Escalating Tariffs on Mexico - Do You Agree?

[Big Jim]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

Yeah, increasing minimum wage is s losing proposition. After a short time the result is the price of everything goes up and there are fewer minimum wage jobs available. At that point the $15 an hour is no longer enough to live on and people making $20 suddenly have to eat pb&j sandwiches for dinner three nights a week.

I can see it also being a morale killer for the people who have spent years working their way up to $15 from whatever minimum wage was when they started.

[+OverSword]

14 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

I can see it also being a morale killer for the people who have spent years working their way up to $15 from whatever minimum wage was when they started.

It is a thing valued only by people with shallow understanding of economics. 

Look up a Milton Friedman video about minimum wage where he explains downside.

[Tatetopa]

3 hours ago, Big Jim said:

I wish it were that easy.  Like Aztek has pointed out, not everyone with a home to maintain has family able or willing to help.  I would love to find a kid to help with yard chores.  I'm prepared to pay them well.  But my street has no eligible kids and it's surrounded by farm fields.  No connecting streets except a state route.  In spite of being disabled I've been able to keep up with mowing and such but I could sure use some help picking up sticks.  I don't have any flowers or shrubs because I can't use a shovel.  But in a year or two I might need even more help.  Having to pay a pro on my income would drastically alter my way of life.  Yet a nursing home is out of the question.  I would die of boredom confined in one small room.

I hear you Jim and first let me say that I couldn't stand a nursing home either.  I would much sooner walk out under a tree and pass my last day in the forest.  A little hard to do though.

So, they say necessity is the mother of invention.  If we remove all of the cheap illegal help, then some bright young people have a niche to fill.  One 18 year old with a pickup could manage two or three others and split the take somehow.  I know times have changed, but we used to do stuff like that.  My grandmother's neighbor was a plumber.  He let his kid borrow the pickup on Saturdays.   He had to pay for gas.  We had two lawn movers and three boys.  He would deliver and help with sweep up and pick us up.  As mower rent, I bought gas for my dad's mower and mowed our lawn for free.  When we didn't have jobs, we drove the highway to another small town and back picking up roadside pop bottles for 2 cents each.  Really old days.  Maybe you could put an add on Craig's List or at the local churches and inspire someone to help you and start a business career.

[Tatetopa]

42 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Yeah, increasing minimum wage is s losing proposition. After a short time the result is the price of everything goes up and there are fewer minimum wage jobs available. At that point the $15 an hour is no longer enough to live on and people making $20 suddenly have to eat pb&j sandwiches for dinner three nights a week.

So do we need to keep the labor cost down with a constant flow of illegals so we can buy a Big Mac or Nacho Grande?   Maybe we middle class folks are not as well off as we thought.  I know the dilemma and I don't disagree, but how do you fill non-living wage jobs except with desperate people?  The way we do it with shirts and shoes is to hire some unseen Pakistani or Malaysian to work for three dollars a day and ship the clothes here to Walmart..

So then I ask, how are you going to afford clothes if we bring all of those jobs back to America too?  The reason we have illegals in this country  is that we can't send our lawns overseas to be mowed and we don't  want to have Amazon ship us a burger from Singapore on two day air.

[Big Jim]

17 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

I hear you Jim and first let me say that I couldn't stand a nursing home either.  I would much sooner walk out under a tree and pass my last day in the forest.  A little hard to do though.

So, they say necessity is the mother of invention.  If we remove all of the cheap illegal help, then some bright young people have a niche to fill.  One 18 year old with a pickup could manage two or three others and split the take somehow.  I know times have changed, but we used to do stuff like that.  My grandmother's neighbor was a plumber.  He let his kid borrow the pickup on Saturdays.   He had to pay for gas.  We had two lawn movers and three boys.  He would deliver and help with sweep up and pick us up.  As mower rent, I bought gas for my dad's mower and mowed our lawn for free.  When we didn't have jobs, we drove the highway to another small town and back picking up roadside pop bottles for 2 cents each.  Really old days.  Maybe you could put an add on Craig's List or at the local churches and inspire someone to help you and start a business career.

That's what I've been saying.  Whether it's mowing lawns or working at the local burger joint, it's the kids that are being shoved aside by illegals.  

You and I must be about the same age to remember collecting pop bottles for 2 cents.  I remember when they went to a nickel.  My first job was selling bingo cards when I was 10 years old.  Every Monday from 7:00 to 10:00, plus cleaning up afterwards, all for $1.00.  Then I walked home in the dark 1 1/2 miles.  Later, for a couple summers I had a steady job every Saturday working in a rich man's yard.  He paid me and a buddy minimum wage and gave us beer with lunch.  We were 15 & 16.  I never had an allowance.  If I wanted something I earned it.  Often I made it.  Your suggestion about starting a business isn't bad but I'm beyond that now.  Moving from room to room gets more difficult every day.  Hobbies and chores take up all my time.  

Edited June 6, 2019 by Big Jim
improved clarity

[+OverSword]

Not on topic but addressing some recent posts, my friends parents, in their 80’s, a retired postal worker and accounting administrator. Moved into a retirement community and I hear it’s quite nice. Not like a hospital where old people go to die, but like an apartment community with a nursing staff keeping an eye on things with plenty of social activities. 

[+OverSword]

6 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

So do we need to keep the labor cost down with a constant flow of illegals so we can buy a Big Mac or Nacho Grande?   Maybe we middle class folks are not as well off as we thought.  I know the dilemma and I don't disagree, but how do you fill non-living wage jobs except with desperate people?  The way we do it with shirts and shoes is to hire some unseen Pakistani or Malaysian to work for three dollars a day and ship the clothes here to Walmart..

So then I ask, how are you going to afford clothes if we bring all of those jobs back to America too?  The reason we have illegals in this country  is that we can't send our lawns overseas to be mowed and we don't  want to have Amazon ship us a burger from Singapore on two day air.

It is what it is. But raising the minimum wage is exactly like printing more money to pay the national debt. The result is the money is worth less and worse than that it is a death sentence to smaller businesses and lowers the number of low wage jobs. You may ask, who wants a low wage job anyway? The answer is someone who really needs one.

[Gromdor]

5 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Not on topic but addressing some recent posts, my friends parents, in their 80’s, a retired postal worker and accounting administrator. Moved into a retirement community and I hear it’s quite nice. Not like a hospital where old people go to die, but like an apartment community with a nursing staff keeping an eye on things with plenty of social activities. 

One of my aunts did a similar thing.  There comes a point when you age past your ability to take care of your house.  Places like those are designed and catered to the retirement age people.  Still able to live mostly independent but with things like lawn care and house maintenance taken care of for you.  Eighty year olds shouldn't be shoveling snow, cleaning gutters or fixing leaky roofs. 

[Tatetopa]

4 hours ago, Big Jim said:

Your suggestion about starting a business isn't bad but I'm beyond that now.  Moving from room to room gets more difficult every day.  Hobbies and chores take up all my time.  

I am there too.  I thought you might get a kid inspired, taking on another job now would be a bit much, but inspiring someone is always good if you stumble across the right kid.

[Tatetopa]

3 hours ago, OverSword said:

It is what it is. But raising the minimum wage is exactly like printing more money to pay the national debt. The result is the money is worth less and worse than that it is a death sentence to smaller businesses and lowers the number of low wage jobs. You may ask, who wants a low wage job anyway? The answer is someone who really needs one.

I get that.  Really my point is that I don't want to bring all of the low paying jobs back to America  because they can't support the standard of living we a re used to having.  Better to fill our work force with higher technology better paying jobs and buy shirts and shoes.

[kartikg]

On 6/1/2019 at 5:56 AM, Agent0range said:

No.  The fact is, there are many goods that ONLY come from Mexico.  And in cases that it doesn't, if 5% was the difference in an American company being able to sell substantially more product, they would cut prices by 5%, as the price to yield would more than make up for the difference.  Trump tries to play this off as hurting MEXICO the country, when in fact, a majority of the goods coming in are from American companies anyway...aside from produce, of course.  No matter how you spin it, this affects the COUNTRY of Mexico not at all.

I think the American companies would / should rather say to Mexico we will pay 5% less for your goods and will sell at 5% more to consumers to reap an additional 10% profit. 

[Alchopwn]

8 hours ago, OverSword said:

It is a thing valued only by people with shallow understanding of economics. 

Look up a Milton Friedman video about minimum wage where he explains downside.

While there is something to be said for an economy where an undersupply of money is driving up purchasing power, that almost never actually translates to an improvement in wages and living conditions for people actually working for a wage, as opposed to investing.  Friedman was an apologist for keeping some people very poor.  The fact is, inflation, when running at under 10% is no great evil, and in fact serves as a social equalizer, as it reduces the value of investment against actually working for a living.

[skliss]

12 hours ago, Big Jim said:

I wish it were that easy.  Like Aztek has pointed out, not everyone with a home to maintain has family able or willing to help.  I would love to find a kid to help with yard chores.  I'm prepared to pay them well.  But my street has no eligible kids and it's surrounded by farm fields.  No connecting streets except a state route.  In spite of being disabled I've been able to keep up with mowing and such but I could sure use some help picking up sticks.  I don't have any flowers or shrubs because I can't use a shovel.  But in a year or two I might need even more help.  Having to pay a pro on my income would drastically alter my way of life.  Yet a nursing home is out of the question.  I would die of boredom confined in one small room.

Doesn't have to be a kid....My sister-in-law has been mowing for some elderly people in her neighborhood. She loves being outside and doing it, they pay her some small fee and both are happy. Shes not working at the moment so mowing a few yards allows her to stay home with my school age niece for the summer and make a few bucks for the family. Next time you see a nearby person out mowing stop and ask if they are interested...maybe they are or know someone who might be..ya never know.

Edited June 6, 2019 by skliss
Extra word

[Gromdor]

41 minutes ago, kartikg said:

I think the American companies would / should rather say to Mexico we will pay 5% less for your goods and will sell at 5% more to consumers to reap an additional 10% profit. 

American companies are the ones that own the factories down there in many cases. (Ford, Caterpillar, etc.) http://tacna.net/companies-succeeding-in-mexico/

 

[Myles]

8 hours ago, OverSword said:

It is what it is. But raising the minimum wage is exactly like printing more money to pay the national debt. The result is the money is worth less and worse than that it is a death sentence to smaller businesses and lowers the number of low wage jobs. You may ask, who wants a low wage job anyway? The answer is someone who really needs one.

The only fair way I see of raising the min wage is to do it on a long term basis.   Maybe $.50 initially and $.25 each year after for a number of years.   Let people and businesses adjust slowly and be kind to those who are already making over minimum wage.   I remember working my tail off to get raises to bring me $3 or $4 over minimum.   What a bummer if everyone just instantly caught up to me.  

[Gromdor]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

The only fair way I see of raising the min wage is to do it on a long term basis.   Maybe $.50 initially and $.25 each year after for a number of years.   Let people and businesses adjust slowly and be kind to those who are already making over minimum wage.   I remember working my tail off to get raises to bring me $3 or $4 over minimum.   What a bummer if everyone just instantly caught up to me.  

I'd be more bummed if I worked my tail off for years and was still below poverty level.  It would be pretty obvious to me that my job wasn't a "starter" or a "stepping stone" job in my life and was in fact my career.  I can't really blame other people for wanting to raise the minimum wage to get me off the rolls of those requiring government assistance either in that case either.  It's just another form of tax payer subsidized cheap labor at that point anyways.

[Myles]

1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

I'd be more bummed if I worked my tail off for years and was still below poverty level.  

Some of that would be on the person.   I was smart enough not to work a minimum wage paying job for long.  I do remember in my progression, working for $14 an hour in a second shift warehouse job.   I started at $11 an hour and worked my tail off to get to $14 after a few years.   Had the min wage been increased to $15, I would not have been given a raise to $20.75.   I would have lost in the deal.   

[+OverSword]

7 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

I get that.  Really my point is that I don't want to bring all of the low paying jobs back to America  because they can't support the standard of living we a re used to having.  Better to fill our work force with higher technology better paying jobs and buy shirts and shoes.

It’s not a matter of bringing jobs back. It’s about saving small businesses from going under due to regulations imposed by well meaning buerocrats. Not everyone is suited to a tech job and maybe some people enjoy their job at novelty t-shirt store or fro yo shop that will never survive paying employees $15 an hour. 

[+Desertrat56]

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/news/small-businesses-hit-by-tariffs-5018018/

Small Business Hit By Tarrifs

If the proposed 5% tariff on goods coming in from Mexico is put into place, small businesses would be hit hardest, according to recent reports. The majority of businesses that import goods from Mexico have fewer than 50 employees, according to data from the Small Business & Entrepreneurship Council. It can take months to find and secure a new supplier and many are instead passing the extra costs on to consumers.

---

[aztek]

nothing wrong with that.  how come i never see such articles,and opposition when taxes, and licensing fees go up?

[+Desertrat56]

1 hour ago, aztek said:

nothing wrong with that.  how come i never see such articles,and opposition when taxes, and licensing fees go up?

Maybe you aren't looking in the right place.

[aztek]

2 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Maybe you aren't looking in the right place.

are you? show me.

[+Desertrat56]

6 minutes ago, aztek said:

are you? show me.

I typed in "how do increasing taxes and rising license fees affect small business" and got hits, here are two.  Try it yourself you might be surprised.

https://www.inc.com/gene-marks/4-huge-tax-increases-that-could-affect-your-business.html

https://www.sapling.com/8592993/do-taxes-affect-business-cycle

I will let you read them yourself and maybe you can find more.

 

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by Desertrat56

[aztek]

41 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I typed in "how do increasing taxes and rising license fees affect small business" and got hits, here are two.  Try it yourself you might be surprised.

https://www.inc.com/gene-marks/4-huge-tax-increases-that-could-affect-your-business.html

https://www.sapling.com/8592993/do-taxes-affect-business-cycle

I will let you read them yourself and maybe you can find more.

 

 

yea i know how to google too,   yet not a single thread about it here, which was my point, not that they do not exist at all.  

[+Desertrat56]

30 minutes ago, aztek said:

yea i know how to google too,   yet not a single thread about it here, which was my point, not that they do not exist at all.  

Well, that isn't what you said.  Makes more sense, I thought you were being a troll.  Anyway, maybe there aren't very many small business owners that have time to post anything on a forum like this.  And it isn't exactly an unexplained phenomenon.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Desertrat56