Escalating Tariffs on Mexico - Do You Agree?

[+OverSword]

6 minutes ago, aztek said:

nope, absolutely not.  those who hire them, most of them,  build their business with them in mind, and wont hire any one with papers, or hire few for books,  how many landscape, demolition ......businesses, do you think  would  still be profitable if they had to hire people legally pay proper wage, pay all taxes and insurances? would you hire a landscaper who charges you 1000, or 2000, for the same job? would you care if cheaper one hires illegals?

So in effect you are responsible for the illegals because you're too much or a cheapskate to hire reputable landscapers huh?

 

6 minutes ago, aztek said:

No it's not and I know you're smart enough to see

I was wrong.

 

edit: the 23% of people here illegally aren't working landscaping.  There aren't that many landscaping jobs on the continent for crying out loud. 

Edited June 5, 2019 by OverSword

[aztek]

2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

So in effect you are responsible for the illegals because you're too much or a cheapskate to hire reputable landscapers huh?

 

in a way yes, but i have 0 doubt you yourself would not pay a double  price. 

Edited June 5, 2019 by aztek

[+OverSword]

Just now, aztek said:

in a way yes, bit i have 0 doubt you yourself would not pay a double  price. 

I would do it myself. I love working in the yard.

[aztek]

not to mention you don't just go to us embassy and get work visa, someone here has to provide you with a job here, guarantee your housing while you work. so unless you find someone that files your papers and gives you a job, you are not getting any work visa, not to mention most of those are meant for students, as temp jobs, or unless you are highly skilled specialist and such specialists are in short supply here.

4 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I would do it myself. I love working in the yard.

now imagine you are 30 years older, on SS, have limited income, and have a health condition that prohibits you from working in the yard.

Edited June 5, 2019 by aztek

[+OverSword]

4 minutes ago, aztek said:

not to mention you don't just go to us embassy and get work visa, someone here has to provide you with a job here, guarantee your housing while you work. so unless you find someone that files your papers and gives you a job, you are not getting any work visa, not to mention most of those are meant for students, as temp jobs, or unless you are highly skilled specialist and such specialists are in short supply here.

Change the rules.

9 minutes ago, aztek said:

now imagine you are 30 years older, on SS, have limited income, and have a health condition that prohibits you from working in the yard.

Assisted care facility. 

Let's keep in mind what Milton said about illegal workers.  It's fine as long as they don't collect benefits.  The ones working landscaping or roofing or what have you are not collecting welfare and are creating profit for their employer and do not hurt the economy.

[aztek]

17 minutes ago, OverSword said:

 

 

edit: the 23% of people here illegally aren't working landscaping.  There aren't that many landscaping jobs on the continent for crying out loud. 

so it means 77% are working landscaping?, that makes it look like quite a lot,  is landscaping all you got from my post?  how about demolition, construction, fruit stores, and many other trades.......

[+OverSword]

2 minutes ago, aztek said:

so it means 77% are working landscaping?, that makes it look like quite a lot,  is landscaping all you got from my post?  how about demolition, construction, fruit stores, and many other trades.......

As I pointed out above, as long as they are not collecting benefits then they are a boon not a drag.

[+Desertrat56]

15 minutes ago, aztek said:

not to mention you don't just go to us embassy and get work visa, someone here has to provide you with a job here, guarantee your housing while you work. so unless you find someone that files your papers and gives you a job, you are not getting any work visa, not to mention most of those are meant for students, as temp jobs, or unless you are highly skilled specialist and such specialists are in short supply here.

Or an Au Par or live in baby sitter/house keeper. 

[aztek]

9 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Change the rules.

Assisted care facility. 

Let's keep in mind what Milton said about illegal workers.  It's fine as long as they don't collect benefits.  The ones working landscaping or roofing or what have you are not collecting welfare and are creating profit for their employer and do not hurt the economy.

why??? the rules are just fine, we need to stop flow of illegals,

well if you want you are welcome to go there, i for one do not want to be there. nor i want my parents to ever go there.  not much better than prisons, if you read what is going on in such places, and if you think all are nice and clean as private also very expensive assisted care facilities, you could not be more wrong.  are you suggesting we need to limit freedom of seniors????? in the name of what, convenience of illegals???

no they do not collect welfare but it make little difference now. they are draining resources in other ways, some of such ways i listed before, remember Milton's videos are from what 30 years ago? things changed a lot

Edited June 5, 2019 by aztek

[+OverSword]

1 minute ago, aztek said:

why??? the rules are just fine, we need to stop flow of illegals,

Yes, we do.  Part of doing that is making more of the people here to work legal.  For those that aren't here legally as long as they are working and not collecting benefits, who cares?

Remember when Reagan granted amnesty to about 3 million of them?  Why would a good republican against breaking the law do such a ridiculous thing?

[aztek]

12 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Yes, we do.  Part of doing that is making more of the people here to work legal.  For those that aren't here legally as long as they are working and not collecting benefits, who cares?

Remember when Reagan granted amnesty to about 3 million of them?  Why would a good republican against breaking the law do such a ridiculous thing?

we do, every time an anchor baby is born the bill is not paid, about 6B a year,  that is why your medical insurance is high, every time an illegal steals or uses stolen identity, he creates issues for a citizen, and commits a crime,  everytime they send money out (about 50B) a year, that money comes out from our economy, but they cost us 2x as much. every time an illegal drives uninsured and crashes he costs us money and he runs from the accident scene, thus commits a crime at someones expense, they can not be id'd. we do not know who they are, and their background.

i could go on and on, but i wont, if you did not get it by now, you will not, no matter what argument and facts you are presented,  your attitude we need to change our system and way of life to accommodate illegals, i say we need to protect our system and way of life

Edited June 5, 2019 by aztek

[+OverSword]

13 minutes ago, aztek said:

your attitude we need to change our system and way of life to accommodate illegals

No.  To accommodate the economy in order to spread more prosperity to everyone rather than blowing more and more money fighting a war that can not be won.  Build a wall. Hire more border patrol.  spend literally billions of dollars for zero return.  Great plan you got.

Libertarianism.  It's the real answer.

[Big Jim]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

Issue work visas that more accurately reflect the number of jobs available for immigrants to work leaves less jobs for illegals to work, thereby cutting down the amount of people that would come here to work illegally.  It's pretty basic.  They come here because there are jobs, not to sponge.

This, along with other descriptions of a workers' Utopia, is assuming that the news about the availability of work visas reaches every village in Central America and that those who realize they don't qualify voluntarily choose to obey US law and stay home.   Your suggestions might help people who want to do things legally do it a little more conveniently but visa laws have as much chance of stopping illegals from entering as gun laws do of stopping criminals from using guns.  

[aztek]

10 minutes ago, OverSword said:

No.  To accommodate the economy in order to spread more prosperity to everyone rather than blowing more and more money fighting a war that can not be won.  Build a wall. Hire more border patrol.  spend literally billions of dollars for zero return.  Great plan you got.

Libertarianism.  It's the real answer.

we are losing hundred of billions yearly due to illegals, so  all of what you mentioned is well worth it. btw  you forgot tax evasion, only some pay tax, and you can be sure they pay bare min for tax credits. not because they are honest.  majority otoh,  get paid cash, and pay 0 taxes

Edited June 5, 2019 by aztek

[+OverSword]

6 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

This, along with other descriptions of a workers' Utopia, is assuming that the news about the availability of work visas reaches every village in Central America and that those who realize they don't qualify voluntarily choose to obey US law and stay home.   Your suggestions might help people who want to do things legally do it a little more conveniently but visa laws have as much chance of stopping illegals from entering as gun laws do of stopping criminals from using guns.  

So are you saying there are a whole bunch of work visas sitting on a shelf somewhere that aren't being used because people would rather be here illegally?

[+OverSword]

6 minutes ago, aztek said:

we are losing hundred of billions yearly due to illegals, so  all of what you mentioned is well worth it. btw  you forgot tax evasion, only some pay tax, and you can be sure they pay bare min for tax credits. not because they are honest.  majority otoh,  get paid cash, and pay 0 taxes

In my state, where we have no state income tax, they pay taxes if they buy anything. 

[Big Jim]

14 minutes ago, OverSword said:

No.  To accommodate the economy in order to spread more prosperity to everyone rather than blowing more and more money fighting a war that can not be won.  Build a wall. Hire more border patrol.  spend literally billions of dollars for zero return.  Great plan you got.

Libertarianism.  It's the real answer.

The discussion is about more than jobs.  There are many benefits to having a secure border that can't be measured in jobs and taxes.  There are no work visas issued for drug smugglers, gun runners and human traffickers.  Stopping the flow of illegals may be the current motivation but not the only reason.

[Big Jim]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

So are you saying there are a whole bunch of work visas sitting on a shelf somewhere that aren't being used because people would rather be here illegally?

Did I say that?  It must have slipped out.

[aztek]

Just now, OverSword said:

In my state, where we have no state income tax, they pay taxes if they buy anything. 

yes sales tax is not what is in question here

[+OverSword]

Just now, Big Jim said:

The discussion is about more than jobs.  There are many benefits to having a secure border that can't be measured in jobs and taxes.  There are no work visas issued for drug smugglers, gun runners and human traffickers.  Stopping the flow of illegals may be the current motivation but not the only reason.

And just think how many more resources can be applied to stopping those other reasons for having a secure border when they're not being used chasing down people who want to work.

[Big Jim]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

In my state, where we have no state income tax, they pay taxes if they buy anything. 

Your state is one of 50.  

[Big Jim]

Just now, OverSword said:

And just think how many more resources can be applied to stopping those other reasons for having a secure border when they're not being used chasing down people who want to work.

Building the wall and increasing the border patrol is a way to prevent having to chase down people.  Fix the leak first before trying to bail out the water.

 

[aztek]

4 minutes ago, OverSword said:

So are you saying there are a whole bunch of work visas sitting on a shelf somewhere that aren't being used because people would rather be here illegally?

i'm pretty sure he is saying the same thing i do, those are 2 different kind of people.  measure for one crowd has no effect on the other,

[+OverSword]

1 minute ago, Big Jim said:

Your state is one of 50.  

Two, I think. That's your problem not mine.  point is we are set up for it just fine here.  And I only have to file for one income tax.

[Big Jim]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

Two, I think. That's your problem not mine.  point is we are set up for it just fine here.  And I only have to file for one income tax.

Even two is not a solution to a national problem.  If your position is "I'm fine, no problem" why are you even in this discussion?  With an attitude like that that country could go to ruin as long as the coffee still flowed in Seattle.