Escalating Tariffs on Mexico - Do You Agree?

[aztek]

denying there is a problem, never solved any problem, it just made it worst

[+OverSword]

33 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

Even two is not a solution to a national problem.  If your position is "I'm fine, no problem" why are you even in this discussion?  With an attitude like that that country could go to ruin as long as the coffee still flowed in Seattle.

Change your states system to the one that works better. 

[aztek]

why change his? maybe we need to change yours

[Big Jim]

45 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Change your states system to the one that works better. 

Even IF we could do one per year and IF that solved the problem of illegal immigration there wouldn't be a country left to save in 2067.  The problem is now, the solution needs to be now.   You are clearly not interested in solving it, because you're fine.

[Tatetopa]

3 hours ago, aztek said:

yes, and he explains very well, why they want to be here illegally. 

You have pitched the benefits so well, one wonders why you don't go dark and illegal yourself.  Buy a fake SS number.  Work under the table for cash, stop by every shelter for free food medical care and clothing.  Man you could live like a king.  Or is that your secret?

[aztek]

5 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

You have pitched the benefits so well, one wonders why you don't go dark and illegal yourself.  Buy a fake SS number.  Work under the table for cash, stop by every shelter for free food medical care and clothing.  Man you could live like a king.  Or is that your secret?

lol, i'll  keep that in mind,

Edited June 5, 2019 by aztek

[Tatetopa]

2 hours ago, aztek said:

in a way yes, but i have 0 doubt you yourself would not pay a double  price. 

I only buy what I can afford.  I don't buy tv's out of the trunk of anybody's car just because it is cheap either. 

If legal landscaping really costs too much, then turn it back over to kids.  Several of you  have mentioned that we don't teach our kids to work  anymore.  You have just tied together a solution to two of your problems.  Shut down illegal landscapers and all other illegal businesses.  Let young people fill the void and wash dishes in restaurants too. People who live all over the world and aspire to be illegals in the US can't find jobs to do it anymore because they have been replaced by kids and legal immigrants.  Shifty crooked businessmen get pushed out by honest competitors. No matter how much a person wants to be illegal to few will hire them because the certainty of enforcement and risk of serious punishment is too much to gamble.

AOK, lets repatriate (deport) illegals.  I am all for it.  Get a good functioning permit system.  Too much of a problem you say because there are so many in our system?  Well start somewhere.  Squeeze the loopholes shut.

[+OverSword]

29 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

Even IF we could do one per year and IF that solved the problem of illegal immigration there wouldn't be a country left to save in 2067.  The problem is now, the solution needs to be now.   You are clearly not interested in solving it, because you're fine.

I am clearly not interested in your losing approach to solving it.  I'm not going to reiterate how my solution would work and how it would be cheap and make everyone including migrant workers more wealthy.  You want to do something which is going to cost you a lot of money and will fail.

[Tatetopa]

3 hours ago, aztek said:

now imagine you are 30 years older, on SS, have limited income, and have a health condition that prohibits you from working in the yard.

I make my grown son do it.  He likes feeling helpful in easy ways and I promised he will never have to change my bedpan.  In return, I give him fresh fruit and vegetables, something I like to do.   Win-win.  

[aztek]

12 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

I only buy what I can afford.  I don't buy tv's out of the trunk of anybody's car just because it is cheap either. 

If legal landscaping really costs too much, then turn it back over to kids.  Several of you  have mentioned that we don't teach our kids to work  anymore.  You have just tied together a solution to two of your problems.  Shut down illegal landscapers and all other illegal businesses.  Let young people fill the void and wash dishes in restaurants too. People who live all over the world and aspire to be illegals in the US can't find jobs to do it anymore because they have been replaced by kids and legal immigrants.  Shifty crooked businessmen get pushed out by honest competitors. No matter how much a person wants to be illegal to few will hire them because the certainty of enforcement and risk of serious punishment is too much to gamble.

AOK, lets repatriate (deport) illegals.  I am all for it.  Get a good functioning permit system.  Too much of a problem you say because there are so many in our system?  Well start somewhere.  Squeeze the loopholes shut.

when we raise a generation that will be able to do those jobs, we will. current generation wants to be rappers, gangstas, and only want smoke weed, screw, do whatever they want, and demand things,     and why shouldn't they? they are raised with parents kissing their a$$es, and letting them do anything they want. they can't even punish kids, cuz school teaches them to call 911 and report child abuse, and they do it pretty often when they do not get it their way,  they could not care less about doing honest work. much less capable of being reliable.  

as for the rest, yea, sure, i'll get right on it. lol  

Edited June 5, 2019 by aztek

[aztek]

8 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

I make my grown son do it.  He likes feeling helpful in easy ways and I promised he will never have to change my bedpan.  In return, I give him fresh fruit and vegetables, something I like to do.   Win-win.  

not everyone has grown son who likes feeling helpful.  do you really think your personal example is a valid argument when we talk about entire country? 

Edited June 5, 2019 by aztek

[+Desertrat56]

9 minutes ago, aztek said:

not everyone has grown son who likes feeling helpful.  do you really think your personal example is a valid argument when we talk about entire country? 

Why?  Do you take responsibility for your son not wanting to be helpful?  Or if you don't have a son, maybe you have a neighbor with a teenager who could help.

[aztek]

13 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Why?  Do you take responsibility for your son not wanting to be helpful?  Or if you don't have a son, maybe you have a neighbor with a teenager who could help.

not sure what your point here is, not every senior has someone to help,  quite a lot actually do not,  my mother used to be a social worker for nyc, you can't imagine how many seniors live alone, have adult kids living in other states, who could not care less about them, who have not seen or talked to them in years. 

if my sons do not want to help me when i'm old and crippled it is my problem, and the way people are these days, i do not think i want them to do anything for anyone , even step on someones property.  i've seen cases where people tried to help and got sued. so no, my sons will not be moving anyone's lawns. unless it is their job and they are paid for it. no good deed goes unpunished

Edited June 5, 2019 by aztek

[Tatetopa]

3 hours ago, Big Jim said:

This, along with other descriptions of a workers' Utopia, is assuming that the news about the availability of work visas reaches every village in Central America and that those who realize they don't qualify voluntarily choose to obey US law and stay home.   Your suggestions might help people who want to do things legally do it a little more conveniently but visa laws have as much chance of stopping illegals from entering as gun laws do of stopping criminals from using guns.  

This argument keeps coming up. I think it is false and overused. 

Take TSA for example.  It is not only the people the who choose to go through  the metal detector, everybody who wants to get on the plane has to go through the metal detector.  

Build your barriers at the border.  Good, I'm OK for with that.  Stop drugs and contraband at check points, even better.   It won't stop everybody, you say.  I agree it won't , but it makes a dent.  Do they still come to work illegally?  Why?  Supply and demand.

OK, find and prosecute every tax evading, dishonest business person who hires illegals.  Shut them down.  No jobs.  You can hire another 100,000 ICE agents to track down illegals and if there is money for them to make, they will come as fast as anyone can deport them.  Stop the money.  Give our border and enforcement agents a chance.

A paradox has been brought up here.  I have heard that we have a problem with illegals.  I have heard that some businesses can only hire illegals.  How do you resolve that?  If we don't we will always have a problem.

Oversword suggests more work visas.  Why couldn't that work?

Other people advocate a living wage, $15 an hour so Americans can take those jobs and not live 30 to a house.  If you had to pay a guy making 100 burritos and tacos at Taco Bell an hour an extra $13 dollars to cover the $15 wage and some benefits, that would come out to what?  13 cents a taco.  Taco Bell could add and extra 12 cents just because they could and charge you a quarter and get away with it.  

Isn't that personal responsibility?  If you want a taco, you pay the quarter.  That way none of us get stuck with the medical bills

I hear that some jobs are too low paying and only kids living at home and earning spending money should have them.  Is that a solution?  Is our prosperity based on jobs that require indentured servants and slaves?  If so we have another problem.

I get it that you are outraged by illegals and maybe threatened too.   So, lets fix the system, because it is not OK.  Otherwise we wouldn't have this problem.

 

 

[Big Jim]

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

If legal landscaping really costs too much, then turn it back over to kids. 

I wish it were that easy.  Like Aztek has pointed out, not everyone with a home to maintain has family able or willing to help.  I would love to find a kid to help with yard chores.  I'm prepared to pay them well.  But my street has no eligible kids and it's surrounded by farm fields.  No connecting streets except a state route.  In spite of being disabled I've been able to keep up with mowing and such but I could sure use some help picking up sticks.  I don't have any flowers or shrubs because I can't use a shovel.  But in a year or two I might need even more help.  Having to pay a pro on my income would drastically alter my way of life.  Yet a nursing home is out of the question.  I would die of boredom confined in one small room.

[Big Jim]

3 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Other people advocate a living wage, $15 an hour so Americans can take those jobs and not live 30 to a house.  If you had to pay a guy making 100 burritos and tacos at Taco Bell an hour an extra $13 dollars to cover the $15 wage and some benefits, that would come out to what?  13 cents a taco.  Taco Bell could add and extra 12 cents just because they could and charge you a quarter and get away with it.  

I'm in agreement with a lot of what you say but I can only respond to so much.  Now, I'm no math expert, but what I've noticed is that at most fast food joints the price of a "value meal" approximates the minimum wage.  So I would expect that if the minimum wage goes to $15 that happy meals would follow right along and not just increase by a quarter.  The problem is that if only minimum wage goes up then fewer people will be able to afford, or be willing to pay, the increase in prices.  The joint goes out of business and we have more homeless people on the street and more competition for the remaining entry level jobs.

[Michelle]

5 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

I would love to find a kid to help with yard chores.

We've done it occasionally for certain kids who are used to the natural obstacles in the area after we have talked to their parents. About a third of our property that we keep maintained is at a 45 degree angle. It can be precarious and I would hate for them to get hurt.

[Big Jim]

11 minutes ago, Michelle said:

We've done it occasionally for certain kids who are used to the natural obstacles in the area after we have talked to their parents. About a third of our property that we keep maintained is at a 45 degree angle. It can be precarious and I would hate for them to get hurt.

I thought I had a lead.  I asked a neighbor the other day if a kid I'd seen a year ago was his son.  He seemed to be about the right age.  Nope, grandson.  Staying with them when I saw him.  Moved away shortly after.  My street has 15 houses and most residents are older.  There just aren't any kids around.

[Michelle]

3 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

I thought I had a lead.  I asked a neighbor the other day if a kid I'd seen a year ago was his son.  He seemed to be about the right age.  Nope, grandson.  Staying with them when I saw him.  Moved away shortly after.  My street has 15 houses and most residents are older.  There just aren't any kids around.

It is difficult. Either they are too young, are involved in sports, around here being involved in church programs, go to some kind of camp in the summer, not to mention helping keep their parents property maintained. If they are slackers it's too difficult a job and if they aren't they have all kinds of activities scheduled preparing them for college. It's a catch 22.

[Big Jim]

7 minutes ago, Michelle said:

It is difficult. Either they are too young, are involved in sports, around here being involved in church programs, go to some kind of camp in the summer, not to mention helping keep their parents property maintained. If they are slackers it's too difficult a job and if they aren't they have all kinds of activities scheduled preparing them for college. It's a catch 22.

The irony is that at the entrance to my street there is an official yellow sign that warns "Children Playing" but It must be 30 years old.

[Michelle]

1 minute ago, Big Jim said:

The irony is that at the entrance to my street there is an official yellow sign that warns "Children Playing" but It must be 30 years old.

We have a fairly small neighborhood too...about 45 houses. My husband and I and another friend are officially the old farts now.  As the 80 and 90 year olds passed away, went to live with children or in assisted living young couples moved in. We've had a constant supply of kids for about thirty years. Couples that started their married lives here years ago sold their kids their houses when they decided to downsize. It's like Hotel California...you can check in but you never leave.  People or their descendants tend to stay here. Everybody knows everybody and we all get along. It's great! 

[Agent0range]

2 hours ago, Big Jim said:

So I would expect that if the minimum wage goes to $15 that happy meals would follow right along and not just increase by a quarter.  

And you should expect the same to happen with tariffs.  

[+OverSword]

3 hours ago, Big Jim said:

I wish it were that easy.  Like Aztek has pointed out, not everyone with a home to maintain has family able or willing to help.  I would love to find a kid to help with yard chores.  I'm prepared to pay them well.  But my street has no eligible kids and it's surrounded by farm fields.  No connecting streets except a state route.  In spite of being disabled I've been able to keep up with mowing and such but I could sure use some help picking up sticks.  I don't have any flowers or shrubs because I can't use a shovel.  But in a year or two I might need even more help.  Having to pay a pro on my income would drastically alter my way of life.  Yet a nursing home is out of the question.  I would die of boredom confined in one small room.

Pay an illegal alien or hire their anchor baby 

[+OverSword]

2 hours ago, Big Jim said:

I'm in agreement with a lot of what you say but I can only respond to so much.  Now, I'm no math expert, but what I've noticed is that at most fast food joints the price of a "value meal" approximates the minimum wage.  So I would expect that if the minimum wage goes to $15 that happy meals would follow right along and not just increase by a quarter.  The problem is that if only minimum wage goes up then fewer people will be able to afford, or be willing to pay, the increase in prices.  The joint goes out of business and we have more homeless people on the street and more competition for the remaining entry level jobs.

Yeah, increasing minimum wage is s losing proposition. After a short time the result is the price of everything goes up and there are fewer minimum wage jobs available. At that point the $15 an hour is no longer enough to live on and people making $20 suddenly have to eat pb&j sandwiches for dinner three nights a week.

[Big Jim]

4 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Pay an illegal alien or hire their anchor baby 

Not on your life.  I'll grow hay first.