and that there was an initial creation event and then a recreation event. The initial creation event corresponds to Genesis 1, Genesis 2:4 – Genesis 4:26. This creation corresponds to Ellohim. Notice before Eve was removed from Adam there was no woman. I believe man was androgynous before that point. This is why I think man was originally neither male nor female and was created that way.

This creation falls in Genesis 3 and I believe other things are going on here as well with what is labeled as the devil and basically God destroys the world with a flood and the ice age etc. The God that does this is a different God and would be considered El in the new creation. Now the new creation starts in Genesis 1:2 and goes to Genesis 2:3 and also is concluded in Genesis 5. Man is remade, but as stated in Genesis 1:27 and Genesis 5:2 they are made male and female.

This can be taken to other places in the Bible. If we look at the language in Job you will see really corresponds nicely with the first creation. Notice Job 38. This is the original creation and corresponds to Genesis 1:1.  Job makes the statement three times, making the statement “man born of a woman”. Why would he say that? When was a man not born of a woman? I have listed them here.

Job 14:1, 15:14, 25:4

What is crazy if you really look at this in Genesis you will see that this is hidden in its pages. There is something to this and I really feel it was purposely mixed up to hide it.

Just be honest. I think both Gods a battling for humanity. For example, The God of the original creation viewed man in a more animalistic nature and perceives man behaving that way. This is why I think part of society adheres to collectivism in that humanity should behave as a group and as a collective. I also feel that humanity is being engineered to return to its androgynous state and why we see the transgender, homosexual and abortion movements. Yes people are born that way but have been slowly engineered to do so.

I also feel the God of the later creation has a grip on the things of humanity such a promoting the classic family in the home and the qualities of individualism.

There is so much more to this in the Bible and also around us all.

 

 
 

 

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and then
On 5/28/2019 at 7:22 PM, sci-nerd said:

Elohim is the original Hebrew name for God. It means "the transsexual god". The god who has two genders.

In Genesis the transsexual God said:

US! Not "me", but us!

Besides, "Elohim" is plural, so "one God" fails from the beginning.

Is anything in the Abrahamic religions coherent?

"Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is ONE".  Since God is spirit and not flesh, the idea of assigning ANY sexuality to God is in error.  Where did you find this idea?  

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sci-nerd
Posted (edited)
On 2.7.2019 at 2:26 PM, and then said:

"Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is ONE".  Since God is spirit and not flesh, the idea of assigning ANY sexuality to God is in error.  Where did you find this idea?  

Did you ignore this?

Quote

"Let us make humans in our image, so they look like us."
Genesis 1:26

Elohim is plural and is mentioned 2,500 times in the OT.
The exact translation of Elohim being plural and of two genders (the male and female gods) can be found many places, here are some of them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_of_God_in_Judaism#Biblical_perspectives
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/articles_nature.html
https://heavennet.net/forums/topic/elohim-has-two-essences-male-and-female/
http://www.truthofgodthemother.com/where-is-elohim-god-in-the-bible/ (Elohim as two gods, father and mother)

Edited by sci-nerd
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odas
On 28/05/2019 at 8:22 PM, sci-nerd said:

Elohim is the original Hebrew name for God. It means "the transsexual god". The god who has two genders.

In Genesis the transsexual God said:

US! Not "me", but us!

Besides, "Elohim" is plural, so "one God" fails from the beginning.

Is anything in the Abrahamic religions coherent?

Psalm 82:1

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odas
On 02/07/2019 at 8:26 AM, and then said:

"Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is ONE".  Since God is spirit and not flesh, the idea of assigning ANY sexuality to God is in error.  Where did you find this idea?  

But he sure likes to **** around with us.

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